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New Dev Blog: Player-owned Customs Office

First post First post
Author
Farnfax
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
#381 - 2011-10-18 17:48:59 UTC
Well I guess this will once again exclude the single players and small corporations for doing PI in lowsec. I think a lot of changes could make PI better, like being able to contract materials in and out of a Customs Office, but this idea may force me to give up doing PI and T2 production.

Rek Seven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#382 - 2011-10-18 17:49:09 UTC
Dominus Alterai wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Dominus Alterai wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Holy One wrote:
Well thats the end of PI for me then. I cba with all that bollocks. I did/do PI because it represents the least waste of my time for the most return.

I guess I'll just go do incursions like everyone else.

Anyone want to buy 5 PI alts? Evemail me.


lol you mean you took the time to train up 5 characters and you are now willing to give up at the drop of a hat? i think you are just overreacting for the sake of it... Solution to your problem - put your alts in a corp that holds customs offices and dry your tears.


Corps/alliances that can safely hold POCOs, aka 500+ member alliances, usually don't allow alts in other alliances without standings. I know that for a fact because I've had alts in a few of them...which were promptly kicked once they found out.


In this case having your alts in their corp will be an advantage as the planet tax will be going to them and not concord.


You've never been to 0.0 have you? Almost all alliances set tax rate at their stations for alliance members to 0%. That includes reprocessing and and market tax.


I'm sorry, did CCP say you can set a different tax rate for corp and the public? i must have missed that. if so i think that's a good thing. Either way, i'll be glad if pp stop doing PI because of this, as it means i'll get over 9000 isk for my coolant again Big smile
Dominus Alterai
Star Freaks
#383 - 2011-10-18 17:49:20 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
so this is the start of your dust-eve link?

fighting over pos fuel...lmfao

i gave up smoking weed a while ago, but can you pass round whatever you have been smoking at the CCP office please, cos id bet its some good ****.


fighting over pos fuell.. cant get over that, too funny


"Just walk away. You can put a stop to all of this. Just walk away, and spare your lives."

Reducing your holes to a quivering mess since 2009.

Holy One
Privat Party
#384 - 2011-10-18 17:49:21 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Holy One wrote:
Well thats the end of PI for me then. I cba with all that bollocks. I did/do PI because it represents the least waste of my time for the most return.

I guess I'll just go do incursions like everyone else.

Anyone want to buy 5 PI alts? Evemail me.


lol you mean you took the time to train up 5 characters and you are now willing to give up at the drop of a hat? i think you are just overreacting for the sake of it... Solution to your problem - put your alts in a corp that holds customs offices and dry your tears.



I already have a full time job bro, I just don't need that extra level of hassle and micro tedium (its already incredibly boring and time consuming/risky enough farming planets in low and null). PI was accessible and easy to get in to. Now its not going to be. I don't have the time or the inclination to faff with that. Given there are several easier ways to make isk, which do not require loads of alts, I'm not gonna go there.

Also, since I will no longer have a use for all these PI alts, which I will be selling, that's CCP out 3 plexes every month. I hope that is something they're happy about. Cos I won't be the only one who decided, along with supers, that they can no longer justify the expense of additional accounts/characters for such little 'fun' or 'reward'. Since those accounts were paid for with plex ( in my case) and there is no desire to pay real money to keep them going, then they close.

We knew PI conflict was coming, but I don't think turning all my jew golds in to a POS anyone can blow up or exclude me from unless I have a 5000 man alliance to back me up, was what we were expecting.

C'est la vie and .. toodles!

:)

Dominus Alterai
Star Freaks
#385 - 2011-10-18 17:49:50 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
so this is the start of your dust-eve link?

fighting over pos fuel...lmfao

i gave up smoking weed a while ago, but can you pass round whatever you have been smoking at the CCP office please, cos id bet its some good ****.


fighting over pos fuell.. cant get over that, too funny


"Just walk away. You can put a stop to all of this. Just walk away, and spare your lives."

Reducing your holes to a quivering mess since 2009.

Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
#386 - 2011-10-18 17:51:39 UTC
Liandra Xi wrote:
Chaos Incarnate wrote:
Jake Centauri wrote:
The combat players love the change. The industrial players hate it. That about sums it up.


No, the combat players hate it too because it involves more shooting at structures with tons of hp, ie that thing we already hate about sov warfare and POSs


Except you don't have to attack them, you could just use your own to generate fights when someone else comes to attack them. No-one is forcing you to attack others CO's unless you want to generate fights that way. C'mon you seriously trying to say CCP gives us crops to burn and PVP'ers are not going to like it? Man what are you smoking?


It's not 'burning crops' if it takes a day and a half and a twenty-man fleet to kill one of them in a timely fashion, it's POS warfare all over again. Zzz.
Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions
#387 - 2011-10-18 17:51:42 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
[quote=Dominus Alterai][quote=Holy One]
stuff


9k is a conservative estimate.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#388 - 2011-10-18 17:52:05 UTC
This is a great idea. The structure doesn't have too much EHP compared to all of the sov structures, making it a good target for bored small gangs. It also allows corporations and alliances to take "ownership" of planets. I am also glad that a risk free income source has been removed from null and lowsec.

I also appreciate the bandwidth buff because many planets have their resources spread out all over, and it makes it easier to farm resources far away from eachother.

A couple of questions:

In reinforced mode, will importing and exporting to and from the customs office be disabled?

If you destroy the customs office, will you be able to take whatever's inside for your own uses? PiratePirateTwistedTwisted

To all the haters out there, you can still do PI in highsec if you feel that low/null is too dangerous for you.
Trainwreck McGee
Doomheim
#389 - 2011-10-18 17:56:38 UTC
Another big **** you to people living in WH. Thanks CCP for being A giant stinking *******

CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool

Gallion
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#390 - 2011-10-18 17:56:39 UTC
I've got some concerns.
-for those that already have PI on Null sec planets will the good now transport to the player Owned Gantry/office?
-Will warping to the Customs office now warp to the player owed Gantry/office when its there?
-profit from the highs sec locations gonna be even less profitable?
-and is their a deployment date decided for it yet?

This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal)

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#391 - 2011-10-18 17:57:02 UTC
Handsome Hussein wrote:
Dominus Alterai wrote:
Holy One wrote:
I guess I'll just go do incursions like everyone else.

Same here. I think i'll join the mass exodus from PI and start doing incursions instead. 3 more PI alts up for sale....

Confirming that my hauling/PI alt is already training for a Tengu.


I did not have time to read the entire thread, can someone bring me up to speed on why people would rather waste their PI characters on another profession instead of:

1: Continuing to do PI in Empire Space, just as they always have. Granted, the fee for import/export will be 10% instead of 5% now.
2: Use the CO someone else has put up if it is in low or null sec, assuming the taxes aren't too high.
3: If those taxes are too high, or you are not allowed access, simply use the launchpad as you always could.
4: If there is no CO in place, form a small PI corp for the purposes of putting up your own CO. You may even earn extra income from the taxing of other people using those planets.

Did I miss something meaningful? Or are people just throwing up their hands because they don't understand or didn't read the blog correctly?

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#392 - 2011-10-18 17:57:13 UTC
This whole thing looks great on paper, but its making a lot of assumptions about EVE players that simply make me cringe and wonder if the PI team actually interacts with the average members of the player base.


  • PI resources, especially in 0.0, are the sole benefit of the entities controlling the area. IE: Goonswarm doesn't allow White Noise. to freely jaunt around our space doing whatever they want to. We'd never consider letting entities that didn't pay us a significant sum to use resources in our sovereign space, regardless of the ability to tax the output. Why would we supply the means to resist us to our enemies when we could simply cut them off from it?

  • Things with massive EHP and defenses suck. Plain and simple. This was the complaint with the old POS-spamming Sov system and is one of the major complaints with the Dominion system. Adding another structure with EHP that requires more than a medium-sized (40+ person) gang to reinforce or destroy is only going to cause space to be littered with player-built CO's that no one want to waste time destroTing unless they have a dire, compelling reason to do it. Instead, the creation of a CO that can be knocked into reinfocement mode by small or medium-sized groups in a non-lucrative amount of time would be much more beneficial to the community and promote destruction of assets and actually undocking to defend them from small, stray roving gangs. As well, if I'm with a small group and have an entire system shut-down from external traffic, I'd want the ability to significantly impact industrial assets with that small group considering we have military control of the area. Require the owner to put up a significant defense of resources (BUT no defensive structures as they GREATLY DECREASE any "fun" that comes from structure grinds and provide incentives to [i][not/i] actively show up for defenses) rather than make it a royal pain and boring fiasco to even put these structures into a reinforce cycle.

  • Theres is little to no logic in allowing CO's to be deployed in lowsec without the consent of the holding sovereign NPC entity. As pointed out, a nullsec, player-controlled entity would never willingly allow a neutral or enemy group access to strategic resources in their sovereign space. Likewise, I can hardly believe that (for example) the Amarr Empire would allow a mostly Minmatar-loyal corporation to freely deploy a structure that directly facilitates the harvesting of precious resources in their space. Much like lowsec POS's, CO's in lowsec should require some form of contract between the sovereign NPC entity and the corporation to allow for its functioning (a la starbase vouchers). The costs for this could logically be recouped through taxing of the CO's exports by the controlling entity.

  • Granularity and corporate security seem to have been overlooked a bit. I, as a corp director, am not going to hand out anchoring rights to every tom-****-and-jane in my corp just so they can run a CO for their private use. I'm also not going to let everyone have access to the resources of an export from the CO when they're directly related to how my corp's POS assets run. Why? Because even I would steal those resources if I was given a chance and there was minimal way for me to be caught by other corp members. That's the cold, dark world of EVE Online. Unless there's abilities for me as a corp director to audit any and all PI transactions, PI would be limited in my corp to only those that were trusted and easily track-able via our external audit programs.

  • The same would apply to any other entities using a CO my corp controls. I'd want to know what they're producing and what quantities they're exporting to adequately tax them for the privilege of using our CO.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

Dalketh
DRRUSSEL
#393 - 2011-10-18 17:57:17 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:


You have some cool ideas but why do you assume the larger corporation won't tolerate you? Do people hate money all of a sudden? Question On a serious note, do you actually think they are more likely to disallow you? We are operating under the assumption that most PCO owners will allow "neutral" at least for the extra dough.

If they indeed don't allow you, I would bet there will be wormholes that operate free for all COs for profit. At least that's what we hope.


OK I am smelling doom, no offense but you saying things like the above prove you DO NOT play this game or really understand many things vital to making this change work in any way. So much for the 'new improved CCP'... Sad
CCP Omen
C C P
C C P Alliance
#394 - 2011-10-18 17:57:37 UTC
gargars wrote:
CCP Omen wrote:
Rhavas wrote:
Love the player-driven approach even if it is going to kill my income stream. Oh well, improvise, adapt, overcome.

Questions:
1) Looks like we can now launch and avoid customs (subject to ugly volume restrictions) - please confirm.
2) Courier contracts at customs offices? This is the feature really needed/lacking from PI production. Coming?
3) When does this go live?
4) Are you sending Vaseline to POS owners? They'll need it when we producers factor this in to fuel pricing...


1) confirmed
2) Not planned, good idea though
3) I'm not sure if I am at liberty to tell, but it's ready to go
4) Oops If it turns out to be too much of an upset, we will take action.



OK I am still digesting this (and not liking what I hear so far in many ways) but want to ask why is it that this is 'ready to go' when as far as I know we never heard a word about this? Another implementation without player feedback IN ADVANCE.... really? Why even pretend to care about our opinions when the coding is obviously DONE? ('Ready to go').


We are ready to go when we have sifted through your feedback and made any necessary changes. For once we are not pressed for time, this is a good thing. The CSM were notified 2011.08.19 11:22:00, the design was shown to them and we made several tweaks as a result. If you want to see things UBER early the CSM is the place to be!

Regards
Omen

I have asked our lovely community reps , and I can say this much about the release of this feature: between US Thanksgiving and Christmas

Senior Game Designer Team True Grit EVE/DUST Gameplay Liaison

David Carel
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#395 - 2011-10-18 17:59:15 UTC
Kaminu wrote:
A good extension would be to set different taxes for different standings.
i.E.

Corp = 0%
Alliance = 2%
+10 = 5%
+5 = 10%
0 = no access
-5 = no access
-10 = no access

Why not selling the service to anyone that is willing to pay for it? If a player CO is placed in low sec why should the owner not earn more from player he dont know as from his friends?


Thank you very much for copying my post.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#396 - 2011-10-18 18:00:24 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
This is a great idea. The structure doesn't have too much EHP compared to all of the sov structures, making it a good target for bored small gangs. It also allows corporations and alliances to take "ownership" of planets. I am also glad that a risk free income source has been removed from null and lowsec.

I also appreciate the bandwidth buff because many planets have their resources spread out all over, and it makes it easier to farm resources far away from eachother.

A couple of questions:

In reinforced mode, will importing and exporting to and from the customs office be disabled?

If you destroy the customs office, will you be able to take whatever's inside for your own uses? PiratePirateTwistedTwisted

To all the haters out there, you can still do PI in highsec if you feel that low/null is too dangerous for you.


has nothing to do with its location, this is a dumb ass change to a terribal 'profession', that will just make it more terrible and drive up pos fuel/parts/towers t2 items.

pi itself need a massive make over, not the ******* collection points..

OMG when can i get a pic here

Dirk Decibel
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#397 - 2011-10-18 18:01:03 UTC
On a side note: I was gonna reactivate my PI account and take it into low sec. Now I think I'm just gonna wait and see how this works out b4 reactivating it. Might not be worth it.
Handsome Hussein
#398 - 2011-10-18 18:01:24 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
To all the haters out there, you can still do PI in highsec if you feel that low/null is too dangerous for you.

Nice deflection there.

The hating isn't about danger but rather that PI will be coalesced to larger and larger groups like so many other things in EVE (sov, for instance).

It's a dead-end for the casual player now. Our best option is to stop selling our products, create a stockpile, and wait for the inevitable market price explosion.

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#399 - 2011-10-18 18:02:25 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Again... THIS IS A COMPLETELY WORTHLESS CHANGE IN WORMHOLES!

1. Only the people that live there do the PI there. We won't be charging our own corp/alliance taxes for the fuel they're making to help keep the pos running.

2. Holes last a maximum of 24 hrs. If someone comes in and puts one reinforced, the hole will close before they can pop it. Even if they pop it, they gain nothing. So, it's either wasted time and aggravation to put one reinforced and never get to finish the job, or it's an added pain in the ass for someone moving into a new hole to have to clean these pieces of crap out in order to set up their own.

The whole concept completely fails in wormholes. Please consider leaving wormhole space out of this. It only works in areas of high traffic where you can have people that are in direct competition with each other trying to do PI on a particular planet. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN in wormholes!

C'mon CCP... THINK on this!


CCP Omen - I may not be on the CSM, but could you take a moment to consider this? It really makes no sense to include wormholes in this change at all. I'm not going to tax myself or my corp, so there's no one to tax there. I have up to ten planets being worked, so I need to halt fuel production and come up with ten of these things that we won't use anyhow?

This is a really really bad change with regards to J-space. Please take a moment to consider that.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Holy One
Privat Party
#400 - 2011-10-18 18:03:11 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
EI Digin wrote:
This is a great idea. The structure doesn't have too much EHP compared to all of the sov structures, making it a good target for bored small gangs. It also allows corporations and alliances to take "ownership" of planets. I am also glad that a risk free income source has been removed from null and lowsec.

I also appreciate the bandwidth buff because many planets have their resources spread out all over, and it makes it easier to farm resources far away from eachother.

A couple of questions:

In reinforced mode, will importing and exporting to and from the customs office be disabled?

If you destroy the customs office, will you be able to take whatever's inside for your own uses? PiratePirateTwistedTwisted

To all the haters out there, you can still do PI in highsec if you feel that low/null is too dangerous for you.


has nothing to do with its location, this is a dumb ass change to a terribal 'profession', that will just make it more terrible and drive up pos fuel/parts/towers t2 items.

pi itself need a massive make over, not the ******* collection points..


Bro its CCP. Everything they do revolves around a large collidable object and blobs. Always has ..

And yeah, someone else will have to manufacture the 1.5m t2 missiles I *was* doing every week from PI.
And buy the plexes I was buying with the proceeds.

That someone will probably be in Test or Goons. Roll

:)