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New Dev Blog: Player-owned Customs Office

First post First post
Author
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#281 - 2011-10-18 16:35:47 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
Aynen wrote:
Well, there goes my wormhole space Ninja-PI operation. I had all my alts set up in one wh system where they do PI even though the system is occupied by another corp with far superior numbers and capabilities. With these changes, my main source of income will be gone, which was substantial when all planets are running at capacity.

When these changes get onto TQ, the occupying corp will make the costums offices, and I won't have access anymore exept for the small canisters I can shoot into orbit.
Personally I'd have created a system where the ninja wh PI player can have his place, like having to bribe the costums officers or something.
Or, in favor of more interaction, building a temporary pirate station that will appear on overview in the system and takes 15 minutes to make ready for use, then, after a certain amount has been transfered through it, it blows up.
This way there's a bit more danger to Ninja-wh-PI and it creates an environment that stimulates pvp.


You have some cool ideas but why do you assume the larger corporation won't tolerate you? Do people hate money all of a sudden? Question On a serious note, do you actually think they are more likely to disallow you? We are operating under the assumption that most PCO owners will allow "neutral" at least for the extra dough.

If they indeed don't allow you, I would bet there will be wormholes that operate free for all COs for profit. At least that's what we hope.


You clearly have no idea of how w-space works, mate. The "larger corporation" won't tolerate him for anything because he is in their turf. Its like saying "why won't goons allow people to ninja PI in goonspace"? Because they have worked hard to get and keep the space and they see entrepreneurs like this guy as thieving ratbastards and will try to kill him. If they don't they are crap at security (which would appear to be the case).

Do corps in w-space like people raiding their anoms? No. They will respond and kill the intruder not sit back and say "ok, luls, you can pay a 9% tarriff so its marginally cheaper than hisec".

If you live in w-space or sov space you'd be an idiot not to set access = +10 or at least +5, to just choke off the ability of anyone not on your budski list to utilise the resource.

You really seem to have no idea about the motivations behind why people get sov/w-space and how they go about their business.
Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions
#282 - 2011-10-18 16:35:58 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
If implementing multiple tax levels in a POCO is too heavy a task, why not allow multiple POCO per planet? I assume they're nameable so a more accessible POCO could have a name that reflects that.

When it comes to smugglers and covert-ops, this is the sort of situation where the Hacking Module comes into play? Why not allow a smuggler to hack a POCO, allowing transfer rights for a short period?


You sir are a gentleman and a scholar!
Dominus Alterai
Star Freaks
#283 - 2011-10-18 16:36:33 UTC
So, I have a few (a lot?) of concerns about this.

1.) As other people have said, the PI market will reach absurd prices, at least in comparison to what they are now, meaning all items that use "planet poop" will also increase, such as towers, SBU's, TCU's, and other anchored structures, as well as T2 items. I know you are working on decreasing the cost of T2 items by balancing moon products, but this will off set that by a decent amount, making the moon balancing effect negligible.

2.) I know for a fact that a majority of PI products harvested by small time high-sec players comes from low-sec planets that are close to high sec borders. Removing the Customs Office from ALL low-sec systems will increase cost. One way to offset this is to increase the amount of resources that high-sec planets have to the same amount as the low-sec planets, or at the very least, similar (only slightly less). The income from owned Customs offices should balance out the pros/cons of low-sec PI, as people who live in deep low-sec, at least in my experience, will find it troublesome to fly 15+ jumps just to get to 3 or 4 planets. You could also make it so that faction warfare systems use the player owned offices, while empire owned low-sec should retain the customs offices, ownership being switched from CONCORD to the corresponding empire who owns the space.

3.) Decrease the tax increase from 50% to 20-30% for high sec Customs offices. This will be from the shift in the majority of the PI resources from high/low sec to 0.0 space. High sec PI output WILL decrease, perhaps dramatically, once the changes take effect. No one wants to pay more for their PI products than what they are worth on the market.

4.) Also concerning the low-sec player owned offices, small time operators in low-sec, such as myself, will find it impossible to replace or anchor multiple customs offices without the fear of them being taken down within 24 hours. One way to get around this is to perhaps increase the hp of the customs offices to that of a large tower and perhaps adding a repair function to the office, making it easier for alliances with less than 100 active members to get to it in time for defense.

Over-all, this is an excellent idea for 0.0 space an W-space, but the mechanics need to be more thoroughly thought out. Making it a hassle for people to make PI products in both high and low sec will have a substantial effect on the market, as well as the items that use the PI resources as their main building/fuel cost.

Reducing your holes to a quivering mess since 2009.

pussnheels
Viziam
#284 - 2011-10-18 16:37:33 UTC
This is just stupid you giving control away again to the people who are not using it or who will just abuse it ; as far i know fom my fellow players most of them don't like the idea of making pi a corporate thing and you just did that

Bad concept ccp bad concept

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire

Whiskey 01
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#285 - 2011-10-18 16:38:26 UTC
After looking at the cost of the new CO's, Please refund my 1.6 million in skillpoints from Planet Mangement.
Do I need to submit a petiton for this?

Thanks

Aynen
Federal Guard and Recon Corporation
#286 - 2011-10-18 16:38:48 UTC
I've been doing Ninja wh PI for a while, and it's pretty hard to catch me in such a way that I won't find my way back in because I use multiple alts and I picked a system which isn't overly busy. If one of my toons explodes, I'll lose an Iteron, possibly with a cargo bay full of PI goods, but that's quite an acceptable loss since it happens so rarely.
My point is, I don't fear much for being permanently booted out of the system, and a little more chance of having to 'interact' with the locals is fine by me, will make it more exciting even. But that's from the perspetive of the ninja, not the locals. And the player owned costums office as described is exactly what they need to get rid of me entirely.
That probably wasn't the design goal.

I'm thinking, what if one can 'invest' in the loyalty of the costums office's personel? This would essencially mean that the more you 'invest', the larger the volume they will traffic for you. In other words, if you can pay for it, you can increase your share of the 'bandwith' so to speak. This means it'll cost a lot of money to make the station exclusively operate for your corporation, decreasing the total revenue you can attain from PI. If you want maximum revenue, you'll have to accept that others can use the station aswell.
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#287 - 2011-10-18 16:39:33 UTC  |  Edited by: BeanBagKing
CCP Omen wrote:
We are operating under the assumption that most PCO owners will allow "neutral" at least for the extra dough.


Raise your hand if you control a wormhole and would rather have extra isk, or a shiny new killmail....
Not to mention the trust factor of allowing a neutral to toy around in your space. The trust factor is a big one, what happens if he has friends that decide they want to setup shop? He can show them the way in. Nevermind that he's been there for a year or however long, paranoia dictates that this is completely beside the point.

I think you're completely overestimating the number of people that tolerate neutrals in any space where you can setup an office (0.0/lowsec). It's -possible- he can make some kind of arrangement where they take a large percentage of his isk and in turn set him blue, but I doubt it. Besides if they did it would no longer be "ninja" it'd just be a fellow wormhole resident.

Edit: or to put it another way...


XavierVE wrote:
Quote:
You have some cool ideas but why do you assume the larger corporation won't tolerate you?


You seem like a really nice guy, but anyone who could ask such a question simply doesn't play EVE.


Edit #2: or see this as well https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=206809#post206809
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#288 - 2011-10-18 16:41:09 UTC
OMEN:

First Comment: ******* AWESOME

Next comments:

Sov Response: If you OWN a system, you should be 100% in control of WHO can put up a PCO and who can access them. The corp may say open access, but the alliance says otherwise, seems consistent.

Taxes Comment: Being able to set multiple tax rates seems like an essential idea. My group pays low taxes, but anyone can use it for 40% etc.

Defenses: It seems very strange that I can deploy a PCO but I can't surround it with guns, I'm not talking FF madness, but guns!!

Contracts: Courier contracts were brought up long ago, I'm glad you'd heard them, and I hope the consume your Friday nights until done.

There can be only 1? I get the madness of space liter, but only 1? I think there will be plenty of fights over them even if 4-5 were allowed. You could have a lower tax rate, but also say "I don't defend it"

Question: Will the PCO be able to label his PCO? have a motd? anything?
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Barakkus
#289 - 2011-10-18 16:42:05 UTC
I think customs offices should be very similar to towers in terms of defense. Shields, stront, guns, fuel etc. Would make it very interesting lol

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#290 - 2011-10-18 16:42:29 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Make these things cheaper to buy, build, and transport (so they can be replaced more easily by small corps after being destroyed), and create salvagable wrecks when they are destroyed.

The time setting them up should be the major cost factor.

Also, anybody should be able to set up one of these things anywhere. It should be up to the people who hold sovereignty to actively hunt them down and clear them out (which shouldn't be too hard tbh).
Woo Glin
State War Academy
Caldari State
#291 - 2011-10-18 16:42:57 UTC
This owns bones
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#292 - 2011-10-18 16:44:06 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
Ra Voreen wrote:
How will it work in null-sec ? Are the planets still reserved to the alliance that holds sov ?


We are undecided on this topic, it could go either way right now any preference?
Regards
Omen


I would not allow planetary activities to be reserved to the alliance that holds sov.

1: Conflict is good.
2: This will dovetail nicely with how things work in DUST 514.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Miraqu
Kneipenterroristen.
#293 - 2011-10-18 16:44:27 UTC
I love it!

More power to the players.
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#294 - 2011-10-18 16:44:51 UTC
BeanBagKing wrote:
CCP Omen wrote:
We are operating under the assumption that most PCO owners will allow "neutral" at least for the extra dough.


Raise your hand if you control a wormhole and would rather have extra isk, or a shiny new killmail....
Not to mention the trust factor of allowing a neutral to toy around in your space. The trust factor is a big one, what happens if he has friends that decide they want to setup shop? He can show them the way in. Nevermind that he's been there for a year or however long, paranoia dictates that this is completely beside the point.

I think you're completely overestimating the number of people that tolerate neutrals in any space where you can setup an office (0.0/lowsec). It's -possible- he can make some kind of arrangement where they take a large percentage of his isk and in turn set him blue, but I doubt it. Besides if they did it would no longer be "ninja" it'd just be a fellow wormhole resident.

Edit: or to put it another way...


XavierVE wrote:
Quote:
You have some cool ideas but why do you assume the larger corporation won't tolerate you?


You seem like a really nice guy, but anyone who could ask such a question simply doesn't play EVE.


Ninja PI in 0.0 should be controllable, I mean if you OWN the system, you OWN it. In low sec, that's different of course.

CCP I do hope you increase the storage capacity of the warehouses (whatever it's called that isn't a launch pad).
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Liandra Xi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#295 - 2011-10-18 16:44:56 UTC
Highfield wrote:
CCP Omen wrote:
Dr Mercy wrote:
Any comments on HP levels?


=HP scpecification=
* Customs Office Gantry
** Shield: 10,000,000
** Armor: 500,000
** Structure: 300,000

* Customs Office
** Shield: 10,000,000
** Armor: 2,500,000
** Structure: 2,000,000

Regards
Omen


WAY too high..this is a missed opportunity to get more action for medium subcapital fleets in EvE...divide numbers by 4 and we're getting closer + invulnerability from fighterbombers + doomsdays.


I'm not going to comment on the specific HP numbers, but I would like to echo the request to make these things basically invulnerable to fighter bombers and doomsdays. I have no issues with dreads and carriers being used to RF these, great opportunites for small cap fights, but make it so that Titans and Supercaps cannot themselves damage them within 2 minutes would make these a lot more fun.
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#296 - 2011-10-18 16:45:26 UTC
I see you do not play the game much. No one allows blues or neutrals to freely roam around their space, not in null not in WH space. Not only is a risk, it is a lot MOAR FUN to blow them up! This is EVE!

Specially if the alternative is to control the market and inflate prices of the products I alone produce.




CCP Omen wrote:
Aynen wrote:
Well, there goes my wormhole space Ninja-PI operation. I had all my alts set up in one wh system where they do PI even though the system is occupied by another corp with far superior numbers and capabilities. With these changes, my main source of income will be gone, which was substantial when all planets are running at capacity.

When these changes get onto TQ, the occupying corp will make the costums offices, and I won't have access anymore exept for the small canisters I can shoot into orbit.
Personally I'd have created a system where the ninja wh PI player can have his place, like having to bribe the costums officers or something.
Or, in favor of more interaction, building a temporary pirate station that will appear on overview in the system and takes 15 minutes to make ready for use, then, after a certain amount has been transfered through it, it blows up.
This way there's a bit more danger to Ninja-wh-PI and it creates an environment that stimulates pvp.


You have some cool ideas but why do you assume the larger corporation won't tolerate you? Do people hate money all of a sudden? Question On a serious note, do you actually think they are more likely to disallow you? We are operating under the assumption that most PCO owners will allow "neutral" at least for the extra dough.

If they indeed don't allow you, I would bet there will be wormholes that operate free for all COs for profit. At least that's what we hope.

Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions
#297 - 2011-10-18 16:46:17 UTC
The overwhelming feeling I'm getting from this thread is: "Have you thought this through all the way?"

Please don't take this the wrong way. We do like the spirit of the feature. We the players simply feel this new feature could be abused severely. There are many cons and not many pros. Could the design team please take another conscious look at this feature taking all of the feedback into account before release?

I can see this turning into a threadnaught quite easily, because of the upcoming Dust release, among many other current, practical reasons. People care about PI, because it's something everyone can do. At least, it is in it's current state. We don't want that to change.
Andrea Griffin
#298 - 2011-10-18 16:46:21 UTC
If tax rates based on standings, corp, alliance are implemented will these rates be publicly available? For example, I may have a CO up somewhere with 25% tax for everyone, but 5% tax for +5 standings. People may be encouraged to contact me about standings, which I would happily provide for a small fee!
Jake Centauri
Doomheim
#299 - 2011-10-18 16:47:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Centauri
The new CO's could also be used for industrial griefing in the following manner: say you find a good planet with a CO open to the public for 9% tax. You install PI on the planet and come back the following day only to find either the tax raised to 100% or, the CO standings were changed to blue only. Your PI installation becomes unexpectedly isolated (no CO) or way too expensive to use. I mean, who is gonna _trust_ that neutral CO's settings will remain stable....I won't.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#300 - 2011-10-18 16:47:28 UTC
Mr Management wrote:
I really do feel you guys at CCP don't play this game anymore ...

No seriously you have all gone mad.

Alliance x launches 300 PCO and locks everyone else out ....... smart move CCP, so much for
a sandbox game.


Which is one reason why there needs to be some sort of fuel cost each hour. Fuel costs force the owner to decide "do I really want to put up a POCO here, can I make a profit from the taxes?".

(And 300 POCOs would only be about 30 systems.)