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REMOVING ICE FROM HIGH SEC WTF
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muxacb12
Opiriel Dark Corp
#61 - 2011-10-16 18:26:27 UTC
OSGOD wrote:


I AM SICK AND TIRED OF THIS BULLSHIT CCP STOP ******* WITH THE CORE OF THE GAME AND FIX WHAT IS ******,


They are fixing **** as you put it... they are taking ice out of highsec so macroers can't macro it,...

btw YOU MAD BRO and can i haz your stuff...
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#62 - 2011-10-17 04:55:16 UTC
I just wish CCP would make their minds up and announce what they're going to do, either confirm or deny the removal of ice from high-sec and then people could make their minds up and start planning what to do.

Knowing my luck, they'll probably do it just after I re-sub again Ugh...
Goddess Ishtar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2011-10-17 06:30:51 UTC
Removing ice from highsec would go a long way towards fixing the game. CCP has my blessing
Vastek Non
State War Academy
Caldari State
#64 - 2011-10-17 10:25:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Vastek Non
2 things if this goes ahead:

1/ Botters will still bot - many of the HS bots belong to null sec/wh corps feeding their POS already - now they will simply have to add a 'red/neutral enters system - warp to POS' command. In actuality the chances of bots getting ganked in Alliance null is probably lower than in empire.

2/ Null sec alliances would have a stranglehold over wormholes and High Sec. Do I really need to explain why this is a bad idea, particularly given the contemptuous attitude many in null seem to have for all others?



The stupidity of CCP even contemplating this as a genuine idea to 'fix' the game pefectly shows the attitude that led to the summer of rage.
Perhaps they should do something about bots instead?

The nullsec types bleating about bots in high (and there are many bots in high it cannot be ignored) should probably look in their own backyard first. I suspect GS/TEST for example are conveniently overlooking lowlifes such as 'Leetcheese', their very own botting legend, who perfectly encapulates the attitude.
This genuis had the nerve to complain about his ban/isk confiscation as 'he didn't even RMT it, it was only to keep him in Maelstroms for fights'. The amounts involved seem to have been mere billions per week. There are many more out there like him.

CCP - kill the bots. Don't punish players for your half decade long failings to stem the problem.
Habaticus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2011-10-17 14:02:19 UTC
It's really a bad idea. If I can't mine my own ice I'll drop the POS; just the way I do things - There'll just be an initial 30/35 day delay in my manufacturing flow. Don't know why all these knee jerk reactions and 0.0 asskissing actions.

God I love this hide function - reading the forums are interesting and informative again :)
VaMei
Meafi Corp
#66 - 2011-10-17 14:53:50 UTC
This is only a rough idea that is part of CCPs long term (as in years) vision for future of the game, and that vision is subject to change dozens of times before that vision becomes a plan, and then subject to change again before that plan becomes action.

Don't get your panties in a bunch yet. Rather be glad that players are being given some insite into the vision process. For that matter, I'm glad that CCP is showing that there is a vision for the future of Eve vs playing Space Barbie or worse, emo Barbie.
Goddess Ishtar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2011-10-17 20:04:38 UTC
Habaticus wrote:
It's really a bad idea. If I can't mine my own ice I'll drop the POS

That's fine.
Vastek Non
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2011-10-17 21:36:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Vastek Non
Habaticus wrote:
It's really a bad idea. If I can't mine my own ice I'll drop the POS; just the way I do things - There'll just be an initial 30/35 day delay in my manufacturing flow. Don't know why all these knee jerk reactions and 0.0 asskissing actions.

God I love this hide function - reading the forums are interesting and informative again :)


Well from the nullseccers point of view that is exactly what its about of course. Clearly the average nullsec alliance has a 0 care factor about bots, and their members are happy to state just how little they care about ice mining, and miners, soo... the only message that can be inferred is that it is about killing off competition.

Hopefully CCP will ignore the real world precedent of small, noisy, greedy interest groups owning their ears and pushing through incredibly bad policy that will be detrimental to the game as a whole, even if said greedy, short sighted interest groups profit in the short term.

Edit: CCP have indicated that it seems more likely they will just make ice roids deplete in a similar manner to other ores. I doubt this will do anything from a botting point of view, but at least it seems to be a more sensible and equitible decision.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#69 - 2011-10-17 22:14:45 UTC
Goddess Ishtar wrote:
Habaticus wrote:
It's really a bad idea. If I can't mine my own ice I'll drop the POS

That's fine.


What's unfortunate is that you likely lack the capacity to fully grasp why it actually isn't.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2011-10-17 23:16:04 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Goddess Ishtar wrote:
Habaticus wrote:
It's really a bad idea. If I can't mine my own ice I'll drop the POS

That's fine.


What's unfortunate is that you likely lack the capacity to fully grasp why it actually isn't.

Dazzle us with your insight then.
Kato Matsu
Ministry of War
#71 - 2011-10-17 23:37:22 UTC
This topic is quite controversial. Should CCP move ice to low/null sec? The theory being that it will promote more "carebears" to move to low/null sec, creating more ship/module losses, causing more ships/modules to be built, keeping the eve-conomy flowing. It is also believed that moving ice to low/null sec will stop bots from mining 24/7 relatively safely in high sec.

Unfortunately, neither is true.

When it comes down to it a player will play EVE exactly how they want to play EVE. If I was a POS owner and I didn't want to visit low sec to mine ice I simply wouldn't do it. For some players I would imagine having their style of play changed so much would encourage them to get their kicks in another MMO. To draw a parallel: suddenly CONCORD arrives in low sec, albeit extremely slowly, destroying the aggressor just like in high sec. Pvp players would be upset beyond reason. This interferes with their play style. Without a doubt a lot of low sec residents would leave EVE for greener pvp pastures.

As for bots. Bots will always exist. Paraphrasing another poster: a new command will get added to the bot's script to warp away when a non-blue jumps in their belt. Ice would continue to be harvested by bots in low sec. With their constant activity they would more than make back any losses they could suffer. Basically, moving ice to low/null sec would lower the profit margin of being a bot a little. "A little": I'm using that vague term because the loss of profit is so small that it's not easily measured.
SC0T1SH WARRIOR
Zero For 0wned
#72 - 2011-10-18 01:43:44 UTC
As a person who spends the majority of their time in highsec and watching the same numbered ALTs go back and forth, back and forth to Ice belts in Mackinaws, Orcas and pods. i personally think everywhere in Eve should be like nullsec.


Us highsec people have it too easy, for too long have people cowered behind concord protection in the hopes that you can go read a book while you set your char to do the most menial job in the game..

No chance, if there was no concord protection, if everyone lived in a null type system, then that would mean people would have to work together, bigger corps using game mechanics to take care of their industrial wings, protected mining ops with the constant threat of a drop. NEEDING other players to take care of the corp/alliance income, dedicated pvp wings escorting indys to a well scouted system and deploying in the hopes all goes well.

The prices for everything would rise that is true, but so would the rewards. if you had to be alive and awake to actually go out into space and (heaven forbid) watch what is happening then you would feel like you accomplished something when your fleet of industrialists clear out a belt or fill up enough ice to make profit/fuel everything, while your intel channels and scouts have done their job well and you can pack up that rorq and gtfo back home.

if you people dont want to play together, and you only want the easy ISK then you're doing it wrong. the whole concept of "eve is real" should be knowing that at any time, you may be attacked for your goods, just as you are in real life.


And again, i spend a lot of time in highsec, and even when i first started in eve and learned of concord, i thought it was too easy.

this is not WoW, new players should have to learn how to survive if they want to survive. and if they cant do that, then they shouldn't be playing.

Dont mind me,  just touching your stuff.
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2011-10-18 10:47:39 UTC
SC0T1SH WARRIOR wrote:
As a person who spends the majority of their time in highsec and watching the same numbered ALTs go back and forth, back and forth to Ice belts in Mackinaws, Orcas and pods. i personally think everywhere in Eve should be like nullsec.


Us highsec people have it too easy, for too long have people cowered behind concord protection in the hopes that you can go read a book while you set your char to do the most menial job in the game..

No chance, if there was no concord protection, if everyone lived in a null type system, then that would mean people would have to work together, bigger corps using game mechanics to take care of their industrial wings, protected mining ops with the constant threat of a drop. NEEDING other players to take care of the corp/alliance income, dedicated pvp wings escorting indys to a well scouted system and deploying in the hopes all goes well.

The prices for everything would rise that is true, but so would the rewards. if you had to be alive and awake to actually go out into space and (heaven forbid) watch what is happening then you would feel like you accomplished something when your fleet of industrialists clear out a belt or fill up enough ice to make profit/fuel everything, while your intel channels and scouts have done their job well and you can pack up that rorq and gtfo back home.

if you people dont want to play together, and you only want the easy ISK then you're doing it wrong. the whole concept of "eve is real" should be knowing that at any time, you may be attacked for your goods, just as you are in real life.


And again, i spend a lot of time in highsec, and even when i first started in eve and learned of concord, i thought it was too easy.

this is not WoW, new players should have to learn how to survive if they want to survive. and if they cant do that, then they shouldn't be playing.

This guy gets it. Nice post.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#74 - 2011-10-18 13:14:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ingvar Angst
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:
SC0T1SH WARRIOR wrote:
... self-righteous crap...

This guy gets it. Nice post.


No he doesn't. It's a small minded post that fails completely to fully consider the ripple effects this has on the entire game.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#75 - 2011-10-19 05:06:38 UTC
SC0T1SH WARRIOR wrote:
As a person who spends the majority of their time in highsec and watching the same numbered ALTs go back and forth, back and forth to Ice belts in Mackinaws, Orcas and pods. i personally think everywhere in Eve should be like nullsec.

this is not WoW, new players should have to learn how to survive if they want to survive. and if they cant do that, then they shouldn't be playing.



So why aren't you in nullsec the majority of times if you want everywhere to be like it?

you clearly fail to grasp the whole idea of nullsec / lowsec / highsec.

Highsec is safe(ish) where new players can find their feet, carebears can reside, and I guess the vast majority of industry takes place.
Lowsec is the borderzone, there's still penalties for shooting other players, concord moves around with 1 eye closed.
Nullsec is anything goes, no police, no rules, no nothing, everybody non-corp/alliance is out to kill you.

What do you think would happen if they scrapped the whole sec system and made everywhere lawless?

For the short term, the 'leet pvpers' who gank empire carebears would be lulzing, targets everywhere with no repercussions - that is until they run out of ships to fly as they get ganked by slightly more leet pvpers.

Most Industry would collapse as mining would stop in empire, who's going to risk mining in hulks knowing there's gangs of gankers flying around all the time just waiting to fire on pretty defenceless ships? Maybe eventually some industry would start again small scale, but prices would be astronomical as there would be far more demand for ships, modules etc.

New players on the trial would get killed a few times and quit, leaving an ageing population of bitter vets, subscriber numbers would go down, and ccp would either have to put prices up, or start the microtransactions to get cash in. - You want a battleship sir? hmm, yes we have this apoc in, yours for $£30.00

Existing players who don't want the hassles of nullsec and lowsec would also quit, getting bored of being ganked by everyone.


Sec system works as it is, the rewards for living in them could maybe do with some adjustment, increase the rewards for living in lowsec, and there's already plenty of rewards for living in nullsec.

I've lived in all 3 for substantial periods of time, and now I prefer empire, it suits my game play at this time.
Alikchi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2011-10-19 05:45:28 UTC
I think CCP should remove ice from space altogether and sell Oxygen Isotopes for aurum. This is the best solution
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#77 - 2011-10-19 07:32:01 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:
SC0T1SH WARRIOR wrote:
... self-righteous crap...

This guy gets it. Nice post.


No he doesn't. It's a small minded post that fails completely to fully consider the ripple effects this has on the entire game.

That's hilarious coming from the guy who only considers game mechanics from the pov of a wh resident. Leave your hole every once in a while...there's a whole big game world out there.
SC0T1SH WARRIOR
Zero For 0wned
#78 - 2011-10-19 10:06:15 UTC  |  Edited by: SC0T1SH WARRIOR
Emma Royd wrote:
So why aren't you in nullsec the majority of times if you want everywhere to be like it?


because there is plenty of people who do still think of highsec as safe so they risk their shiny ships daily, and i like to relieve them of that burden.

88% of Eve is in highsec which means more targets. so i stay where the money is.

i am not adverse to moving to null, but i wont go blindly into it until i am self sufficient enough or can provide something to a corp/alliance to justify my move.

Emma Royd wrote:
What do you think would happen if they scrapped the whole sec system and made everywhere lawless?


more people would have to work together to make what they have secure, you would learn to fit your ships better, you would learn to use the parts of the game that only the lawless use.
it surprises me how many people dont know how to make safespots or even use the DSCAN.
they dont understand manual flight, burning out of range, baiting, even the simple task of renaming your ships so they cant figure out who is in what.
and i am not talking about brand new people, i am talking about people who have played the game much longer than i have and they have never used them because they dont have to, they think if they want to undock in their shiny ships, if any "bad person" comes along then concord will protect them.

you will never learn to protect yourself if you dont have to.

Dont mind me,  just touching your stuff.
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#79 - 2011-10-19 10:13:25 UTC
Erm... the Game needs the Ripple.... Lol.

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#80 - 2011-10-19 13:34:59 UTC
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:
SC0T1SH WARRIOR wrote:
... self-righteous crap...

This guy gets it. Nice post.


No he doesn't. It's a small minded post that fails completely to fully consider the ripple effects this has on the entire game.

That's hilarious coming from the guy who only considers game mechanics from the pov of a wh resident. Leave your hole every once in a while...there's a whole big game world out there.


Someone needs to add that perspective, and I'm not seeing enough others willing to do so.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.