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Dev blog: The Retribution of Team Super Friends

First post First post
Author
unbless83
The Wild Cards in Space 2.0
#361 - 2012-10-11 22:16:53 UTC
oi... you lot... YES YOU THERE @ CCP

you wanna stop circumventing my mates years of hard work on http://www.triad-eve.net/pandora/indexzz3.php
he's been offering isk and LP for kills against enemies for ages now and u buggers keep making his hard work redundant @_@


he let me off the leash to bark at you... now i gotta get back in my box :(

Aussies are the unicorns of eve... rare and horny

Metal Icarus
Wraithguard.
The Wraithguard.
#362 - 2012-10-11 22:37:14 UTC
Eve Online: Retribution
The Consequences will never be the same.


yeah, that works.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#363 - 2012-10-11 22:38:30 UTC
Nice to see this finally getting updated, it's long overdue (nearly a decade now). Good stuff tho. P

* Buyable killrights is something we players requested since launch of this game, it's long loooong overdue, and you could never have added changes to the bountysystem without adding this. Good that you did. While tying it to the CW-update has some benefits (personally I like that you can do it on the fly, in space), it also has risks - currently if someone has killrights on you, you could easily add them to address book and/or keep an eye out while travelling. With the new system..
- how/will there be any kind of indication for the bad guy, that a killright on him has been sold? Let's just make it clear, I like that there's "more" consequences, but this effectively locks people out 100% from even a quick answering-phone session, anyone with killrights on him must 100% dock or cloak up everytime anything might interrupt him, at all, especially in highsec. It's quite a major change.

* The bounty pool, and payout as portion of isk value, seems like a damn good solution to many potential exploits. Expanding it to corp, alliances, and (in the future) specific structures is really nice.

Tho, here comes the critisism:

* How will anything of this make "bounty hunter" a viable career choice in EVE? The only thing that allows you to hunt down people is the buyable killrights system, which obviously has some limits. You'd have to basicly have an updated asset-like list that show people where the potentially targets is, which in itself would be bad because it virtually would be more powerful than locator agents. But a bounty-hunter would need to know where there is targets, he'd have to move ships, possibly scout the target (especially if he's not in highsec), etc. I.e. this is far far from newbie friendly, and a good waste of time for an older player.

* And the effect of this is that it effectively makes the "leaderboard" and 'see old bounty claims' essentially.. useless. The only people you'll see on top of those lists is highsec wardeccers (Jita campers etc), and possibly lowsec vultures preying on their own. You won't see any players dedicated to this at all. Which is a shame, I'd love to actually give it a shot myself, but it needs an intel tool.. and same time it needs to not be too powerful either. Extremely delayed, or just a plain list of names and we'd have to locate and do all research etc ourselves. Billboards won't cut it, and CQ frankly is a really ****** idea, not a single player I know has that stuff turned on as it's zero-content and just slowing down ship-swapping, as is. You need an ingame tool, like the market or map.

There's more to it, but that's the more important stuff, and a starters. You have made a decent platform, but really, you need to work on the intel tool, and it would be nice with a clarification on how the guy being hunted will have updates about his present situation.. Pirate

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#364 - 2012-10-11 22:47:27 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Nice to see this finally getting updated, it's long overdue (nearly a decade now). Good stuff tho. P

* Buyable killrights is something we players requested since launch of this game, it's long loooong overdue, and you could never have added changes to the bountysystem without adding this. Good that you did. While tying it to the CW-update has some benefits (personally I like that you can do it on the fly, in space), it also has risks - currently if someone has killrights on you, you could easily add them to address book and/or keep an eye out while travelling. With the new system..
- how/will there be any kind of indication for the bad guy, that a killright on him has been sold? Let's just make it clear, I like that there's "more" consequences, but this effectively locks people out 100% from even a quick answering-phone session, anyone with killrights on him must 100% dock or cloak up everytime anything might interrupt him, at all, especially in highsec. It's quite a major change.

* The bounty pool, and payout as portion of isk value, seems like a damn good solution to many potential exploits. Expanding it to corp, alliances, and (in the future) specific structures is really nice.

Tho, here comes the critisism:

* How will anything of this make "bounty hunter" a viable career choice in EVE? The only thing that allows you to hunt down people is the buyable killrights system, which obviously has some limits. You'd have to basicly have an updated asset-like list that show people where the potentially targets is, which in itself would be bad because it virtually would be more powerful than locator agents. But a bounty-hunter would need to know where there is targets, he'd have to move ships, possibly scout the target (especially if he's not in highsec), etc. I.e. this is far far from newbie friendly, and a good waste of time for an older player.

* And the effect of this is that it effectively makes the "leaderboard" and 'see old bounty claims' essentially.. useless. The only people you'll see on top of those lists is highsec wardeccers (Jita campers etc), and possibly lowsec vultures preying on their own. You won't see any players dedicated to this at all. Which is a shame, I'd love to actually give it a shot myself, but it needs an intel tool.. and same time it needs to not be too powerful either. Extremely delayed, or just a plain list of names and we'd have to locate and do all research etc ourselves. Billboards won't cut it, and CQ frankly is a really ****** idea, not a single player I know has that stuff turned on as it's zero-content and just slowing down ship-swapping, as is. You need an ingame tool, like the market or map.

There's more to it, but that's the more important stuff, and a starters. You have made a decent platform, but really, you need to work on the intel tool, and it would be nice with a clarification on how the guy being hunted will have updates about his present situation.. Pirate


Oh, and the possibly biggest boost you could ever do to a bounty hunting profession? make small scale PvP > blobs. This is also a reason a bounty hunter profession will be damn hard, as almost everyone in EVE fly in blobs. Hell, I even know people claiming 60 man fleets is "small scale roaming". If you want people to hunt single target pilots, if you want people to want to risk the consequences of their killrights to be sold, if you want players to be more likely to take more risks - oh and this should be good for everybody! more isk out of the game, more fun into it - then you should nerf blob combat to the ground.. it has killed nullsec, it has taken over low-, high is too easy to hide, so this leaves WH as the only proper potentially small scale PvP ground.. and the best place to bountyhunt single targets. But how will you find his WH?! Nerf blobs and this system will have over 9000% more chance of success, promise!

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.

Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#365 - 2012-10-11 22:47:32 UTC
CCP Tallest wrote:


4.) If they get away, the kill right is not "used up" and the ISK stays with the seller. Buyer beware.



Owhhh, thats totally not gona be explited :P

You set up a bait char with handy stock of kill rights and enough bounty on his head that killing him in expensive ship will not pay it all (just enough for that one kill)

now you arrange for kill rights on him on your alt (easy to do)

now you set a trap - place bait char in some visible place, with a cloak and posibly aligned toward safe spot, with kill right on sale for 10% of bounty payout, and the moment you get suspect (someone bought killright) you cloak and/or warp away to safe spot (and then cloak) or just dock - rince and repeat
Taedrin
Virtues Corporation
#366 - 2012-10-11 22:48:45 UTC
This feature is looking to be one of the best expansion features to EVE in a loooooonnnngggggg time.

Great job, CCP!
Momoyo
Rivinshield Trading Inc.
#367 - 2012-10-11 22:51:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Momoyo
Is there a plan to eventually make KR's function with the contract system? Since items are all on market now I think this is the chance to re purpose the contract system for services, things like contract killings, courier(already there), rental agreements and whatnot.

I only ask because I was hoping the new KR xfer system would foster more solo PVP but as is it just fosters more blob mechanics as everyone can attack a person whose KR is activated. If a market were opened up to buy and sell KR's I think it will be way more fun.

Also I think theres been some confusion as to how KR's are awarded. Is it going to be similar to the current system where they are awarded on a podding in low/high, or in high when someone kills another pilot who doesn't fight back? Some people think that KR's are going to be awarded on anyone who agresses anyone regardless of whether a kill is made or not.
Reicine Ceer
K-A-O-S theory
#368 - 2012-10-11 22:53:43 UTC
It seems to me that this update will be awesome. Props to CCP for having got this sorted!

The Lone-Bounty-Hunter thing is still an issue though, from what i can see - they'd still fall prey to gatecamps and allsorts - or rely on alts. I'd honestly love to give this a go, but i just can't imagine how it could be accomplished without a boatload of support, even if you're only going after one person.

I suppose that's the answer then... hire a posse ;)
DarkSim Market
Gangnam Style.
#369 - 2012-10-11 22:56:16 UTC
Dirael Papier wrote:
Quote:
More selective kill right selling – this is similar to the one above, only for kill rights instead of bounties. This basically allows the owner of the kill right to select more carefully who can purchase the kill right.


That's going to be important. Otherwise a person that has purchasable kill rights on them will just hop in a noob ship and have an alt kill them to get rid of the kill rights. (Of course, the person that sets the kill rights price can set it high, but if it's too high then why would other people buy the kill right either? So either they pay a small amount to get rid of their own kill rights, or the sellable kill right isn't an issue for them because nobody will want to pay the high amount.)


This post needs more attention.
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#370 - 2012-10-11 22:59:30 UTC
Okay so if no one has a killright on the guy I want to place a bounty on he is perfectly safe in highsec except from suicide gankers ?

I want a bribe-concord-for-free-killright mechanic. This new system is useless for my purposes of vengeance. No cake for super friends. Evil
Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
#371 - 2012-10-11 23:04:46 UTC
HOOOORAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY CCP!!

I HART U NAOW!
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#372 - 2012-10-11 23:06:50 UTC
Louis deGuerre wrote:
Okay so if no one has a killright on the guy I want to place a bounty on he is perfectly safe in highsec except from suicide gankers ?

I want a bribe-concord-for-free-killright mechanic. This new system is useless for my purposes of vengeance. No cake for super friends. Evil


If you place a large enough bounty, and they are in an exensive ship... someone might suicide gank them for the bounty.

Place a 60m isk bounty on an Exhumer Pilot, and if some people can gank that ship for less than 60m + loot.. they might!
Place a 300m isk bounty on a Marauder Pilot.... and if someone can gank that ship for less than 300+loot, they might!
Place a 1b isk bounty on a JF pilot, and if someone can gank that ship for less than 1b... they might!

But generally speaking, the rewards need to be worth the gank, and that means the to-be-bountied needs to be flying a not-to-hard-to-kill valuable ship.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#373 - 2012-10-11 23:36:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Megan DeMonet wrote:
do you guys not get it, YOU DO NOT GET 20% OF THE BOUNTY! you get 20% of what you destroy.

"The bounty payout is based on a percentage of the Total Loss, so the bounty received will always be considerably less than the actual Total Loss value. The base number we’re going for right now is 20%. This means that if you blow something up worth 100 million, then 20 million is paid out in bounty (or whatever is left in the bounty pool if less than 20 million)."<----copied and pasted

Yes I get it.

Bounty: 1b
Freighter: 1b
Bounty Reward: 1b * 20% = 200m
Platinum Insurance: 1b * 70% = 700m [Pays 100% and costs 30%]

1. Alt kills freighter and gets 200m bounty. Insurance pays me 700m. My loss: 1b - 200m - 700m = 100m.
2. Repeat step #1 four more times. Loss: 500m (less actually thanks to salvage). Bounty gone.

Ergo, let me pay to remove the bounty

[Of course insurance is not in step with market prices, but the basic idea is the same.]
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#374 - 2012-10-11 23:46:21 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Megan DeMonet wrote:
do you guys not get it, YOU DO NOT GET 20% OF THE BOUNTY! you get 20% of what you destroy.

"The bounty payout is based on a percentage of the Total Loss, so the bounty received will always be considerably less than the actual Total Loss value. The base number we’re going for right now is 20%. This means that if you blow something up worth 100 million, then 20 million is paid out in bounty (or whatever is left in the bounty pool if less than 20 million)."<----copied and pasted

Yes I get it.

Bounty: 1b
Freighter: 1b
Platinum Insurance: 1b * 70% = 700m [Pays 100% and costs 30%]

1. Alt kills freighter and gets 1b * 20% = 200m bounty. Insurance pays me 700m. My loss: 100m.
2. Repeat step #1 four more times. Loss: 500m (less actually thanks to salvage). Bounty gone.

Ergo, let me pay to remove the bounty

[Of course insurance is not in step with market prices, but the basic idea is the same.]


However in your example 5 freighters have gone boom and would have had to be replaced, thats isk payed into other players wallets and 5 freighters that need building rather than isk disappearing into a CONCORD shaped void and a large amount of bugger all happening. From a purely industrial standpoint I know which one I would prefer, especially if I'm the one building the ships for you.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome

Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#375 - 2012-10-11 23:48:05 UTC
How many agree that this "activate killright, receive bacon" is a bad idea as it is suggested, please give feedback...

I strongly believe it shouldn't just give suspect flag so every single pilot in eve can attack the person, I think it should be limited to only the fleet the person activating the killright

I don't suggest this because I am a high sec ganker (at least not much anymore) I suggest this because it would give richer gameplay, otherwise the guy with the kill right can simply follow their target around and constantly activating it, without having to engage themselves until someone else kills him... the way I suggest you actually have to either sell it, do it yourself or have a fleet as backup...

CCP you said it yourself that the reason for the suspect flag was so friends could help... them why not just make it so the fleet can help LE... don't simplify crimewatch too much... all or nothing is too much

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Gris X
Scions of Karishal
Chao3 Alliance
#376 - 2012-10-12 00:01:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Gris X
I am really glad that I can envision removing the ++ fix the bounty system ++ from my bio. Great job to the team for tackling this, and opening up discussions to poke holes and fix those before release..

My votes/suggestions at that stage are listed below

Bounty

-Keep the bounty anonymous.

-No refund of bounty or buyback of bounty, its amount can only be reduced by losses.

-If a corp/allliance disbands, split the bounty they had evenly amongst lower echelon (Pilots/corps) instead of refund.

-Add the clone value for the currentl skill level to a pod kill.

-Share the bounty by % of damage done, not by last kill.

Kill Rights

I am amongst those that are not convinced that Kill Rights will really be a primary tool for bounty hunters, as they are too easy to avoid.

Furthermore, I think that if/when used, the suspect flag needs to be more crippling: Someone with a suspect flag should get aggro from guns near a gate, and be prevented from docking in stations. Buying the kill right and activating it can be done from Local window.

Allow a pilot to buy a Bounty Right toward another pilot with a bounty from a bounty office. Only one Bounty Right is allowed per pilot at any given time. This bounty right is similar to a Kill Right, with the main change being that both pilots get the suspect flag when activated, and the Bounty Right can't be sold to anyone else. Bounty Right is then lost when Bounty Hunter get Bounty money from the quarry, at which point price of Bounty Right is refunded to the Bounty Hunter. A Bounty Hunter is a Pilot that has an active Bounty Right, and can use any bounty office as a locator agent toward its specific quarry.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#377 - 2012-10-12 00:10:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Darek Castigatus wrote:
However in your example 5 freighters have gone boom and would have had to be replaced, thats isk payed into other players wallets and 5 freighters that need building rather than isk disappearing into a CONCORD shaped void and a large amount of bugger all happening. From a purely industrial standpoint I know which one I would prefer, especially if I'm the one building the ships for you.

Actually, I build my own freighters and other ships, so I get them at cost.

True though, for those that buy their ships their out-of-pocket loss is a bit higher.

The other point is, there is a guaranteed payout of over 200m on an empty freighter. Add in 1b of cargo and say 50% drops, then that same freighter is worth (1b + 1b * 50%) * 20% = 300m bounty reward, add 500m cargo dropped = 800m to gank that freighter.
stoicfaux
#378 - 2012-10-12 00:14:27 UTC
30 days to exercise/sell kill rights? I must say that I previously considered the Crimewatch overhaul to be quite useless due to the 15 minute timers.

+1 for the new bounty system and kill rights overhaul, and another +1 for the tears it generates.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Singulis Pacifica
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#379 - 2012-10-12 00:17:26 UTC
Thanks for the dev blog CCP.

But one thing that is worth mentioning that I don't like one bit: it will be able to place a bounty on anyone.

Now, I know that the -1.0 sec rating doesn't work. 0.0 sec players that rat usually end up with high sec ratings and bounties should be placed on those players as well if others want to do it. But you are also targeting the neutrals, the high-sec dwellers, the PvE specialists roaming incursions. These players are potential targets as well, which is a problem. This could lead to grief-issues.

A group does an incursion, but one rich player player/corp, not part of the fleet suddenly puts a bounty on one of the fleet members and bang, he becomes a target while the fleet may need to rely on his skills/knowledge to see the incursion being run successfully.

As such, one additional rule needs to be added:
Bounties can not be placed on NPC alliances, corporations, or their members. This can not be used to escape bounties as such. If a player in a player corp acquires a bounty on top of his head, it will remain active even if he joins an npc corp later.

To make things fair and square. Players that are part of an NPC corporation/alliance can not acquire kill-rights, even if they are targeted in high-sec. They are part of an NPC corporation that acts as protector, but also as constrictor. If you stay in an NPC corp, you are safe, but you can not reap the benefits of being able to sell kill-rights either.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#380 - 2012-10-12 00:36:35 UTC
How exactly does this encourage players to have killrights generated on themselves?

I only see yet another measure being taken to make highsec even safer than it already is. There's going to be a lot less suicide ganking if people can just buy a killright at any time for cheap (and you know they'll be cheap) and instantly make that player free to be shot at by anyone.

How is this possibly a good mechanic? How is this not removing risk from highsec aside from people who want that risk.
You're slowly Trammelizing highsec, and this change is a huge step towards that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)