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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Winter] New destroyers

First post
Author
Lilycath Lightstalker
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#461 - 2012-10-03 00:52:52 UTC
chatgris wrote:
I suggest a buff for the caldari destroyer - -1 highslot, +1 midslot. Then it's got the same highs as the minmatar destroyer, but so much more utility with the 4 midslots.


Totally agree. I would love to have the 4th midslot to add more buffer to at least survive for my second volley of Light Missiles. Daredevils and Harpy's and anything with 260+ dps will just overheat and murder you.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#462 - 2012-10-03 04:24:24 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Recoil IV wrote:
name for the caldari destroyer : Goliath


I like your style!


moar dragon names please:

There is already the drake and the wyvern, as well as the worm, the chimaera, leviathan, and naga, but we could have the amphitere, ouroboros, hydra, amphisbaena, gargoyle, serpent, bakunawa, yilbegan, zmaj, cuelebre, vritra, ryu, scultone, dragua, zilant, ejderha, orochi, and the python as well, and likely more.


i just realised im not a nerd Cool


Actually, it's "wyrm" for dragons. We don't have that name on a ship, yet.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Brego Tralowski
Tralowski Independent Traders.
#463 - 2012-10-03 04:31:28 UTC
Really looking forward to getting these manufactured and out the door to people. RvB are gonna have a blast with these new toys - thank you CCP.

Supplying Quality goods to the masses.

See 'T1 Module supplies' for all your T1 needs or T1.com in game chat.

Imsopov II
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#464 - 2012-10-03 05:55:35 UTC
Will you be releasing the mineral requirements to build before release as well?
Trocomare
Kavashikari
#465 - 2012-10-03 06:05:00 UTC
I don't know what to think about the layout of the Amarr destroyer. It looks like a Caldari/Amarr hybrid. Is it so that the Sansha incursions are hiting the Amarr Empire so hard that they need to focus more on cheap and functionable solutions on the new ships more than beautiful curves, gold and a beautiful layout?
Perhaps the Amarr empire can't afford to build those fancy looking ships for a while...
Kortanil
Virtual Space Exploration
#466 - 2012-10-03 06:39:30 UTC
Why dont you make them customizable like the strategic cruisers with 3 choices instead of 4 for each subsystem?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#467 - 2012-10-03 06:57:36 UTC
For the Gallente destroyer, how about 5% drone navigation speed instead of hybrid damage?

For testing, you could run up a few variants of each and let us do minmaxing on test server du jour :)
Julia Charante
Doomheim
#468 - 2012-10-03 07:01:39 UTC
If youre planning on making the drone aspect of the gallente destroyer more powerful, you could put in a shipbonus or a skill that allows for medium class drones

Could be something like:

Role bonus:
50% reduction in drone bandwidth need.


This would effectively eliminate the need for the ship skil bonus of: 10% dmg and hitpoints (you can keep it as well to give better focus on drones), Which would make room for the current role bonus to represent itself as a skill bonus.

The user would also be given an effective versatile defence in the areas of shield or tank support drones, for those areas that can get too tough to handle without some defence. Like PvE missions where rats spawn after an ammount of seconds.

The ship attributes might need to be changed in order to fit that, but hey! you're the testers :)
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#469 - 2012-10-03 07:22:04 UTC
And if people are worries about a destroyer flying a full flight of medium drones, what about the Gila with a full flight of sentry drones?

Perhaps the drone-focussed variant of the Gallente drone destroyer could be a Guristas hull. Though Guristas tend to take Caldari hulls and fit Gallente technology in them: Worm, Gila, Rattlesnake.
Valleria Darkmoon
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#470 - 2012-10-03 07:54:16 UTC
Love the idea of expanding the destroyer class since it's so small and the fact that they are not just more turret boats adds a good bit of flavor, they look nice. Keep the good work coming CCP.

I noticed that you don't have names posted for the new hulls and if you're still working on them I'm partial to Amarr so might I suggest it be called a Deacon? If this has already been suggested then I second the motion.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#471 - 2012-10-03 08:22:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Whiite
Caldari Destroyer should be called: Quetzalcoatl

after the feathered serpent from Aztec mythology.

Mixed between a bird and dragon from witch most Caldari names come.


Edit:

as for the other ships.

Anmar: Primus Pilus

First Spear, titel given to the highest ranking centurion in the roman legion

Rather in line with other Anmar names, and refering to one that comands others as a link of it being a drone ship.


Gallente: Muze

After the greek demigods, should be in line with other greek mythology references within Galente names, also refferece to their taste for culture and since a Muze has many followers the refference to the drones is made as well


Minmatar: Sai


After the Azian dagger

Should be in line with other Minmatar ships like the Rapier and stiletto.
Jon Marburg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#472 - 2012-10-03 09:26:34 UTC
Why are we giving the caldari destroyer a +5% kinetic damage bonus when we are currently removing that bonus in favor of +5% rate of fire for all the other ships being rebalanced?
Pinky Denmark
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#473 - 2012-10-03 10:28:03 UTC
I guess we will have to playtest these alot but I really like the diversity a lot.

Not entirely sure I'm a fan of giving the minmatar ship an AF bonus for MWD but the Amarr role bonus really makes me wonder...

There is absolutely NO reason to give the ship a fixed cap recharge bonus. It is clearly just a role bonus because the 3 other ships have a role bonus? If you have to do something that makes sense with the amarr droneship you should give it the better cap recharge built-in and give a drone control range role bonus for the new pilots who can't use drones at 60km like me?

Even a fixed 20km control range bonus would likely help the new Amarr players who suddenly end up in a drone ship and you get to build in the cap recharge bonus in the capacitor stats instead of artificially creating a bonus just to have a bonus?

Pinky
Luscius Uta
#474 - 2012-10-03 10:38:06 UTC
I don't like the bonuses of new destroyers.
First, 10% to both drone damage and hitpoints per level is too much for ships so small and might make them even beter than Assault Frigates (why Worm and Ishur don't have same bonuses then?). I would replace it with bonus to tracking, speed and optimal range.
Next thing is that bonuses are not following standard racial bonuses that we're all familiar with - for example, why not give 5% bonuses to shield and armour resistances per level to Caldari and Amarr destroyer, respectively?

I also see that the new Amarr destroyer is going to become a mini-Curse. This is also bad. I would save the neuting bonuses for a Blood Raider destroyer, if CCP plans to introduce it one day and turn the Amarr destroyer into a rocket boat, like Heretic/Vengeance/Malediction are.
Caldari also seems overpowered with 8 launchers slots that will have the damage of ten...I guess this is CCP's way to recompensate Caldari pilots for the missile nerf. I would generally remove damage/RoF bonuses from all destroyers, since a bunch of turret/launcher slots they have acts as a built-in damage bonus.
Gallente has a bonus to Hybrid Turret optimal range which is untypical for Gallente, but it beats more common faloff bonus so I don't mind it.
And Minmatar destroyer will have missile bonuses? Screw that - every Minnie pilot would prefer bonus to Small Projectile Turret faloff instead.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Sparkus Volundar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#475 - 2012-10-03 10:47:35 UTC
Dear CCP Ytterbium,

As I understand it, the proposed bonus for the Tier2 Minmatar Destroyer has been renamed from:

Quote:
+5% to rocket and light missile explosion damage per level

to:
Quote:
+5% to rocket and light missile explosive damage per level


The possibility of un-compromised damage selection along the lines of the Winter-Issue Breacher, Winter-Issue Kestral, Winter-Issue Bellicose and the current Raven and Typhoon had looked interesting.

The above draft changes to frigates and a cruiser, plus the loss of the EM missile-bonus to the Inquisitor, imply a move away from single damage type-only missile bonuses. Please could you elaborate on why the new Minmatar and Destroyer hulls are proposed to be have a bonus to just a single damage type?

Regards,
Sparks

.

HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#476 - 2012-10-03 16:38:40 UTC
I'm still wondering why the damage specific bonuses.

I thought we were trying to get rid of damage specific on missile boats.

Any reasoning behind this?
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#477 - 2012-10-03 17:11:21 UTC
Jon Marburg wrote:
Why are we giving the caldari destroyer a +5% kinetic damage bonus when we are currently removing that bonus in favor of +5% rate of fire for all the other ships being rebalanced?


You really cannot expect ccp to do anything right the first time around... Expect this pre release error to be fixed "soon" or in 3-4 years after they are seeded on tq.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#478 - 2012-10-03 18:00:35 UTC
Update!


    Amarr:
  • Cap recharge bonus moved into the hull itself - thus capacitor recharge rate reduced from 370 to 275s
  • Role bonus changed to 25% MWD speed to drones

  • Caldari:
  • Removed one high slot and launcher slot, gained one mid slot - thus layout now is 7 / 4 / 2, 7 launchers

  • Gallente:
  • Drone bandwidth increased to 35m3
  • Drone bay increased to 60m3
  • Turret number increased from 4 to 5
  • 5% hybrid turret damage bonus per level changed for 10% hybrid turret tracking bonus per level
  • Role bonus changed from 50% hybrid turret optimal range to 25% MWD speed to drones

  • Minmatar hull unchanged.


To answer some questions that have been asked before:

  • Why having a fixed damage bonus on the Caldari and Minmatar hulls, didn't you want to move away from this philosophy?
  • Yes we definitely do, when it makes sense. For instance, we kept a kinetic damage bonus on the Condor, while the Kestrel has a generic one. In this particular case however, having general damage bonuses on these two hulls would bring them too close of each other.

  • Don't you think the Caldari hull is going to have an insane alpha with light missiles, or just too good in general?
  • The layout change will help mitigate that somewhat. If it still too much of an issue we can always revert the light missile damage change and increase the ROF on light and rapid light missile launchers instead.

  • Why is the Amarr hull better at drone management than the Gallente one?
  • That was a good point that should now be fixed. The drone bay will however stay larger on the Amarr hull as it is a trait currently encountered in Amarr versus Gallente drone ships.

  • Isn't a 25% MWD drone bonus break drones trying to catch static targets?
  • CCP Fozzie made me run some tests at gunpoint, 25% seems to be okay.

  • What's the point of the Catalyst next to the new Gallente hull?
  • We're planning some changes for it - keep an eye for them in the next days on this thread.
    Ark Anhammar
    TunDraGon
    The Initiative.
    #479 - 2012-10-03 18:06:39 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:


    Gallente:
  • Drone bandwidth increased to 35m3
  • Drone bay increased to 60m3
  • Turret number increased from 4 to 5
  • 5% hybrid turret damage bonus per level changed for 10% hybrid turret tracking bonus per level
  • Role bonus changed from 50% hybrid turret optimal range to 25% MWD speed to drones
  • It is nice to see this becoming more about drone damage projection, but the split weapon system still seems somewhat out of place for the design intent of this new Dessie.
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #480 - 2012-10-03 18:08:00 UTC
    how is 35m3 helpful? mediums against frigs are a waste of time they wont track them why odd numbers doesn't make sense just improve the drone hp/dmg bonus instead do it across the board would be useful

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using