Player Features and Ideas Discussion

What 'cross LP' actually allows is for an Amarr corp to stay in Amarr space while earning Caldari LP. If Amarr gets stuck at permanent T1 and Caldari's coasting at T4, Amarr corps can switch factions and keep doing what they're doing and get better pay for it.

The only problem of 'cross LP' for anyone is that it tends to increase the supply of Caldari (in this example) LP store products, hurting Caldari isk/LP.

The entire rest of the picture would continue to be in the picture no matter what you do to nerf cross LP, as players and corps who are in good standing in faction A can always switch to allied faction C, and back again. Waah, you say, Minmatar farmers are coming and contesting Caldari plexes because they've run out? Well it'll only takes a day for an entire corp of Minmatar farmers to become Gallente farmers and do the same thing.

I'll be frank. I haven't read the entire thread and I am coming into it late. I am also not a part of FW, but I'd like to address the "highsec nerf" that appears in between the lines:

From all I managed to gathered from past changes in EVE (I'm only playing for a year or so), reducing the desirability of highsec to promote lowsec (or nullsec or WH space) has never helped. I do not believe it will help in this case, either. People just suck up the costs or project them onto their customers. So reducing refine rates on highsec stations, or making manufacturing jobs more pricey in highsec will not make lowsec a more desirable place to live in (the latter will just encourage more cloaky transports moving about, but that's not exactly fun to anyone).

In order for lowsec space to be desirable it needs to offer something that the other space(s) do not have and does not require massive cooperation, or very expensive ships to access. The static, public low-rating complexes of lowsec (DED 1/10s and 2/10s) are a rather decent example (but most certainly are not enough). Sure, highsec has them, but they are perma-camped, typically by the same people and it is hard to dislodge them (unless you're willing to camp 24/7) since you can't just go in guns blazing. The lowsec ones are quite often spawned, rarely camped (aside of some cloaky, warpstabbed farmers, but at least you can chase them out of there with a bit of effort and deny them the resource). They are valuable enough to encourage people to go into lowsec to access them, accessible enough so that nearly anyone can try to, and visible enough to make them PvP (and/or Piracy) attractions. It is the proverbial watering hole, which is lucrative enough to draw in the prey and also visible enough to draw in the predator.

We need more things of the sort. More lowsec static plexes of varying levels? That will probably help. But we also need other things in lowsec to make it desirable to more players. Maybe even some things entirely exclusive to lowsec.

The other thing is the long, long overdue "What Happens in Lowsec, Stays in Lowsec" initiative. Cap sec status drop at -2.0 (or some other number which doesn't lock people out of highsec entirely, maybe allow it to drop so that access to 1.0,0.9 and 0.8 is eliminated, so cap at -3.5) for lowsec ship kills (Let poddings drop people as low as they like) to encourage more "weekend warriors" to wander into PvP without having to rat their sec status afterwards. The dropping sec status doesn't encourage people to just move to lowsec when it gets low, it discourages them from shooting people once it gets too low. That's bad for the amount of people in lowsec and the amount of PvP there.

TL;DR:
(Just) Nerfing highsec won't fix lowsec. Making lowsec unique will fix lowsec.

Maybe CCP could encourage more PvP in FW by dividing up the warzone into various regions that must be conquered sequentially by each faction. At the moment there appears to be too much opportunity for people to quietly plex/camp/mission in a nice quiet system far away from anything.

If you divided up the warzone in this way then people would need to focus on those systems that are being contested in order (particularly if these were the only regions where LP can be earned for plexing and missioning) and would create the concept of a 'battle front'.

Just a thought.

I think that was the idea.

I am sure all Militias will happily accept payment(s) to ensure your logistics are unaffected.

YOU FOOL!

That one question just crashed the entire tinfoil futures market .. aaaargh, my pension fund!!!

The proposed jammer will have no measurable effect even within FW. The amount of capital slug-fests is minimal and always has been due to plexes catering to everything but. Would much prefer dev time being put towards an upgrade that reinforces/encourages the smaller fights .. such as plex spawn control: pay to 'swap' one size for another.

Besides, null does not exactly jump through the busy systems (read: FW cores) and since they are probably going to be the only ones with level 5 available (see the farm dat ****! thread in W&T) it is a non-issue.

I too find it hard to believe this argument won the day. Yet it did.

Certain players in the minmatar militia claimed they were being punished for holding systems. "Poor minmatar had it so rough with inferno something needed to be done."

Yet here we have it. They will now be able to farm defensive and offensive plexes.

Again: That's what I already said back in May. What is still missing is the aspect of 'diminishing returns' mentioned by the Devs. I like the proposed system far better than the old one, but it looks like diminishing returns is not implemented yet, so the pendulum has no real momentum to swing back for the losing side. While it may be funny for a while to rule a region, it quickly becomes boring pvp-wise. And as FW is all about PvP, this aspect has to be prioritized.

Just my 2 ct

Time will tell.

Alot of people are assuming that the plex farmer population is going to remain constant and that's just a bad assumption. If you raise the price of admittance and lower the reward - some people will decide that circling buttons isn't worth it anymore.

Here is another math blog that somewhat refutes Susan Black's:

Greedy Goblin's Blog

Essentially the current system allows higher tiers to halve or quarter not only the LP cost of an item but also the Isk cost as well. The post-winter FW system will only give you an LP benefit. The higher tiers will not give as big a bang - but the lower tiers also won't get a double penalty either.

Essentially the success or failure comes down to certain areas of concern:
Mission Running
'Foreign' Offensive Plexing.
The Bleed Rate from Offensive plexing.

One side will conquer a system and upgrade it to tier V. The other side, given no opposition, can come in and plex it to vulnerable. The new system makes it so that the system will not lose it's Tier One status until almost the point that it becomes vulnerable - 95% - 100% contested. Should the Minmatar swing by when it's at 50% and re-commit LP to the I-Hub, it could stay at least at Tier 3 until the system falls. My thoughts are that the contested level, upgrade level, and bleed rate should be related. Should the Minmatar do the above example, the Amarr militia should have a higher bleed rate going for them until they get back through tier 4 and 5 to tier 3 again.

I am not sure if this is in response to what I posted but the numbers in Susan's blog are not effected by the numbers of people who plex.

Regardless of how many, or few, people are plexing everyone who wants more isk will join the winning side.


They have removed the only balance in the system - no lp for defensive plexing.

Even a horrible poster can understand how this is broken.

CCP made some changes in inferno 1.0. They are now supposed to tweak the new system and address the other parts that weren't addressed at all.

Instead they are replacing the entire tier system with something even less thought through.

Please CCP put away the fecal catapult hoping that some of what you fling will stick.

Instead really think this through and get a handle on the real problems.