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New T1 tackle frigs vs Interceptors: Why use an Inty Anymore?
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#1 - 2012-08-16 21:35:21 UTC
I have been playing around in the new EFT, and I am stunned by the numbers.
I have noticed the base speeds of the T1 ships have not changed much, but the additional slots make the interceptors pretty much useless in my opinion.

Two fits, and only partial at that, comparing a Slasher to a Stiletto, with max skills.

Slasher:
Top speed with Overheat: 6117 m / s, perma-run everything.
Base sig: 30
Tackle Range as fitted : 20 km
Total Tank: 2061
Align time: 2.2 sec
Scan res: 1175
Sensor Strength: 7

Stiletto:
Top speed with Overheat: 6681 m / s, run 3 min, 5 sec.
Base sig: 31
Tackle Range as fitted : 25 km
Total Tank: 3017
Align time: 2.5 sec
Scan res: 1156.3
Sensor Strength: 9

Tank is superior on the T2 ship, but with these small tackle ships, tank is basically speed and maneuverability.
What I am seeing is the inty is slightly superior in speed, tank and sensor strength, and tackling range, while the T1 version is more maneuverable, and that is with an empty rig slot.
And if you make the assumption that the inty must get within 10 km to use the webifier, the 25% increase in point range is negated.

Given the expected survivability of a tackle ship, is it really with the extra cost?
A Stiletto hull is going for 25.6M in Jita, a Slasher hull for 324,000, a ratio of 82:1.

[Stiletto, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Overdrive Injector System II

Faint Warp Disruptor I
Stasis Webifier II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket

Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I


[Slasher, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Script
Stasis Webifier II

200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
[empty high slot]

Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
[empty rig slot]
Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
#2 - 2012-08-16 21:49:05 UTC
MWD sig bonus.

"The Cyclone and the Drake are two ships which will basically never be good for shield tanking, primarily because they have almost no lowslots in addition to shield tanking bonuses. " -Iam Widdershins
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#3 - 2012-08-16 21:57:21 UTC
1) CCP Fozzie mentioned today that interceptors may not get redone in time for winter. That statement indicated they are on the list though.
2) A Stiletto with a T2 warp disruptors can tackle out to 30km. Interceptors are still much smaller while using a MWD.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#4 - 2012-08-16 21:57:26 UTC
Bill Serkoff2 wrote:
MWD sig bonus.


Agreed on that point: 69.8 compared to 180 is huge.
But given that most tackle pilots spiral in and use transversal velocity, plus you might turn the MwD off IF you get in REALLY tight, I am not sure that is as valuable.

Bottom line, does the huge difference in costs justify the Inty over the T1 version?
I guess the market will decide, but I just can't see it.
Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
#5 - 2012-08-16 22:01:33 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Bill Serkoff2 wrote:
MWD sig bonus.


Agreed on that point: 69.8 compared to 180 is huge.
But given that most tackle pilots spiral in and use transversal velocity, plus you might turn the MwD off IF you get in REALLY tight, I am not sure that is as valuable.

Bottom line, does the huge difference in costs justify the Inty over the T1 version?
I guess the market will decide, but I just can't see it.

It will after the universal rebalance.

"The Cyclone and the Drake are two ships which will basically never be good for shield tanking, primarily because they have almost no lowslots in addition to shield tanking bonuses. " -Iam Widdershins
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#6 - 2012-08-16 22:26:59 UTC
The MWD sig bonus and point range come to mind. To me the question you should be asking is why anyone would fly a Crusader now that the Executioner exists. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-08-17 07:21:39 UTC
One more low, 70-ish% less signature when MWDing, a bit faster, better resistances, and greatly increased tackle range.

Sounds pretty good in my book for 25 millions.

If you did not agree before, you had to HTFU and still buy an Stiletto. Now you can choose.

Hooray.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#8 - 2012-08-17 10:10:22 UTC
If are just talking about getting and holding a point at something then the MWD sig bonus is the thing that makes the difference. Once people get used that more and more guys are using T1 Slashers (etc.) for long range tackling people will start fitting more and more missiles for their utility high slot. And then you will feel the difference between Slasher and Stiletto.

If you think about solo or small group then you will prefer a scram and want then to do some damage too. Look at the Claw then and notice the huge difference in DPS output.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#9 - 2012-08-17 13:08:36 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
The MWD sig bonus and point range come to mind. To me the question you should be asking is why anyone would fly a Crusader now that the Executioner exists. :)

-Liang


Exactly.

These new tier 2 frigs do everything the combat-ceptors should do. Including fixing the claw's pointless slot layout - i'd fly a slasher over a claw anyday now.
Jim Tudeski
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-08-17 23:15:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jim Tudeski
Meditril wrote:
If you think about solo or small group then you will prefer a scram and want then to do some damage too. Look at the Claw then and notice the huge difference in DPS output.

2 whole DPS while sacrificing targeting range, speed, maneuverability and a web is worth it over the Slasher, right? Here, 2 fits for you to compare.
[Slasher, Combat Inty lolol]
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small Nosferatu II

Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

4,521m/s, 100 DPS, 4,580 EHP, has a web, 28.13km targeting range and a 4.2s align time with MWD on. Not to mention it's cheap as hell.

[Claw, Solo]
Internal Force Field Array I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small Nosferatu II

Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I

102 DPS, 3,717m/s, 5.5 second align time, 7,370 EHP, No AB or web(2 mid slots ftw?), 21.88km targeting range. Not to mention it can't fit any damage mods because of its anemic CPU. Might as well use a Jag in this case.

[Jaguar, Dual Prop]
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small Nosferatu II

Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I

134 DPS, 10,292 EHP, 3,555m/s, 4.7s align time, 46.88km targeting range and the best part? It's dual prop.

Or

[Jaguar, Dual Prop 2 Gyros]
Gyrostabilizer II
Internal Force Field Array I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Gyrostabilizer II

Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small Nosferatu II

Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I

161 DPS, 3,249m/s and 5.5s align time.

[Jaguar, MASB]
Gyrostabilizer II
Internal Force Field Array I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small Nosferatu II

Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I


For extra lulz, same DPS and speed as the first setup but a 218 DPS tank for sacrificing 4k EHP.

Anyway, that's all.


P.S. OP, Stiletto > the Slasher. Also stay the hell out of web and neut range in a tackle Inty otherwise you are just going to die an LOL worthy death.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#11 - 2012-08-17 23:44:57 UTC
Ceptor pilots still are getting much greater benefits over tech1 crap, than me and my NH used to.

I'd LOVE to see Titans and Moms finally being balanced that way, too, so that they are only marginally better than cheap-ass stuff.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#12 - 2012-08-18 00:06:44 UTC
[quote=Jim Tudeski

P.S. OP, Stiletto > the Slasher. Also stay the hell out of web and neut range in a tackle Inty otherwise you are just going to die an LOL worthy death.[/quote]


Yeah, I get the neut range of 25.2 km on heavy ships .
But I am not sure just how many ships can afford a mid slot for webs and point, at least shield ships.
And yeah, I don't think many small ships try to tackle Curses.

My basic point was is a Stiletto worth it compared to a Slasher when the hull costs 82 times as much?
I just don't think the advantages of 5 km (pre-overheat) of point range and the MwD sig bonus are worth the huge extra cost.
Jim Tudeski
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-08-18 00:18:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jim Tudeski
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Jim Tudeski wrote:


P.S. OP, Stiletto > the Slasher. Also stay the hell out of web and neut range in a tackle Inty otherwise you are just going to die an LOL worthy death.



Yeah, I get the neut range of 25.2 km on heavy ships .
But I am not sure just how many ships can afford a mid slot for webs and point, at least shield ships.
And yeah, I don't think many small ships try to tackle Curses.

My basic point was is a Stiletto worth it compared to a Slasher when the hull costs 82 times as much?
I just don't think the advantages of 5 km (pre-overheat) of point range and the MwD sig bonus are worth the huge extra cost.

[Stiletto, Tackle]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
[empty high slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ionic Field Projector I

30km point range(36km overheated), 39.06km targeting range, 1,850mm scan res, 4.5k EHP, 5,340m/s without overheating. Not worth it? Stay out of web range, stay out of scram range and stay out of neut range. It's really not hard if you are at least halfway competent and well worth the increase in price.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#14 - 2012-08-18 00:39:56 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
My basic point was is a Stiletto worth it compared to a Slasher when the hull costs 82 times as much?


82 ISK is 82 times 1 ISK, but that doesn't mean I worry about either price point.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#15 - 2012-08-18 03:28:10 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
The MWD sig bonus and point range come to mind. To me the question you should be asking is why anyone would fly a Crusader now that the Executioner exists. :)

-Liang



My Crusader is currently all cleaned up and on display mounted on a slowly spinning stand on loan to Johnny Rocket Burger's, until the balance pass at Inties is done. The Executioner is ... well... yeah.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Cpt Branko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-08-19 10:46:06 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

My basic point was is a Stiletto worth it compared to a Slasher when the hull costs 82 times as much?
I just don't think the advantages of 5 km (pre-overheat) of point range and the MwD sig bonus are worth the huge extra cost.


Yeah. I mean, the MWD bonus by itself is huge and makes a lot of difference in how long you can stick in the field when tackling something which can hit you (eg, AC Hurricane for instance). The Stilleto will simply live much longer then the Slasher when tackling.

Extra point range is also useful. I'd say it's worth it - I'd take tackling and living in a Stilleto over dying in a (t2 fit) t1 frig and the target running away.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#17 - 2012-08-19 10:58:22 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
My basic point was is a Stiletto worth it compared to a Slasher when the hull costs 82 times as much?


82 ISK is 82 times 1 ISK, but that doesn't mean I worry about either price point.

-Liang


And in 0.0 where you hardly engage that price is justified for the small benefit. You know yourself though, in losec its all about having the ability to reship during a fight... and those costs soon mount up.
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-08-19 12:00:50 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
My basic point was is a Stiletto worth it compared to a Slasher when the hull costs 82 times as much?


82 ISK is 82 times 1 ISK, but that doesn't mean I worry about either price point.

-Liang


And in 0.0 where you hardly engage that price is justified for the small benefit. You know yourself though, in losec its all about having the ability to reship during a fight... and those costs soon mount up.


I don't think I've ever reshipped during a fight in lowsec.

Also extended point range and mwd sig bonus are basically everything Interceptors are about. Removing them makes the t1 Frigs only a pale shadow for gang fights (as it should be)
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-08-19 12:40:31 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Bill Serkoff2 wrote:
MWD sig bonus.


Agreed on that point: 69.8 compared to 180 is huge.


Difference between both?

An arty cane insta pops T1 while T2 says "bye" laughing unless the pilot is an idiot (happens frequently)

brb
Jude Lloyd
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-08-19 22:29:21 UTC
The answer is: Don't use Interceptors... Not right now at least.

I'm back!
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