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New modules tooltips ....

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Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#201 - 2012-08-09 15:12:06 UTC
Roime wrote:
So, how is the drone UI fix doing? It's desperately needed.

Tooltips that don't give any info that wasn't available before (turrets) we're maybe not so much needed.


Last I heard any news about it was in CSM Minutes. If I remember right, they were shown something, and it looked good. Also they're going to iterate is by adding rather than replacing, or so the Minutes said (again, if I remember right), which means they are planning to build stuff on top of the old shoddy drone UI, which is problematic. In other words - it'll likely be a nice long while yet.

But back to the topic of tooltips. What is this aversion to giving players options? In a sandbox game that's all about choice at that? Give people an option to switch them off, to switch some off, etc.

While we're at it, someone earlier here said if you can't read the font, you need glasses. How about letting people choose fonts and font sizes? People often toot the horn that EVE is the second largest paid western MMO. And it doesn't have the option to change fonts or tweak size even on something as trivial as tooltips? Come on now, that's just silly.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#202 - 2012-08-09 15:20:55 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
so i patched and i cant see the option to turn this off..

why isnt it there yet, you said you had it ready yesterday


She said that she had implemented it, not that it had been checked into the code base and been approved by the various people to go live.

The Drake is a Lie
Tlat Ij
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#203 - 2012-08-09 15:43:02 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Jess Maine wrote:
Is it REALLY that hard to code an option to turn them on and off? Really?

Nope... it seemed to be pretty easy when I added it earlier todayP
But, if we don't need it, there is no need to clutter the settings and code with it.

Let's not panic people... we are looking into this Smile

I would like either the ability to turn them off or change what info they show. The tooltips show things that I already know, or don't care about and don't need to be shown like module name, dps, but not things I check a lot like tracking. I also think they are ridiculously huge and could use having the text shrunk down a size or two and most of the empty space removed.

Also, I really don't see why you can't just add it in so that people who don't want them can turn it off and people who do what them can leave them on and everybody is happy.
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
#204 - 2012-08-09 16:03:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Sephira Galamore
For those asking why they don't simply add the option to turn it off/on / what the drawback is:

It's one more piece of code to maintain and document and most importantly.. to test!
On one hand people complain when odd bugs appear after updates. Then people complain why adding a simple option is worth so much fuzz over.

You do realize, that with every new option / function in a game, the required test cases increase? Up to 100% per option, if you want to be absolutely sure there are no side-effects. Which becomes increasingly more difficult as a codebase grows.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#205 - 2012-08-09 16:29:11 UTC
Sephira Galamore wrote:
For those asking why they don't simply add the option to turn it off/on / what the drawback is:

It's one more piece of code to maintain and document and most importantly.. to test!
On one hand people complain when odd bugs appear after updates. Then people complain why adding a simple option is worth so much fuzz over.

You do realize, that with every new option / function in a game, the required test cases increase? Up to 100% per option, if you want to be absolutely sure there are no side-effects. Which becomes increasingly more difficult as a codebase grows.



by that logic, they shouldnt have added this to the game in the first place, its just a pointless bit of fluffy that only shows info that was already avalible in the fitting tool or by show info on the mod.

OMG when can i get a pic here
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
#206 - 2012-08-09 16:38:55 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
Sephira Galamore wrote:
For those asking why they don't simply add the option to turn it off/on / what the drawback is:

It's one more piece of code to maintain and document and most importantly.. to test!
On one hand people complain when odd bugs appear after updates. Then people complain why adding a simple option is worth so much fuzz over.

You do realize, that with every new option / function in a game, the required test cases increase? Up to 100% per option, if you want to be absolutely sure there are no side-effects. Which becomes increasingly more difficult as a codebase grows.

by that logic, they shouldnt have added this to the game in the first place, its just a pointless bit of fluffy that only shows info that was already avalible in the fitting tool or by show info on the mod.

This had nothing to do with my logic but everything with your opinion.

Also, I never said that they shouldn't introduce the option (altho I wouldnt need it), I simply stated why it's not as simple as it seems.

Obviously it was CCP opinion that introducing the popups was worth the trouble. Whether introducing an option now is worth it is obviously beeing discussed just now.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#207 - 2012-08-09 16:39:43 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
Sephira Galamore wrote:
For those asking why they don't simply add the option to turn it off/on / what the drawback is:

It's one more piece of code to maintain and document and most importantly.. to test!
On one hand people complain when odd bugs appear after updates. Then people complain why adding a simple option is worth so much fuzz over.

You do realize, that with every new option / function in a game, the required test cases increase? Up to 100% per option, if you want to be absolutely sure there are no side-effects. Which becomes increasingly more difficult as a codebase grows.



by that logic, they shouldnt have added this to the game in the first place, its just a pointless bit of fluffy that only shows info that was already avalible in the fitting tool or by show info on the mod.


It is however important for on the fly decision making when getting boosted by a tracking link or getting hit by a tracking disruptor, or when changing ammo types a lot.

The Drake is a Lie
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#208 - 2012-08-09 16:54:04 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Jess Maine wrote:
Is it REALLY that hard to code an option to turn them on and off? Really?

Nope... it seemed to be pretty easy when I added it earlier todayP
But, if we don't need it, there is no need to clutter the settings and code with it.

Let's not panic people... we are looking into this Smile


I can handle settings clutter very well. I only have to go through that once, assuming you don't delete my settings or allow me to save them on my HD. I have trouble handling the constant UI misery your current UI designers feel the need to inflict upon us. A good UI is all about options and adaptability to the needs and workflow of the users. There is never one way of implementing things, that won't be a problem for a significant percentage of the playerbase. If the additional settings and code needed to achieve this is really being a problem for you, please free up the UI for modding and let us do the work for you. I'll take player made UI mods over the "one/our way or the highway" -UI design philosophy anyday of the week.

Don't take this the wrong way. It's not a thing that I have to have my way or I'll ragequit. It's just something I dislike, but can deal with. The problem is, that instead of having a good and enjoyable UI, it's yet another constant source of paper cuts I'll have to endure to enjoy the rest of the game. With more options/adaptibility or UI modding the UI would be a source of strength, that makes playing the game even more enjoyable, instead of the detriment it currently often is.
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#209 - 2012-08-09 17:06:54 UTC
Tbh, all these past, present (and perhaps future) UI issues and public rage can be solved by developing and opening up an UI modding API to users (or 3rd party) so CCP can just concentrate on managing the API functionality and access instead of building their own and coming up with fixes and "adjustments" every time they release new stuff.

I'm curious as to why CCP haven't decided to pursue this path already. :(

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Ginger Barbarella
#210 - 2012-08-09 17:08:10 UTC
Not gonna repeat the annoyance already expressed in this thread.

Being able to shut off these tooltips = win.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Cray47
Doomheim
#211 - 2012-08-09 17:20:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Cray47
Sarah Schneider wrote:
Tbh, all these past, present (and perhaps future) UI issues and public rage can be solved by developing and opening up an UI modding API to users (or 3rd party) so CCP can just concentrate on managing the API functionality and access instead of building their own and coming up with fixes and "adjustments" every time they release new stuff.

I'm curious as to why CCP haven't decided to pursue this path already. :(


I think that the posibility of customising the ui by 3rd parties would make things easier for bots....

[u]Hi[/u]
Blane Xero
The Firestorm Cartel
#212 - 2012-08-09 17:26:52 UTC
Cray47 wrote:
Sarah Schneider wrote:
Tbh, all these past, present (and perhaps future) UI issues and public rage can be solved by developing and opening up an UI modding API to users (or 3rd party) so CCP can just concentrate on managing the API functionality and access instead of building their own and coming up with fixes and "adjustments" every time they release new stuff.

I'm curious as to why CCP haven't decided to pursue this path already. :(


I think that the posibility of customising the ui by 3rd parties would make things easier for bots....

You have no idea how easy it is to bot with the current UI. As someone who teaching himself LUA, its always going to be easy to bot and you should never make a UI more punishing to those who have to deal with it because you might otherwise make it easier for those who don't to continue not caring.

Resident Haruhiist since December 2008.

Laying claim to Out of Pod Experience since 2007, plain and simple. Keep the trash out of [u]Out Of Pod Experience[/u], If it's EVE Related or deserves a Lock, it does not belong here.
Rengerel en Distel
#213 - 2012-08-09 17:38:12 UTC
Blane Xero wrote:
Cray47 wrote:
Sarah Schneider wrote:
Tbh, all these past, present (and perhaps future) UI issues and public rage can be solved by developing and opening up an UI modding API to users (or 3rd party) so CCP can just concentrate on managing the API functionality and access instead of building their own and coming up with fixes and "adjustments" every time they release new stuff.

I'm curious as to why CCP haven't decided to pursue this path already. :(


I think that the posibility of customising the ui by 3rd parties would make things easier for bots....

You have no idea how easy it is to bot with the current UI. As someone who teaching himself LUA, its always going to be easy to bot and you should never make a UI more punishing to those who have to deal with it because you might otherwise make it easier for those who don't to continue not caring.


I think they haven't opened up the UI to 3rd parties because they have shown repeatedly that they know what is best for every player that plays the game. Those that like it some other way are just unreasonable, and should bow down to the perfection of their idea.
It's a silly way to run a gaming company, when you outright say that feedback given during testing is ignored because not everyone said the same thing.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Blane Xero
The Firestorm Cartel
#214 - 2012-08-09 17:42:22 UTC
That's not a silly way to run a gaming company, a silly way to run a gaming company is to manufacture code where a "light-switch" can be considered code bloat.

I was under the impression that the whole point behind the new UI was to make modular, self contained code that did what it was supposed to and didn't interfere with anything else.

Resident Haruhiist since December 2008.

Laying claim to Out of Pod Experience since 2007, plain and simple. Keep the trash out of [u]Out Of Pod Experience[/u], If it's EVE Related or deserves a Lock, it does not belong here.
Hojou
EVE University
Ivy League
#215 - 2012-08-09 17:52:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Hojou
Destination SkillQueue wrote:

I can handle settings clutter very well. I only have to go through that once... I have trouble handling the constant UI misery... A good UI is all about options and adaptability.... There is never one way of implementing things, that won't be a problem for a significant percentage of the playerbase...

With more options/adaptibility... the UI would be a source of strength... instead of the detriment it currently often is.


This.
grizzlemethis
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#216 - 2012-08-10 03:58:27 UTC
For the love of all things fix this mouse over module crap, I dont want it delayed i want the ability to turn the **** off. Annoying as hell. This is bad mmmkay
Falkia
Black.King.Bar
#217 - 2012-08-10 04:17:51 UTC
The problem I have with my new tooltips is they randomly appear in the top left corner of my screen for no reason obviously a bug hopefully fixed soon.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#218 - 2012-08-10 04:46:47 UTC
I want to see a more compact version of the tool tip. what I don't need is for the tool tip to tell me that my gun is a tachyon beam laser II and my ammo is Imperial Navy Multifrequency L. what I do want to see is the optimal and falloff (and raw falloff while were at it, the tooltip seems to imply my nightmare has 84km of falloff)!

with hardeners/reps maybe just say the name, for extra info maybe show the resists or rep per sec, I don't need to see a picture of the mod that is right there.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#219 - 2012-08-10 05:01:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
The tooltips also appear on top of the module right-click menu, when your HUD is aligned to top.

How cool is that! Who would need to see a right-click menu when changing ammo, when they can admire redundant info in a huge black rectangle.

Yes, redundant, ammo type and amount are clearly visible with one glance at the module icon without hovering, and optimal+falloff clearly visible on the tactical overview when hovering over the module.


EDIT: Pardon this whining tone, but the modules and the way we interact with them is the most important part of the whole game, and the user interface. Major changes like this shouldn't simply pushed to Tranquility untested and without the option to turn them off.

.
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#220 - 2012-08-10 11:09:59 UTC
We updated the new module button tooltips today, Friday, in Inferno 1.2.2, based on your feedback.

Please find information on the new and updated tooltips in this post from CCP Soundwave: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=142498

We'd love to hear your feedback on today's update in that thread.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer