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Incarna/WiS Disappointment

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Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#701 - 2012-08-03 06:38:53 UTC
Honestly if they just got rid of the NeX store they'd have the full support of players like myself.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#702 - 2012-08-03 06:40:46 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
There is always the possibility that it was decided to release the social areas, delaying the exploration content, and thats why the exploration content blog got blocked.


i love how you think, but in this fugly universe the people who thinks like me are mostly right most of the time.

Just wait to see what happens to EVE next year, when the Goons will be gone.

Where are the goons going and why would they leave? Based on their past actions I see so much more people of the mind of the goons would do......


The abridged version is this: Mittens is growing bored with EVE.

The long version is quite long and consists of a good amount of my little talent for intuitive thinking. It's not something I would bet money on (any previously unknown bit of information could blow the cards house), but it's been growing solid so far. Probably Mittens will make his mind for stealing the show during Fanfest 2013.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Pipa Porto
#703 - 2012-08-03 06:48:25 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
^^THIS. I mean the point is, they DID just put out a dirty useless room. It was crap. The players saw right throught it. CCP learned a lesson, and seems hellbent on NOT making this same mistake twice. EVE players are demanding. We expect meaningful interaction, not simply an emote platform. From what we saw at the summit this is very much the goal, even if it means later rather than sooner. If they put out establishments too hastily, and fall short of expectations like they did with Incarna, I kinda feel its game over. They'll never invest money in it again after that. CCP is probably going to play their cards close to their chest for a while and feel free to experiment a little until they find that intersection between meaningful and achievable.


I think Hans the ever-surprised has hit the nail on the head here.

The clear focus on holding off specifics/timelines/demos until they have real gameplay to offer and real tools for interaction is suggestive of CCP's understanding that they only get one more shot at this, and I take heart in it.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#704 - 2012-08-03 07:03:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
hey guys you want some cheese with all that whine?
TA is working on wis, nothing has changed except for the delay of the devblog.
I don't know what the big deal is, don't tell me you've never dealt with arbitrary "corporate" or "management" crap because "it's just how things work" IRL.

They could just put out something quick and dirty, like a useless room where dressed up avatars can emote each other, but fortunately that is not the CCP way. I imagine when it is released with good content and gameplay, we will all be shocked and awed like when we first started playing EVE, at least that is what I've come to expect from CCP.


^^THIS. I mean the point is, they DID just put out a dirty useless room. It was crap. The players saw right throught it. CCP learned a lesson, and seems hellbent on NOT making this same mistake twice. EVE players are demanding. We expect meaningful interaction, not simply an emote platform. From what we saw at the summit this is very much the goal, even if it means later rather than sooner. If they put out establishments too hastily, and fall short of expectations like they did with Incarna, I kinda feel its game over. They'll never invest money in it again after that. CCP is probably going to play their cards close to their chest for a while and feel free to experiment a little until they find that intersection between meaningful and achievable.


That's supposing that they have that much time left.

Which is very, very, very, unlikely

You know how this silence smells? Smells like WiS just has lost any chance to get a slot in the 2013 production schedule. Meaning that it will have to wait for 2014 unless a miracle happens.

But then, how long was the time between Apochrypha and the FiS debacle? 2 years?

And CCP's only chance is that in 2014, two years from now, the people who they pissed off one year ago still wlll be around to see them start working on WiS in a "meaningful" way so it delivers in 2015... FOUR years too late.

Come on. That will not happen, and no sensible corporate management makes plans for what will not happen.

The WiS train is gone. CCP's only chance was the fast and dirty way. 4 years after Incarna, there will not be anyone left to still care about WiS.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#705 - 2012-08-03 07:09:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Mechael
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
The WiS train is gone. CCP's only chance was the fast and dirty way. 4 years after Incarna, there will not be anyone left to still care about WiS.


Lots of truth in everything else you said, but I think we disagree on this part. EVE still offers what is by far the richest gameplay of any MMO in existence. Even years ago it was still light years ahead of where other MMOs are today. Where else can I go to get an EVE-like experience from an MMO? Somewhere incredibly player driven, single-sharded, science fiction simulator?

People will still be here until something else that offers this experience comes along and does it better.

EDIT: And by better I mean spectacularly better, not just a clone with a makeover.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Pipa Porto
#706 - 2012-08-03 07:12:23 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
hey guys you want some cheese with all that whine?
TA is working on wis, nothing has changed except for the delay of the devblog.
I don't know what the big deal is, don't tell me you've never dealt with arbitrary "corporate" or "management" crap because "it's just how things work" IRL.

They could just put out something quick and dirty, like a useless room where dressed up avatars can emote each other, but fortunately that is not the CCP way. I imagine when it is released with good content and gameplay, we will all be shocked and awed like when we first started playing EVE, at least that is what I've come to expect from CCP.


^^THIS. I mean the point is, they DID just put out a dirty useless room. It was crap. The players saw right throught it. CCP learned a lesson, and seems hellbent on NOT making this same mistake twice. EVE players are demanding. We expect meaningful interaction, not simply an emote platform. From what we saw at the summit this is very much the goal, even if it means later rather than sooner. If they put out establishments too hastily, and fall short of expectations like they did with Incarna, I kinda feel its game over. They'll never invest money in it again after that. CCP is probably going to play their cards close to their chest for a while and feel free to experiment a little until they find that intersection between meaningful and achievable.


That's supposing that they have that much time left.

Which is very, very, very, unlikely

You know how this silence smells? Smells like WiS just has lost any chance to get a slot in the 2013 production schedule. Meaning that it will have to wait for 2014 unless a miracle happens.

But then, how long was the time between Apochrypha and the FiS debacle? 2 years?

And CCP's only chance is that in 2014, two years from now, the people who they pissed off one year ago still wlll be around to see them start working on WiS in a "meaningful" way so it delivers in 2015... FOUR years too late.

Come on. That will not happen, and no sensible corporate management makes plans for what will not happen.

The WiS train is gone. CCP's only chance was the fast and dirty way. 4 years after Incarna, there will not be anyone left to still care about WiS.


Ambulation was announced in 2006. Incarna was announced to quite a bit of eagerness some 5 years later.

Seems that people can be patient when the game they play is slow about adding an entire other game. When the game they play doesn't add any significant content to the core gameplay ("FIS") for several years, on the other hand, they get antsy.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#707 - 2012-08-03 07:18:47 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ambulation was announced in 2006. Incarna was announced to quite a bit of eagerness some 5 years later.

Seems that people can be patient when the game they play is slow about adding an entire other game. When the game they play doesn't add any significant content to the core gameplay ("FIS") for several years, on the other hand, they get antsy.


See, now that's the part I don't get ... all of the expansions leading up to Incarna were "FiS" expansions, weren't they? Sov overhaul with Dominion (sadly still hasn't been finished,) PI with Tyrannis (arguable, but I'd call that core game mechanics as it put a lot of production into the hands of the players that previously had not been,) Incursions ...

I don't see where that rage comes from. The apparent rage about neglecting "FiS" features. Granted, a lot of them do (and have always) needed some serious tender loving care, but they were being worked on. Saying that they weren't just seems blatantly false to me, unless I'm missing something.

The way I remember things, the primary rage about Incarna was monoclegate. Putting a cash shop in EVE to milk us like cows. Greed is good. All that jazz. The fact that the actual WiS part wasn't even really any new gameplay was just the icing on the cake.

It was real. I was there. Pirate

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Pipa Porto
#708 - 2012-08-03 07:28:04 UTC
Mechael wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ambulation was announced in 2006. Incarna was announced to quite a bit of eagerness some 5 years later.

Seems that people can be patient when the game they play is slow about adding an entire other game. When the game they play doesn't add any significant content to the core gameplay ("FIS") for several years, on the other hand, they get antsy.


See, now that's the part I don't get ... all of the expansions leading up to Incarna were "FiS" expansions, weren't they? Sov overhaul with Dominion (sadly still hasn't been finished,) PI with Tyrannis (arguable, but I'd call that core game mechanics as it put a lot of production into the hands of the players that previously had not been,) Incursions ...

I don't see where that rage comes from. The apparent rage about neglecting "FiS" features. Granted, a lot of them do (and have always) needed some serious tender loving care, but they were being worked on. Saying that they weren't just seems blatantly false to me, unless I'm missing something.

The way I remember things, the primary rage about Incarna was monoclegate. Putting a cash shop in EVE to milk us like cows. Greed is good. All that jazz. The fact that the actual WiS part wasn't even really any new gameplay was just the icing on the cake.

It was real. I was there. Pirate


Dominion was Sov mechanics (and barely half done). (and the time that I count as the start of :18months:)
PI was a pitiful excuse for an industrial expansion.
Incursion was new missions and the intro to Incarna.

Look at the scale of those expansions compared to those that came before it and you'll see exactly why we felt shortchanged. Apocrypha had WHs. Apocrypha was a bigger FIS expansion than all three of those combined.

Greed is good was part of it, "Micro"-Transactions was part of it, but :18months: was the kicker that pushed most people I know over the edge.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#709 - 2012-08-03 07:35:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mechael
Pipa Porto wrote:
Mechael wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ambulation was announced in 2006. Incarna was announced to quite a bit of eagerness some 5 years later.

Seems that people can be patient when the game they play is slow about adding an entire other game. When the game they play doesn't add any significant content to the core gameplay ("FIS") for several years, on the other hand, they get antsy.


See, now that's the part I don't get ... all of the expansions leading up to Incarna were "FiS" expansions, weren't they? Sov overhaul with Dominion (sadly still hasn't been finished,) PI with Tyrannis (arguable, but I'd call that core game mechanics as it put a lot of production into the hands of the players that previously had not been,) Incursions ...

I don't see where that rage comes from. The apparent rage about neglecting "FiS" features. Granted, a lot of them do (and have always) needed some serious tender loving care, but they were being worked on. Saying that they weren't just seems blatantly false to me, unless I'm missing something.

The way I remember things, the primary rage about Incarna was monoclegate. Putting a cash shop in EVE to milk us like cows. Greed is good. All that jazz. The fact that the actual WiS part wasn't even really any new gameplay was just the icing on the cake.

It was real. I was there. Pirate


Dominion was Sov mechanics (and barely half done). (and the time that I count as the start of :18months:)
PI was a pitiful excuse for an industrial expansion.
Incursion was new missions and the intro to Incarna.

Look at the scale of those expansions compared to those that came before it and you'll see exactly why we felt shortchanged. Apocrypha had WHs. Apocrypha was a bigger FIS expansion than all three of those combined.

Greed is good was part of it, "Micro"-Transactions was part of it, but :18months: was the kicker that pushed most people I know over the edge.


Guess we had different experiences. A lot of the people I knew/know (more knew than know, sadly) would have been happy to wait it out for excellent ambulation gameplay. The real reason most of us (my crew) left was because of the cash shop. The more the real-world wallets impact the simulation, the less of a simulation it is. Taking a look at, as one example, Zynga's stocks currently just goes to show that the fear of the F2P/P2W style games is justified. A direct exchange of cash for virtual pants (or golden ammo, doesn't much matter which from this particular perspective) is insulting. Reminded us all of how companies like Zynga think of their player base. We didn't matter to CCP anymore beyond being dumb-as-brick **** to suckle off of. And more importantly, it looked (and still looks) like EVE itself was just becoming such a vehicle.

I'm actually very sad about DUST's revenue model. I'd actually be interested in the game if it wasn't for that.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Ghazu
#710 - 2012-08-03 07:51:18 UTC
Mechael wrote:

Guess we had different experiences. A lot of the people I knew/know (more knew than know, sadly) would have been happy to wait it out for excellent ambulation gameplay. The real reason most of us (my crew) left was because of the cash shop. The more the real-world wallets impact the simulation, the less of a simulation it is. Taking a look at, as one example, Zynga's stocks currently just goes to show that the fear of the F2P/P2W style games is justified. A direct exchange of cash for virtual pants (or golden ammo, doesn't much matter which from this particular perspective) is insulting. Reminded us all of how companies like Zynga think of their player base. We didn't matter to CCP anymore beyond being dumb-as-brick **** to suckle off of. And more importantly, it looked (and still looks) like EVE itself was just becoming such a vehicle.

I'm actually very sad about DUST's revenue model. I'd actually be interested in the game if it wasn't for that.


I don't understand why NEX is a problem, it just means more money to CCP from those willing to pay for it. As long as NEX items are vanity only who cares? It's not like you have to buy it, or suffer in-game disadvantage if you don't.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#711 - 2012-08-03 07:54:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mechael
Ghazu wrote:
Mechael wrote:

Guess we had different experiences. A lot of the people I knew/know (more knew than know, sadly) would have been happy to wait it out for excellent ambulation gameplay. The real reason most of us (my crew) left was because of the cash shop. The more the real-world wallets impact the simulation, the less of a simulation it is. Taking a look at, as one example, Zynga's stocks currently just goes to show that the fear of the F2P/P2W style games is justified. A direct exchange of cash for virtual pants (or golden ammo, doesn't much matter which from this particular perspective) is insulting. Reminded us all of how companies like Zynga think of their player base. We didn't matter to CCP anymore beyond being dumb-as-brick **** to suckle off of. And more importantly, it looked (and still looks) like EVE itself was just becoming such a vehicle.

I'm actually very sad about DUST's revenue model. I'd actually be interested in the game if it wasn't for that.


I don't understand why NEX is a problem, it just means more money to CCP from those willing to pay for it. As long as NEX items are vanity only who cares? It's not like you have to buy it, or suffer in-game disadvantage if you don't.


I know. Very few people who have actually stayed aboard get it, otherwise they'd have left, too. PLEX was bad enough, and even before PLEX the need to purchase alternate accounts was still there. If you think of EVE as more of a simulator and less of "League of Legends, but in space," you might see where I'm coming from.

EDIT: Basically, the long term goal here is holodecks, dammit! Imagine if you were in a holodeck (from Star Trek,) only every time you wanted to try something the computer chimed in and said, "You have to pay x real dollars for this virtual thing." Not very enjoyable, eh? In short, the ideal here is to create a world that stands apart from our own. A real, living, breathing, simulation. The only understandable form of monetization here is an admittance fee. Anything more than that needlessly compromises the integrity of the simulation.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Pipa Porto
#712 - 2012-08-03 08:03:53 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
Mechael wrote:

Guess we had different experiences. A lot of the people I knew/know (more knew than know, sadly) would have been happy to wait it out for excellent ambulation gameplay. The real reason most of us (my crew) left was because of the cash shop. The more the real-world wallets impact the simulation, the less of a simulation it is. Taking a look at, as one example, Zynga's stocks currently just goes to show that the fear of the F2P/P2W style games is justified. A direct exchange of cash for virtual pants (or golden ammo, doesn't much matter which from this particular perspective) is insulting. Reminded us all of how companies like Zynga think of their player base. We didn't matter to CCP anymore beyond being dumb-as-brick **** to suckle off of. And more importantly, it looked (and still looks) like EVE itself was just becoming such a vehicle.

I'm actually very sad about DUST's revenue model. I'd actually be interested in the game if it wasn't for that.


I don't understand why NEX is a problem, it just means more money to CCP from those willing to pay for it. As long as NEX items are vanity only who cares? It's not like you have to buy it, or suffer in-game disadvantage if you don't.


The perception is that the NEX assets were created on the subscriber's dime, and thus we'd already paid for the development, so why should we have to pay CCP for them again.

They took a game with an 8 year history of the Subscription covering every part of the game to all of a sudden having some parts locked behind a paywall. If this were WOW, where people expect to shell out money for access to new content, that would be fine.

But we've come to expect that EVE costs $14.95 a month for the whole game, not just most of it.

Add in the fact that the WIS content was nothing other than a room to model your own NEX items in, and that it was the reason for skimpy expansions leading up to Incarna, and you can see why people were upset about it, even before the prices.

The brand new F2P model (badly) tacked onto a Subs game, the prices, the skimpy expansions, and the total lack of WIS gameplay are all contributing factors, and I guess different groups probably had different primary factors.

The rabid popular feedback for Crucible makes me think that the skimpy expansions were the biggest one though.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#713 - 2012-08-03 08:10:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mechael
Pipa Porto wrote:
The rabid popular feedback for Crucible makes me think that the skimpy expansions were the biggest one though.


"A staggering number of subscribers still haven't spent their free Aurum" - CCP Unifex, from the CSM Minutes.

I'm one of them, obviously. I really don't think that skimpy expansions were the biggest reason for the rage (although they certainly were a big reason, and a damn big one at that.) I think it's also worth pointing out that Crucible was a very skimpy expansion. Inferno wasn't all that great either. The new wardeck system is a far cry from a good war mechanic, speaking again from the perspective of a simulation. It should have been something that made just as much sense for nullsec as for highsec. Anyway, all the details are a little bit of a tangent.

If ambulation were to be done well, it would be well. Captain Obvious strikes again. Blink I'm honestly more worried at this point that EVE will turn into League of Legends in space than I am about the devs spending too much time working on one big Jesus feature.

EDIT: And yes, EVE includes DUST. Or at least, it does in my mind. They're each just extensions of the same game. Which is part of the reason why DUST being F2P (and I'm calling it P2W as well, even though I know a lot of people don't quite see it that way because it offers no golden ammo) is so, so disappointing.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#714 - 2012-08-03 08:35:04 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
hey guys you want some cheese with all that whine?
TA is working on wis, nothing has changed except for the delay of the devblog.
I don't know what the big deal is, don't tell me you've never dealt with arbitrary "corporate" or "management" crap because "it's just how things work" IRL.

They could just put out something quick and dirty, like a useless room where dressed up avatars can emote each other, but fortunately that is not the CCP way. I imagine when it is released with good content and gameplay, we will all be shocked and awed like when we first started playing EVE, at least that is what I've come to expect from CCP.


^^THIS. I mean the point is, they DID just put out a dirty useless room. It was crap. The players saw right throught it. CCP learned a lesson, and seems hellbent on NOT making this same mistake twice. EVE players are demanding. We expect meaningful interaction, not simply an emote platform. From what we saw at the summit this is very much the goal, even if it means later rather than sooner. If they put out establishments too hastily, and fall short of expectations like they did with Incarna, I kinda feel its game over. They'll never invest money in it again after that. CCP is probably going to play their cards close to their chest for a while and feel free to experiment a little until they find that intersection between meaningful and achievable.


There's a difference between putting something incomplete and unpolished on SiSi and releasing it on TQ.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#715 - 2012-08-03 09:36:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
It's interesting to see CCP developers still think they have eternity to implement gameplay expansions. But with SWTOR (WiS) going F2P and MechWarrior (hi-tech lazors pewpew) release in a couple of weeks I won't need WiS in EVE and EVE itself (as sci-fi emulator) as badly as before.

P.S. Surely there is no craft, economy in both SWTOR and MWO - but it's still pretty good sci-fi (+StarWars + MechWarrior) environment for F2P games. And I'm not involved into EVE economy or craft anyway.
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#716 - 2012-08-03 10:54:27 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
It's interesting to see CCP developers still think they have eternity to implement gameplay expansions. But with SWTOR (WiS) going F2P and MechWarrior (hi-tech lazors pewpew) release in a couple of weeks I won't need WiS in EVE and EVE itself (as sci-fi emulator) as badly as before.

P.S. Surely there is no craft, economy in both SWTOR and MWO - but it's still pretty good sci-fi (+StarWars + MechWarrior) environment for F2P games. And I'm not involved into EVE economy or craft anyway.


lol Totally different games. I'm very glad that EVE is very unlike TOR (and the other land-based MMOs out there.) I'd even like to make this difference more pronounced. Getting rid of shooting mindless NPCs for hours on end (whether for a flat fee like in missions, or worse, for rare lootz like in complexes) would be a great place to start. Moving EVE away from the faucet/sink style economy and towards something a bit more real (where governments, or in this case alliances, actually mint their own currency.)

Anyway, tangent. If you're looking for that style of gameplay (running/flying around, /dancing, grinding mobs for cool loot, etc etc ... or even LoL/DOTA/etc style generate magical income :coughmoonminingcough: to toss meaningless ships into a meaningless battle) I'd really hope that you'd either come around to seeing EVE as a simulator, or else just move on by.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#717 - 2012-08-03 13:08:11 UTC
Mechael wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
The WiS train is gone. CCP's only chance was the fast and dirty way. 4 years after Incarna, there will not be anyone left to still care about WiS.


Lots of truth in everything else you said, but I think we disagree on this part. EVE still offers what is by far the richest gameplay of any MMO in existence. Even years ago it was still light years ahead of where other MMOs are today. Where else can I go to get an EVE-like experience from an MMO? Somewhere incredibly player driven, single-sharded, science fiction simulator?

People will still be here until something else that offers this experience comes along and does it better.

EDIT: And by better I mean spectacularly better, not just a clone with a makeover.


That's the sore, Mechael... that EVE is the only one around so either you like its core gameplay or you quit... or you strive to expand the non-core gameplay in directions you like better. Failing that, what are we supposed to do?

The promise of doing the same old crap forever is not going to buy much sympathy from the "only game around" crowd. And CCP is to find how many of their subscribers belong to that breed in the next years, once everybody who thought that this game had anything else to offer find out that what we see is what it is and what will be in the next years.

With this and Egosoft shooting its foot with X Rebirth, freelancing space simulators have got about as much future as text adventures.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
#718 - 2012-08-03 13:15:59 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
Mechael wrote:

Guess we had different experiences. A lot of the people I knew/know (more knew than know, sadly) would have been happy to wait it out for excellent ambulation gameplay. The real reason most of us (my crew) left was because of the cash shop. The more the real-world wallets impact the simulation, the less of a simulation it is. Taking a look at, as one example, Zynga's stocks currently just goes to show that the fear of the F2P/P2W style games is justified. A direct exchange of cash for virtual pants (or golden ammo, doesn't much matter which from this particular perspective) is insulting. Reminded us all of how companies like Zynga think of their player base. We didn't matter to CCP anymore beyond being dumb-as-brick **** to suckle off of. And more importantly, it looked (and still looks) like EVE itself was just becoming such a vehicle.

I'm actually very sad about DUST's revenue model. I'd actually be interested in the game if it wasn't for that.


I don't understand why NEX is a problem, it just means more money to CCP from those willing to pay for it. As long as NEX items are vanity only who cares? It's not like you have to buy it, or suffer in-game disadvantage if you don't.


if they get more money, they should work harder. :) and get more money.

playa playa
Ghazu
#719 - 2012-08-03 14:01:54 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Mechael wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
The WiS train is gone. CCP's only chance was the fast and dirty way. 4 years after Incarna, there will not be anyone left to still care about WiS.


Lots of truth in everything else you said, but I think we disagree on this part. EVE still offers what is by far the richest gameplay of any MMO in existence. Even years ago it was still light years ahead of where other MMOs are today. Where else can I go to get an EVE-like experience from an MMO? Somewhere incredibly player driven, single-sharded, science fiction simulator?

People will still be here until something else that offers this experience comes along and does it better.

EDIT: And by better I mean spectacularly better, not just a clone with a makeover.


That's the sore, Mechael... that EVE is the only one around so either you like its core gameplay or you quit... or you strive to expand the non-core gameplay in directions you like better. Failing that, what are we supposed to do?

The promise of doing the same old crap forever is not going to buy much sympathy from the "only game around" crowd. And CCP is to find how many of their subscribers belong to that breed in the next years, once everybody who thought that this game had anything else to offer find out that what we see is what it is and what will be in the next years.

With this and Egosoft shooting its foot with X Rebirth, freelancing space simulators have got about as much future as text adventures.


Lol your appeal for a no ganking 2nd life freakshow in eve crap is not going to buy much sympathy from the subscribers of eve. so this time can you just unsub quietly?

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Tristan Everness
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#720 - 2012-08-03 14:04:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tristan Everness
Ghazu wrote:
Mechael wrote:

Guess we had different experiences. A lot of the people I knew/know (more knew than know, sadly) would have been happy to wait it out for excellent ambulation gameplay. The real reason most of us (my crew) left was because of the cash shop. The more the real-world wallets impact the simulation, the less of a simulation it is. Taking a look at, as one example, Zynga's stocks currently just goes to show that the fear of the F2P/P2W style games is justified. A direct exchange of cash for virtual pants (or golden ammo, doesn't much matter which from this particular perspective) is insulting. Reminded us all of how companies like Zynga think of their player base. We didn't matter to CCP anymore beyond being dumb-as-brick **** to suckle off of. And more importantly, it looked (and still looks) like EVE itself was just becoming such a vehicle.

I'm actually very sad about DUST's revenue model. I'd actually be interested in the game if it wasn't for that.


I don't understand why NEX is a problem, it just means more money to CCP from those willing to pay for it. As long as NEX items are vanity only who cares? It's not like you have to buy it, or suffer in-game disadvantage if you don't.


They have to gain money in the right way, by doing nice stuff that makes the game more appealing, this mean more subscribers/money.
It's a sandbox, it mean that it's the player who chose what his goals are, so if some players decides that their goals is to have a cool avatar/ship skin the nexstore becomes a pay to win, uh?

The NeXstore it's just an easy way to make more money.
The wrong way to make money.