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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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Ancillary Shield Booster use should be nerfed

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fpshacker
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#41 - 2012-07-22 17:21:19 UTC  |  Edited by: fpshacker
Grath Telkin wrote:
fpshacker wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
This thread is a classic example of people not understanding game mechanics and mods and instead of learning about them whining that they get nerfed.


This post is a classic example of grath telkin being bitter and pretending to understand game mechanics.



Yea, you coming at me calling me bitter after i got you kicked out of PL doesn't look at all hypocritical...


Yea i am sure me blue killing didn't help.

ps. I don't really want to be in a goon pet alliance
Shivalla
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-07-22 17:22:23 UTC
Best thing that has EVER happened with Alliance Tournament. Hands down. It has made everything more interesting with also next year, its gonna be even MORE awesome.

Just my 5 cents
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-07-22 17:23:24 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
It offers a load of flexibility which I think makes it pretty damn awesome in terms of getting different setups.


would it be too much to increase it's healing amount and cycle time by 20%? allowing it to heal more at once but the same shields per second, but allowing for a bit more alpha to come through your shields if you're not fitting an ok passive tank.

?

but yeah it's awesome just keep it in mind : )

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Airia Linn
Paradox Collective
#44 - 2012-07-22 17:25:36 UTC
Why not just balance it out and ask Ccp to make an armour variant AAR that way it makes it viable to field an armour fleet that can finally active tank for a change. The asb is fine but it needs to be balanced with an armour type.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2012-07-22 17:33:14 UTC
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

Not sure if you're serious....


And you? Are you serious? You are basing validity of your argument on comparing most dpsing pirate bs (that has like 50% more dps, better tracking, lower signature, higher speed, higher agility, 90% web +1 "free" mid) to plain tech 1 bs...



Yes, because we're dealing with tanking, you know, the point of this argument and not any of what you listed, the DPS difference isn't important since both ships potentially out DPS the tanks of the other.


Only the vindi can do what the Mael does with a single rep, even though the Mael uses two, AND gets tanking bonuses.


The rest of the stats you listed mean nothing when dealing with the argument at hand which is about the strength of ASBs.


Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2012-07-22 17:37:40 UTC
Airia Linn wrote:
Why not just balance it out and ask Ccp to make an armour variant AAR that way it makes it viable to field an armour fleet that can finally active tank for a change. The asb is fine but it needs to be balanced with an armour type.

Because then you make tanking homogenous and nobody likes that, right now you make choices about tanking and what you're going to tank, do i want to armor tank and get tons of utility, or do i want a really strong burst shield tank but NO ewar, ect.


There need to be clearly defined pros and cons for each, right now there is, adding a fueled armor booster will kill that.


That said the adaptive hardener is kinda crap, it could have been great but it came so incredibly pre nerfed that its not going to be the gap bridger that it should have been for armor tanks.


To make it better they need to massively reduce the cap the adaptive hardener burns to the level of a DCU so that it can give that brick feeling to armor once it cycles up, and it could probably use a slightly faster cycle time.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2012-07-22 17:38:34 UTC
fpshacker wrote:


ps. I don't really want to be in a goon pet alliance


And for my triple post:


I guess you didn't want to be in a tournament competition alliance either right?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
The Bazzalisk
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#48 - 2012-07-22 17:38:56 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:


A vindi with equivalent 11 blasters and 90% web beats a Maelstrom so ASB isn't overpowered?

Um...okay then.
fpshacker
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#49 - 2012-07-22 17:39:08 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Airia Linn wrote:
Why not just balance it out and ask Ccp to make an armour variant AAR that way it makes it viable to field an armour fleet that can finally active tank for a change. The asb is fine but it needs to be balanced with an armour type.

Because then you make tanking homogenous and nobody likes that, right now you make choices about tanking and what you're going to tank, do i want to armor tank and get tons of utility, or do i want a really strong burst shield tank but NO ewar, ect.


There need to be clearly defined pros and cons for each, right now there is, adding a fueled armor booster will kill that.


That said the adaptive hardener is kinda crap, it could have been great but it came so incredibly pre nerfed that its not going to be the gap bridger that it should have been for armor tanks.


To make it better they need to massively reduce the cap the adaptive hardener burns to the level of a DCU so that it can give that brick feeling to armor once it cycles up, and it could probably use a slightly faster cycle time.


The word you were looking for is actually homogeneous.
fpshacker
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#50 - 2012-07-22 17:40:04 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
fpshacker wrote:


ps. I don't really want to be in a goon pet alliance


And for my triple post:


I guess you didn't want to be in a tournament competition alliance either right?


clearly no; Dayz is more fun anyway.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-07-22 17:40:25 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

Not sure if you're serious....


And you? Are you serious? You are basing validity of your argument on comparing most dpsing pirate bs (that has like 50% more dps, better tracking, lower signature, higher speed, higher agility, 90% web +1 "free" mid) to plain tech 1 bs...



Yes, because we're dealing with tanking, you know, the point of this argument and not any of what you listed, the DPS difference isn't important since both ships potentially out DPS the tanks of the other.


Only the vindi can do what the Mael does with a single rep, even though the Mael uses two, AND gets tanking bonuses.


The rest of the stats you listed mean nothing when dealing with the argument at hand which is about the strength of ASBs.





Astarte with 2x reps: 191 dps tanked.
Sleipnir with 1x L-ASB: 298 dps tanked.
Sleipnir with 1x XL-ASB: 708 dps tanked.

Clearly no balance issue at all.
The Bazzalisk
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#52 - 2012-07-22 17:42:02 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
The Bazzalisk wrote:
Look at this match at the moment - Mildly Intoxicated - Raiden.

Those 3 Proteuses were unable to take down a webbed Sleipnir for a solid minute, and the logi was long dead. It's a bit silly.



Did you mean those 3 proteus's that were rotating turns being jammed?
At that point in the match, all that was left was the Sleipnir and two Harpies. If you think two Harpies are going to jam out 3 Dis. Seq. Proteuses - even have a significant amount of ECM fitted on a team which already has FOUR rooks then um.....what?
Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#53 - 2012-07-22 17:43:23 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:


Astarte with 2x reps: 191 dps tanked.
Sleipnir with 1x L-ASB: 298 dps tanked.
Sleipnir with 1x XL-ASB: 708 dps tanked.

Clearly no balance issue at all.


not particularly bothered by the reality of Sleip teams losing when up against good opponents (hint not you), are you?
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2012-07-22 17:44:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
The Bazzalisk wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
The Bazzalisk wrote:
Look at this match at the moment - Mildly Intoxicated - Raiden.

Those 3 Proteuses were unable to take down a webbed Sleipnir for a solid minute, and the logi was long dead. It's a bit silly.



Did you mean those 3 proteus's that were rotating turns being jammed?
At that point in the match, all that was left was the Sleipnir and two Harpies. If you think two Harpies are going to jam out 3 Dis. Seq. Proteuses - even have a significant amount of ECM fitted on a team which already has FOUR rooks then um.....what?


If you think that 3 proteus's can be tanked by a single ASB then you're actually clueless.


There is no other words for it.

The Bazzalisk wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:


A vindi with equivalent 11 blasters and 90% web beats a Maelstrom so ASB isn't overpowered?

Um...okay then.


What the hell are you even talking about, what does a 90%web have to do with a single rep vindi beating a dual xl asb maelstrom?

Are you smoking crack? Possibly riding the horse?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
fpshacker
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#55 - 2012-07-22 17:45:57 UTC
grath telkin, if you want to argue with people for the sake or arguing with people you may want to try reddit.
The Bazzalisk
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#56 - 2012-07-22 17:51:09 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
The Bazzalisk wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
The Bazzalisk wrote:
Look at this match at the moment - Mildly Intoxicated - Raiden.

Those 3 Proteuses were unable to take down a webbed Sleipnir for a solid minute, and the logi was long dead. It's a bit silly.



Did you mean those 3 proteus's that were rotating turns being jammed?
At that point in the match, all that was left was the Sleipnir and two Harpies. If you think two Harpies are going to jam out 3 Dis. Seq. Proteuses - even have a significant amount of ECM fitted on a team which already has FOUR rooks then um.....what?


If you think that 3 proteus's can be tanked by a single ASB then you're actually clueless.


There is no other words for it.
Not for an extended period of time, but if you were actually watching the stream you would have seen with your own eyes that the ASB Sleipnir, webbed, survived for at least 45 seconds under the attack of the 3 Proteuses. That's not me being clueless, that's me seeing something actually happen in the tournament and then using it.
Quote:

What the hell are you even talking about, what does a 90%web have to do with a single rep vindi beating a dual xl asb maelstrom?

Are you smoking crack? Possibly riding the horse?
90% web will ensure that the Vindi gets good hits every time. If you consider it relevant or not, it doesn't really matter a huge deal either way. You're comparing a monster dps faction BS to a T1 BS and somehow trying to use that to support your claim.
The Bazzalisk
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#57 - 2012-07-22 17:52:15 UTC
Faife wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:


Astarte with 2x reps: 191 dps tanked.
Sleipnir with 1x L-ASB: 298 dps tanked.
Sleipnir with 1x XL-ASB: 708 dps tanked.

Clearly no balance issue at all.


not particularly bothered by the reality of Sleip teams losing when up against good opponents (hint not you), are you?
Well the 3 ASB Vargurs + Scimitar sure seemed to screw TEST over.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2012-07-22 17:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
The Bazzalisk wrote:



]Not for an extended period of time, but if you were actually watching the stream you would have seen with your own eyes that the ASB Sleipnir, webbed, survived for at least 45 seconds under the attack of the 3 Proteuses. That's not me being clueless, that's me seeing something actually happen in the tournament and then using it.

90% web will ensure that the Vindi gets good hits every time. If you consider it relevant or not, it doesn't really matter a huge deal either way. You're comparing a monster dps faction BS to a T1 BS and somehow trying to use that to support your claim.


OH GOD HE TANKED FOR A WHOLE 45 SECONDS WHAT A GOD DAMN TRAVESTY

1) Whats the dps difference between a Mael and a Vindi?
2) Why does the web matter, is the vindi trying to speed tank the Maelstrom?
3) Do you think its possible or a Vindi to speed tank BS's sized ACs at blaster ranges?

When those 2 bs fight, its pretty much a standing fist fight, and with the rep power the Mael puts out, coupled with its DPS, the expected winner is the Mael that can tank till it runs out of charges.

The web makes 0 difference in the fight.

But in reality, thats exactly what happens, the Mael burns through all his booster charges tanking the vindi, while the vindi burns a modes amount of cap boost charges keeping up with the Maels still considerable DPS.


The biggest advantage any ASB ship can get is having a huge cargo, in which case Vargs excel.

Anything else you attribute to the fight is arbitrary and of our own creation.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
cBOLTSON
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-07-22 18:03:11 UTC
I've got to be honest with you I really like the tournament this year and the ASB is great.. Lots of the matches have come down to a ship either being bumped away to reload his booster, or when a ship has just barely made it away alive intime. I find this fun to watch.

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......
Celedris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-07-22 18:04:05 UTC
They are strong, and probably a bit too powerful in the 6-man qualifying round, but they are fairly easy to counter in 12-mans.

They should probably be limited to 1 per ship on TQ in general, as dual-ASBs with a siege link alt (and potentially crystals) is pretty much broken in small-scale pvp.