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What keeps you from PvPing?

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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#301 - 2012-07-14 21:00:41 UTC
Neutrals. Be it T3 alts, hotdrop'o'clock "friends" or RR .. can't be scouted, can't be killed (mostly) and is thus omnipresent.

Eve has been gravitating towards blob/fleet vs. blob/fleet for some years, but it is only after T3 alts matured that solo/small gang can be declared for irrevocably dead (and no, a small gang of thrash volleying a hauler/exhumer is not actually pew).

Since I started, CCP has continually claimed to want the small scale to have not only a place but a pedestal in Eve, yet they keep adding/allowing mechanics and ships that make it but a fleeting dream .. Eve is farmers, sheep and herders .. might as well be on Faecesbook.
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#302 - 2012-07-14 21:04:16 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
Low PCU.


Compared to?


anytime after 2010.
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#303 - 2012-07-14 21:07:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Soundwave Plays Diablo
Ukrane Bob wrote:
I can only give you an answer for myself..

I don't give a rats a$$ about isk per hour or profit margins...

I don't give a rats a$$ about pvp or killmails.. if I want kill counts I'll go play CoD or some other fps..

I don't give a rats a$$ about why/how you play.. But I think it is hilarious that the play styles of pve folks gets under the skin of pvp folks.

I simply love the crafting aspect of this game. You actually have to work to gather the materials (work includes watching your back the whole time from the folks that play for pvp) and then turn them into almost anything in the game that can be bought and sold.
I love the fact that you have to learn skills to do anything in the game and the fact that it is real time learning makes it even better. Well maybe not real time but it takes more time than stopping off at a trainer and throwing money at him and magically gaining the Titan pilot skill.

In short, at least for me, I love to create things. If they are destroyed I rebuild and create more. Does it bother me that they can be destroyed? Not at all.. That is the nature of this game after all.


edit: Yes I copy pasted and edited this from another post very similar to this. I didn't feel like retyping.Pirate


Ironically less players is also why I quit market PvP. No incursion runners buying pirate faction ships that I make 100m+ for a few minutes of work, and 4 hours of "waiting".

At the peak of incursions I was actually the sole provider of Machariels in Heimatar several times.

Thanks CCP.
Pipa Porto
#304 - 2012-07-14 22:15:23 UTC
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
Low PCU.


Compared to?


anytime after 2010.


Fair enough. 18 months and Summer of Rage played Havoc on a lot of people.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#305 - 2012-07-14 22:18:05 UTC
I think a lot of people don't pvp is because the pvp in this game isn't that great. It is much more about knowledge and numbers and luck than player skill. From a skilled gamers perspective, we would rather play an FPS or an RTS game. I play eve for its depth and complexity, not for the "pvp".
Plutonian
Intransigent
#306 - 2012-07-14 22:46:45 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Neutrals. Be it T3 alts, hotdrop'o'clock "friends" or RR .. can't be scouted, can't be killed (mostly) and is thus omnipresent.

Eve has been gravitating towards blob/fleet vs. blob/fleet for some years, but it is only after T3 alts matured that solo/small gang can be declared for irrevocably dead (and no, a small gang of thrash volleying a hauler/exhumer is not actually pew).

Since I started, CCP has continually claimed to want the small scale to have not only a place but a pedestal in Eve, yet they keep adding/allowing mechanics and ships that make it but a fleeting dream .. Eve is farmers, sheep and herders .. might as well be on Faecesbook.
^ This.

Of course you realize that CCP would prefer you to have five alts to PvP with instead of a single account... right?

They know what they're doing to solo PvP.
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#307 - 2012-07-15 05:57:09 UTC
So much misinformation.

Newb- you can participate and make a difference from the get go- but you will die often and fast. Get yourself some free JC's and fleet up for a low sec roam. The moxie to actually fleet up and try tackling the first thing you see- if far more important to PvP than skill points or faction modules.

The core ethos of every pirate I know is quite simply- play to win, but have fun losing.

This is a foreign concept to virtually every care bear. To PvP, you simply cannot care a whit if you return to dock in a flaming wreck, a pod, or a vat of goo. Since you never lose in PvE, it comes as a shock when it happens in PvP. Get over it.
Besides, it's not a real space ship. I'm not a real pirate, it's just a video game.

Solo is tough, and people you run into out there flying solo, are very likely solo because they DONT NEED any backup. Solo PvP is probably more of where you arrive, than where you start. In a fleet you can get away with a low end fitting but on your own, it's kind of obvious that going toe to toe with what are most likely very shiny ships flown by high SP pilots- the odds are against you.

Duels aren't PvP'ing but if you want to test the waters find pirates and ask for a fair fight, Since we're in it for the fight, win or lose, everyone I know will happily honor duels and even reship to make for a fair fight. After you lose, exchange a GF in local- then chat. I constantly see entire local chats where the winner explains exactly how and why they won and offer advice for the next fight.

There is no big secret to it. Personally, I found a couple other people that wanted to PvP in the newb care bear corp I was in- and we'd just go out roaming in frigates, taking turns as scout and gang leader. I managed a few kills and decided that 'pirate' was the virtual life I wanted to lead in Eve, and applied to BRRC, who graciously took me in.

Lastly, PvP is more than hitting Orbit / Fire and collecting KMs. There is the matter of GCC and aggression countdowns, gate guns and when they will fire on you and when they won't, creating safes, using the D-Scan or combat probes, manual piloting, overheating, knowing what to load for the target (this ain't mission running, sarge), and most importantly...when to GTFO!
Each one of those lessons is usually purchased with loss mails. As long as it's fun, then winning or losing is really moot anyway.
Bommel McMurdoc
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#308 - 2012-07-15 06:47:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Bommel McMurdoc
*wrong post read below please*
trite boon
Kingpins
#309 - 2012-07-15 06:47:56 UTC
1. Work
2. My son
3. Wife
4. Your wife / GF / Mum ( pick one )
5. Dayz
Bommel McMurdoc
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#310 - 2012-07-15 06:48:27 UTC
Alaric Faelen wrote:
*Long Pro-PvP'er post omitted for sake of wall of text issues*


Honestly, this is the kind of PvP I can get behind and support. Clearly, you are operating in low-sec (gate guns etc,) To me, that's perfectly alright, it comes with low sec and null-space (aside from the politics of null) That's part of the whole "surviving in space." To me, you are a necessary actor for the enviroment.

But what I cannot get behind and support is the siliness of being forced into it while I'm trying to learn more about the game. And mind you, there's a lot to learn. Don't get me wrong, I'll admit, I am afraid of "losing my stuff," but I cannot afford to replace them on a daily basis. The type of PvP us "carebears" as we're so loveingly called, find problematic are the types that force the issue upon everyone for the sake of kill mails and they also define "shooting fish in a barrel" as a valid description of PvP. Case in point, Players who war-dec industry/mining corps simply to rack up the kills and they often run and hide in stations until the war-dec is over when those they meet have teeth and claws comparable to their own. That isn't PvP, that's a big fat honkin' waste of time and all the time spent waiting for the "hardcore pvp'er" to come out of the station, I could learn more about how to D-scan, scan down anomolies, learn how to quickly pin-point with combat probes, the list goes on. No one is teaching me this stuff, and I don't expect anyone to, it's my issue to resolve. The more time I spend replenishing my losses and waiting for mr. bawlz-of-steel to come out of the station, the longer it's going to take me to finally get into the fray.

Someday, just someday, I'll join YOU and your buddies in low-sec for a row or two. But right now, so many skills to learn and guides to read, until I, personally, feel comfortable enough to take the plunge.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#311 - 2012-07-15 08:06:34 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Neutrals. Be it T3 alts, hotdrop'o'clock "friends" or RR .. can't be scouted, can't be killed (mostly) and is thus omnipresent.

Eve has been gravitating towards blob/fleet vs. blob/fleet for some years, but it is only after T3 alts matured that solo/small gang can be declared for irrevocably dead (and no, a small gang of thrash volleying a hauler/exhumer is not actually pew).

Hotdropping is great.

When you start locking a Drake/Hurricane and realize it has a name like:
Surprise!
NotBait
PleaseShootMe

or so on, then you see people uncloaking on you, then you're jammed, scrammed and webbed. Opps.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
#312 - 2012-07-15 10:37:10 UTC
I've only been here for a month, but don't intend on shooting other players in the future. I am not aggressive by nature and always wanted to have a pacifist character.

The reason why I play EVE is because it is the most advanced MMO in regards of researching, manufacturing and commerce. I love all those Will Wright (especially Sim Earth) and Sid Meyer games and would often build huge empires in Civ without ever initiating combat.

When the first wave of MMOs came out that they had crafting systems and you could become a merchant. The systems were simple and the resulting products often inconsequential. To make matters worse the only way you could gain levels was through experience points gained from killing monsters.

So in regards to the first post I am under the impression that the question is geared towards ship combat PVP. As for my answer I enjoy playing with other players in the markets, and don't do combat in either PvP or PvE environments.

I rather create than destroy, and there is a small rush I get as the ISK quickly rises. Also I actually enjoy hauling and doing distribution missions. I am currently training my indy to 5 so I can pilot a Viator. My collection of clothes is almost (need the other two FW shirts) complete and my collection of fitted ships continues to grow. This might seem odd for those of you who come from a FPS background, but I come from many hours of playing the Sims and enjoy my space barbie.

Yesterday I got offered the level 4 "Shipyard Theft" storyline mission from my distribution agent and accidentally accepted it. I bought a Navy Megathron and piled on the gear and actually managed to complete the mission with my 1.2m SP and a few hours. The number of NPCs I have destroyed since day one literally went up 5x from that one mission and will probably stay there until the next time I accidentally accept a mission.

Eve has an amazing economical simulator that I have not seen in any other MMO.
Horace Nancyball
The Whiskers of Kurvi-Tasch
#313 - 2012-07-15 10:49:10 UTC
Speaking as a player of six years or so (on and off) who is not averse to the idea of pvp (but has been entirely unable to make a success of it) I'd give my take on this.



Back when I first played there WAS such a thing as 1v1 but as my skillset was so low I would always be on the losing side of a gank. Nowadays you can cruise low sec belts all you like and never find something worth attacking.


I tried Eve Uni with an alt and while the lectures etc were amazing, pvp involved either:



1. 100 frig roams with a handful of vets who killed everything for you, or



2. OMG it's war, quick everyone dock up.



I tried factional warfare but that's still a fairly solo activity just with a greater likelyhood of being ganked.



Corps. Here's the thing, you need to be very lucky finding a corp that suits you. I have chums that have joined Alliance Tournament corps who can log on at peak time GMT and there be no-one around. For some reason Eve corps don't seem to work in the same way hardcore raid guilds might in a game like EQ2. There are some corps where during the day the only activity is mining/industry/zzzzz and pvp only comes out to play from around 10pm GMT when people with careers can't really consider a 6 hour roam. Also, the more you "sample" different corps the more your employment history makes you look like a corp hopping pilot to be avoided.



So what is the alternative theses days? RvB? Maybe, that's next on my list to sample. Find a way into a null sec corp? That can be an issue if you don't already have a reasonale kill rate.



I'm not here to suggest pvpers have to go out of their way to accomodate me. What I am saying is that for your average player who might have a fairly good skill set and a reasonable knowledge of modules and fits but not an endless window of opportunity for playing getting into pvp these days can be be easier said than done.
Horace Nancyball
The Whiskers of Kurvi-Tasch
#314 - 2012-07-15 10:54:48 UTC
Celeste Taylor wrote:
I've only been here for a month....
....
Yesterday I got offered the level 4 "Shipyard Theft" storyline mission from my distribution agent and accidentally accepted it. I bought a Navy Megathron and piled on the gear and actually managed to complete the mission with my 1.2m SP and a few hours. The number of NPCs I have destroyed since day one literally went up 5x from that one mission and will probably stay there until the next time I accidentally accept a mission.



You've been playing a month with 1.2m SP. How can you either afford or fly a faction battleship?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#315 - 2012-07-15 10:56:56 UTC
Does camping station undocks or nearby gates count as PvP? If not, it's because enemies won't undock into our bombs.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#316 - 2012-07-15 10:59:32 UTC
Horace Nancyball wrote:
Celeste Taylor wrote:
I've only been here for a month....
....
Yesterday I got offered the level 4 "Shipyard Theft" storyline mission from my distribution agent and accidentally accepted it. I bought a Navy Megathron and piled on the gear and actually managed to complete the mission with my 1.2m SP and a few hours. The number of NPCs I have destroyed since day one literally went up 5x from that one mission and will probably stay there until the next time I accidentally accept a mission.



You've been playing a month with 1.2m SP. How can you either afford or fly a faction battleship?


Simple: he flies it very, very poorly and would be more effective in a thorax.
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
#317 - 2012-07-15 11:18:25 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Horace Nancyball wrote:
Celeste Taylor wrote:
I've only been here for a month....
....
Yesterday I got offered the level 4 "Shipyard Theft" storyline mission from my distribution agent and accidentally accepted it. I bought a Navy Megathron and piled on the gear and actually managed to complete the mission with my 1.2m SP and a few hours. The number of NPCs I have destroyed since day one literally went up 5x from that one mission and will probably stay there until the next time I accidentally accept a mission.



You've been playing a month with 1.2m SP. How can you either afford or fly a faction battleship?


Simple: he flies it very, very poorly and would be more effective in a thorax.


Indeed I don't intend on flying it again for some time, I just needed something to finish that mission without declining. Is it possible to do a level 4 storyline with a Thorax? I was told that a newb in a t1 cruisers would get completely destroyed on Shipyard Theft. So i did what I needed to in order to not have to abandon the mission.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#318 - 2012-07-15 11:21:12 UTC
Celeste Taylor wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Horace Nancyball wrote:
Celeste Taylor wrote:
I've only been here for a month....
....
Yesterday I got offered the level 4 "Shipyard Theft" storyline mission from my distribution agent and accidentally accepted it. I bought a Navy Megathron and piled on the gear and actually managed to complete the mission with my 1.2m SP and a few hours. The number of NPCs I have destroyed since day one literally went up 5x from that one mission and will probably stay there until the next time I accidentally accept a mission.



You've been playing a month with 1.2m SP. How can you either afford or fly a faction battleship?


Simple: he flies it very, very poorly and would be more effective in a thorax.


Indeed I don't intend on flying it again for some time, I just needed something to finish that mission without declining. Is it possible to do a level 4 storyline with a Thorax? I was told that a newb in a t1 cruisers would get completely destroyed on Shipyard Theft. So i did what I needed to in order to not have to abandon the mission.



If you're smart and patient, you could run a level 4 in a well fit frigate.

It would be a very slow process however.

Point is, larger ships are very SP sensitive. Flying one with 1.2m SP is like flying 10% of one.
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#319 - 2012-07-15 11:33:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Marconus Orion
Enough with the 'You're doing it WRONG!' speeches guys. Friendly advice is one thing, berating them accomplishes nothing.

EDIT: not directed at those on this page, but just the last few pages prior and stuff. P
Boudicca Arbosa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#320 - 2012-07-15 11:43:41 UTC
Aareya wrote:
Boudicca Arbosa wrote:
I'm 10 days old. There's absolutely no way I can take down a vet. None. At all.


It's misconceptions like this that keeps people in high sec and avoiding pvp. That being said, there is a niche for those who don't want to pvp. Not everyone can be the hunter. Some people have to be the prey.


I understand where you're coming from but it's not a misconception. Not only will the differences in skills, ISK, ships and modules be totally unbalanced, so are the general skills of knowing what to do in a fight. This isn't like entering a fight in TERA, where even tho you've may never have PVP'd in TERA before, you've at least PVP'd in MMOS similar to it.