EVE General Discussion

Initially it was because I had no ISK to fund it. Now I'm doing fine ISK-wise so I can fund a PvP thing. I don't care about losing my stuff.

Only problem now is that it seems PvP is a very hit or miss thing. I don't want to spend long periods of time looking for targets to shoot at. This is the biggest turn-off. I don't mind losing, or being jumped by fleets and such, just would rather not spend 20 minutes looking for a fight that ends up being won or lost in 30 seconds. I don't know how often this happens, complete noob to PvP.

My other personal reason is that I'm hooked to WoT at the moment and I may let my EVE subscription lapse in September. If I can get into good and regular PvP before then, I may stick around.

Most random pvp encounters revolve around deception or one sided battles (ie combat ship v. hulk) because people dont want to lose. Ever.

OK, I will bite, as I'm probably going to be the only true non-pvp'er that will reply to the thread (although this is a forum alt).

The reason for not indulging in pure pvp? [b]I just don't see the point.[/b]

Don't get me wrong - if my main's corp or Alliance gets a wardec then I'll tool up and fight as much as I can, because that's to defend what I/we have built up.

I've crossed verbal swords with Tippia many times about what this game is meant to be (in my opinion), and what I don't think this game is, is a purely pvp game. I'm sorry, I know you won't accept that, but remember I'm almost certainly reflecting the (generally silent) majority view. It's a game that has pvp elements yes, but to simply log on and get in a ship and look to blow people up...well I think you're missing the most involving parts of the game (although no doubt your hi-sec alts are doing stuff your pvp alts consider beneath them).

Another way to look at the type of pvp you're on about is to imagine pvp in World War 2 - each side had planes that were more or less evenly matched and it was ultimately pilot skill (and a certain amount of luck) that got the kill...the sort of pvp you want/take part in, is someone in a Sopwith Camel, being fought by someone in an F-22 Raptor. Be honest - if there was a chance that you would go up against someone pretty much equal to you in terms of SP and ship fit, would you stay and fight - probably not.

Please let's not get involved in the 'EVE is a pvp game' argument - the question asked was trying find out why people don't pvp.

So there you have it. PVP is pointless, simply done for instant gratification.

(Edit -something else I've just thought which might also be relevant - I'm in my 50's and so maybe I just don't have the interest in proving how well I can hit F1 anymore. I'll leave that to you young bucks, lol)

Flame away.

I think this is the crux of the matter for many folks, myself included.

When I think back to other MMOs, or even just MP games in general, I can always remember amazing moments where player skill triumphed over everything else. And you never really know how things will play out. EVE is one of few MMOs where the outcome of the battle is decided the moment two parties hit their respective undock buttons.

Don't get me wrong, I get that in most games there's always a bit of rock-paper-scissors-shotgun-mushrooms thing going. So you bring scissors to a rock fight, you're going to suffer for it. We all know it and accept it. But even in poorly balanced MMOs, I feel player skill plays a much bigger role than it does in EVE. Sometimes rock is just an inferior player, or gets overconfident. It can easily lead to a loss. I once had a 2v1 against a dps/healer, and won. DPS got overconfident, broke line of sight to the healer and I managed to take him out, ended up kiting the healer long enough to recover, and took him out as well. A 2v1 turning into a win where it should have been a massive one-sided loss, all because the game allows player skill to overshadow all other things.

That is not to say player skill in EVE is irrelevant - far from it - but it is far, FAR behind other considerations, when it should be far AHEAD of them. And that turns a lot of people off. This is only exacerbated further when people realize that they cannot improve, no matter how much they play or practice, until their CHARACTER'S skillpoints improve, and which increase in real time. There's nothing quite so soul-crushing as hitting a plateau and knowing with complete certainty that nothing will change AT ALL for 3+ weeks until you train up another skill. And when skill get even longer, a month or more each, it just wrecks morale.

On one hand, I recognize EVE has a lot of nice redeeming features. But on the other hand, it has tons of glaring problems as well. What's worse, I see "old hands" fighting tooth and nail to keep the advantages that their advanced SP offers them. Had they actually wanted more and better quality PvP, they would be fighting to reduce the entry barrier for newer players. Instead they harp on about how SP is meaningless (beyond a certain point, which depending on who you talk to takes from 6 months to 6 years to reach) and bemoan other peoples' unwillingness to take it up the tailpipe.

EDIT:

On constructive note, I think EVE's PvP and combat in general could benefit from just better mechanics. Most MMOs these days have line of sight at the very least. Things like terrain, line of sight, etc., become critically important. EVE, being in space, has no terrain and no line of sight.

I often remember playing Pirates of the Burning Sea (Sony MMO very similar to EVE in many respects), where the shape of the sail on the vessel determined the optimal direction and speed where it could travel. That is, a latin sail vessel could easily escape a square sail by turning into a close haul to the wind, which is an optimal point-of-sail for that vessel. It allowed for more tactics, and player skill to play a larger role.

All ships had "dead zones" where cannons could not fire - get into an enemy ship's dead zone and damage you take drops to zero. In EVE this is partially achieved by cheap mechanics such as fast small ships outrunning missile explosions, but let's face it these mechanics are really just cheap and don't add anything good to the game. In EVE it is done with hull + SP, not player skill like in PotBS.

PotBS also had ship boarding mechanics. That is, an 8 gun Xebec could catch and board a 32 gun Merchantman, and if you were good at avatar combat you could win and capture the ship that way. You didn't need to annihilate it with cannon fire if you could climb on board and drive your Florentine fencing sword into the other captain's gullet. Again, not so in EVE.

Further, that game had line of sight. That is, a ship in bad shape could duck behind an island, or a friendly ship, or heck even an enemy ship with fewer guns, which would prevent the enemy that deals more damage from continuing to lay down the hurt. Again, not so in EVE.

Finally, in that game there were varying ammo types. You had chain and bar shot that damaged sails, you had grape shot that killed the crew, and you had round shot that damaged the structure of the ship. Damaging sails reduced speed and mobility in a permanent way, unless repaired via ability or consumable, both of which had cooldowns and limited effect. Grape shot killed crew, which did not replenish at all until you docked in a port. Kill enough crew, and both the speed AND damage would suffer, as there wouldn't be enough crew to man the guns. Also, fewer crew makes the boarding action much easier (crew showed up as computer controlled NPCs). And round shot just damaged the hull, which when destroyed sunk the ship with all hands.

As a result, combat was FAR deeper. Between wind, shot type, sail type and combat preference, as well as situational awareness (terrain, line of sight breaks, dead zones, etc.) plus much more direct control over your ship's movement and speed made for MUCH better combat. There were times where I got absolutely butchered by the enemy because I was simply outplayed at every turn, not because he was higher level, had better ship, better guns or anything else. Player skill, instead of character skill.

I spend a lot of time in high-sec simply because I feel like I am not ready to venture into the great unknown. So many skills to develop, long list of goals to achieve, and a large portion of those who strongly advocate PvP give the elective genre a personality that makes it unattractive.

The one thing that has long bothered me, IRL or in any MMO I've ever played, happens to be the concept of being forced to do something when I don't feel comfortable enough doing it. "HERE! have a beer BRAH!....WHOOO HOOO! " "no thanks" "COME ON! LIGHTEN UP!" "no man.... " (which follows with various attempts of insulting pressures usually relating the female anatomy or depending on ones point of view ... another noun describing a cat) OR something close to home.... "PVP!" "nah dude I can't afford to pvp yet." "SO WHAT! IT"S FUN!" "nah man..." "okay you asked for it... HULKAGEDDON! JIHAD! MOHAMMED DEEMS YOU UNWORTHY!" (sigh)

to be perfectly honest, I am really interested in the whole "survival" idea of EvE online. Venturing into low sec or Null space to explore, survive, reap the rewards (and the list is long) that I can't get in high security space. "Pirates come and get me! My corpmates are under attack! (hops into Jaguar) ETA 1 minute! go go go!" sure that's an awesome idea, that's my idea of what eve should be. Not "Mark another for the killboards! whoo hoo!" (That's for Americas army or quake or even counterstrike.)

PvP in this game, in my mind, has become perverted into a sickening and primitive way that's parallel with pushing granny who is in a wheelchair down the hills of San Francisco instead of merely helping her across the street.

PvP like sex is overrated.

-Couldn't afford to lose ships.
-Wasn't impressed by the teen smack talk style of a lot of pvp corps. Now pvping, but with a small gang of mature and rather courteous players.

1. work
2. sleep
3. the woman

i ******* hate them all

-A- Doesn't PVP because they hope others will get bored and go away

Clone costs and insurance payouts. All other costs are fine by me.

Clone costs don't really bother me.... yet (only 13.5mil SP), but insurance payouts, or lack thereof for T2 ships keeps me from wanting to fly anything more than a T1 cruiser/frig into pvp, unless its in a Force Recon or CovOps.