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New dev blog: Next Unified Inventory Update

First post First post
Author
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#581 - 2012-06-10 20:51:22 UTC
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:
I've had enough of this nonsense.

Just cancelled my two other accounts. I'll put up with this, my main, but I'll no longer pay to put up this joke on the others.

One finishes on the 25th of this month, the other 25th August. That's 200 quid a year I've just saved and you've lost CCP.

But I doubt you care anyway. You ignored my feedback on Sisi, you'll ignore this.


Yeah, they totally ignored my feedback on Sisi, along with so many others.

I have loved this game for years, couldn't wait to get home from work and play.

Now, however it is a chore. Everything takes longer and is a real pain in the ass.

Weeks later, its still a pile of crap. As a result I have not renewed 2 accounts and will not be renewing the other 3 when they expire in a month's time.

Bye bye,

Its a real shame that you have ruined the game so many of us loved.
ephanach
Hancock Neo Corporation
#582 - 2012-06-10 21:00:12 UTC
After a month of fix and patch now i can say : the inventory still fail....i meet alot of problem than i dont need write there because it just make me more confuse ....why dont you just bring us back the old inventory damit ...its the only way you should take since long time ago damit ...will you continue make us made ?damit
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#583 - 2012-06-10 21:04:36 UTC
I haven't been able to play for a while, so I'm heading in...

Uniclickageddonafubardified Inventory system or not.

The loss of right click functionality and tethering players to their keyboards with the Shift key?

Still sucks.

A design decision.

That's the closest thing to an answer I've seen on the forums regarding unifying right click menus with the headache tree. I'm still adjusting to balancing the keyboard in my lap all night. But I'm getting used to it.

You know, there was a reply I read the other day in one of these topics that went along the lines of:" "Even when I use Windows Explorer, I always use two windows. I've never dragged my files over to the tree even though I knew I could."

And it got me thinking, so do I. I'm not sure why I do that either. But I'm definately going to need two windows. I need to see what I'm doing. A war on windows? Really?

I'm just glad to see I'm not the only person like that.

The nine days to 1.1 seem distant. The twenty-three days to the next one seem worse.

YK
Hawksfield
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#584 - 2012-06-10 21:25:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Hawksfield
A war on windows? Really?
"The team are doing everything they can to make this of minimal impact to you, but the tree view itself is not going anywhere so I hope that you can come to terms with it in some way."
sad thing is that the unified inventory system is so much of a non-game play item. it should not be this much of a fight to get you ccp to realize it needs undoing!

so this is my coming to terms with it!


CANCEL SUBSCRIPTION!
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#585 - 2012-06-10 23:03:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Hawksfield wrote:
A war on windows? Really?
"The team are doing everything they can to make this of minimal impact to you, but the tree view itself is not going anywhere so I hope that you can come to terms with it in some way."
sad thing is that the unified inventory system is so much of a non-game play item. it should not be this much of a fight to get you ccp to realize it needs undoing!

so this is my coming to terms with it!


CANCEL SUBSCRIPTION!


While im not cancelling my sub i will be dissapointed if this is their ultimate position since its utterly ******* ********.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#586 - 2012-06-10 23:13:10 UTC
Hawksfield wrote:
A war on windows? Really?
"The team are doing everything they can to make this of minimal impact to you, but the tree view itself is not going anywhere so I hope that you can come to terms with it in some way."
sad thing is that the unified inventory system is so much of a non-game play item. it should not be this much of a fight to get you ccp to realize it needs undoing!

so this is my coming to terms with it!


CANCEL SUBSCRIPTION!


This is a permanent Subs-a-geddon.

CCP suicide ganks your subscriptions. You lose your subscription, CCP loses their employees.

Oddly enough, nobody is trolling on the GD forum about "Adapt of die" about this.
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#587 - 2012-06-11 01:15:47 UTC
Arcane Sun wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
I guess the only upside is that it appears judging by the isotope prices that all the bots are broken since the new UI is impossible to use lol

My guess was that this was probably one of the REAL goals of this downloadable FUBAR machine known as the Unified Inventory.


Brilliant conspiracy on CCP part. Damn I'm impressed. Keep the UI broken in new ways every day and make it completely unpredictable. However at this point it's so fubar i swear it would be faster if they asked for a captcha every time you dock into a station.
Arcane Sun
Doomheim
#588 - 2012-06-11 01:29:37 UTC
Dream Five wrote:
Arcane Sun wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
I guess the only upside is that it appears judging by the isotope prices that all the bots are broken since the new UI is impossible to use lol

My guess was that this was probably one of the REAL goals of this downloadable FUBAR machine known as the Unified Inventory.


Brilliant conspiracy on CCP part. Damn I'm impressed. Keep the UI broken in new ways every day and make it completely unpredictable. However at this point it's so fubar i swear it would be faster if they asked for a captcha every time you dock into a station.

Please don't give them any more moronic ideas, we have enough problems as it is just trying to load windows. Next thing you know people wont be able to play the game at all because of some Google/CCP tariff or something.

If at first you don’t succeed, call it version 1.0

Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#589 - 2012-06-11 01:30:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dream Five
Captain' Jack Sparrow wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
The team are doing everything they can to make this of minimal impact to you, but the tree view itself is not going anywhere so I hope that you can come to terms with it in some way.


I missed this post earlier, and having read it, I am very disappointed. This closed-minded mentality WILL cause people to let their subscriptions lapse.

Honestly, I was planning to wait it out with my three accounts, and see if CCP pulled their heads out of their a$$es. The statement above might just change my mind.

Anyone have the skill book "Exit Strategy 101"?




Well.. I'd cut them some slack.. you can't hang on to individual statements (i'm sure i've been guilty of that in the past though lol). People say stupid stuff, i'm no exception i'm sure. I'm sure he didn't really mean it that way (or did he?). But yeah it's quite concerning that they don't see maintaining the existing customer base happy as a requirement for their new changes. They really should be thinking of it as a design problem with multiple requirements. A requirement "we want fewer windows" is kinda lame in of itself. I suspect the true requirement was to make it
a) easier for new players to get into the game and find stuff
b) simplify inventory management for existing players
c) absolutely not make it a total PITA for a massive number of people goes without saying but apparently wasn't on the list

i suspect
a) partially succeeded, new players just open one window and see all the stuff there and ask their questions. However as they learn more about the game they become more accustomed to various features and will get progressively frustrated
b) FAIL
c) FAIL

final score = minimum of all requirements satisfied (requirements are required duh) = FAIL

HOWEVER a) could be EASILY accomplished without b) and c) going completely south.

As I suggested earlier one idea (there could be other simple solutions) is to tie the 3 common UI windows (cargo, ships, station assets) into a view with 3 tabs that pops up when you click inventory. The tabs could then be separated and you'd have a UI option to make it so the inventory shortcut wouldn't open these 3 windows as linked. People are really used to tabs believe it or not. Tabs are everywhere - browsers, mobile. MSFT and AAPL spend millions of dollars on UI research and they come up with tabs for browsing. Hmm. I haven't seen any trees anywhere on windows or android lately. Why would that be? Maybe thats because trees are not that great. Just think about it for a second. There was a bunch of ways to accomplish a) and b) without "accomplishing" c).

So CCP: Back to the drawing board please and get some info on how people actually play this game before you make changes. Best off put someone who plays this game on doing UI work. And please someone who can save and restore the state of windows to and from a hard disk without bugs in that code (can be challenging i know).

Of course I'm somewhat having a 20/20 hindsight here but man, this is a really really bad mess up.

In the mean time rollback.
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#590 - 2012-06-11 01:45:18 UTC
Spinny circles Unified Inventory That Doesn't Load on 2 accounts just now still. Can I see my inventory at least? Seriously? This bug was in for what weeks now reported by multiple people?
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#591 - 2012-06-11 01:47:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Dream Five
Relog on one of accts twice in a row spinny circles of CCP can't be bothered to test their code.
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#592 - 2012-06-11 04:25:07 UTC
As an aside, there is a very real possibility that CCP is using this experiment in User Interface acceptance as a means for firing customers who will not put up with CCP's poor customer relationship management capabilities.

It is evident that CCP is not interested in customer satisfaction (putting aside those who will never be satisfied) nor is CCP interested in putting forth user-centric design. CCP has their own agenda and customers who question those motives are frankly not worth CCP's time. CCP's actions make this very clear.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
#593 - 2012-06-11 04:39:34 UTC
Part 1 of 2:

I have been patiently and continually filing bug reports and posting usablely outlined "Issues" and "Feedback" for 3 weeks, and I have now compiled a list of THANK YOUs ... and ... REMAINING/NEW ISSUES (as of Inferno 1.0.10):

THANK YOU FIRST TO ADDRESSING/FIXING THE FOLLOWING:

- MOVING "ALL-SELECTED" ITEMS: ** FIXED! Thank you!
- TOO LONG "TAB" NAMES: ** FIXED! Thank you!
- LAG: Trading/Job Delivering/Moving Massive Amounts/Stacking All/Selling Items: ** FIXED! Thank you! ...Though you do have several other new lag issues (see below)
- "MY FILTERS" ALWAYS OPEN: ** FIXED! Thank you!
- MORE TIME-CONSUMING: ** Well.... not quite there, but it's much better. ESPECIALLY "ISK Estimation" not causing noticable lag. Thank you. Please don't stop... (read onward)


...AND NOW THE NEW (AND STILL EXISTING) ISSUES (and UNADDRESSED FEEDBACK/FIXES):

- "Nothing Found" REMAINS IN ALL UI WINDOWS' CONTENT BACKGROUNDS AND TRADE WINDOW BACKGROUNDS (when any opened hangar, container, deliveries window, cargohold, etc): If an EMPTY Unified Inventory window of any kind is opened, anything you place into the window(s) remains with the "Nothing Found" words in the background of each window. I'm sensing a theme of this error as I write this...

(see screenshot)

- CHANGING CORP WALLET DIVISIONS: ...STILL takes 10+ seconds each time it is changed.

- INITIAL LOGGING IN TO GAME HAS MASSIVE "SPINNING WHEELS" LAG: It appears if there are several windows open (i.e., Station Inventory, Ship Cargohold, Corporate Hangar(s), Ship Inventory, Deliveries, for example) then it takes 15-45+ seconds for the game to load up all inventory (or lack of) in each remembered-window opened from previous logge din session... thus the appearance of the "spinning wheel of waiting"... Sometimes sufferably.

- "SPINNING WHEELS" ALSO OCCURS WHEN DOCKING INTO A NEW STATION (as above bug): This is especially noticable when docking with a new station that has another corporate office of own corp. THIS HAS BEEN MENTIONED BY MY OWN MINERS AS: A "HINDERENCE" to (what used to be) a quick "mine-dock-dump ore-undock" procedure. (This obviously has reduced mining by up to 75% if a corp member is continually docking with a corp-office-station. To "lessen" this lag, miners have reported that mining and docking-dumping-undocking at NON-CORP OCCUPIED stations help "lessen" this lag, but is ultimately cumbersome to massively haul final mined ore to a corporate-office station in the end.

- "SHIFT-CLICK" STILL DOES NOT OPEN ANY CONTAINERS IN ANY UNIFIED INVENTORY WINDOW: It's ridiculous for me to not use a shortcut that, though worked last week, doesn't now. NOW, I have to "expand" an existing window to see the "TREE"... and then adjust its width so that I can read all the "too far inset to the right" containers in hangars... then right click and select "Open in new window"... then compress the pointlessly narrow "tree exposure". Too many steps for something that could easily be solved simply by DOUBLE-CLICKING the container and have it open in a new window... or a new tab. **Unaddressed since my notation on June 3.

- LACK OF VISIBLE "ROW" DIVIDING LINES IN ALL "UNIFIED INVENTORY WINDOWS": Take a look at the market listings, or the listings of the Science & Industry wndows... ALL ITEMS HAVE VISIBLE ROW LINES. The Unified Inventory windows all lack those lines. Oh, sure, they're there... AT 10% OPACITY. ** Unaddressed since my notation May 24. HIGHLY needed!

(see screenshot)

...AND because your rows lack lines (when not using any icon-type listing), a person may need to use the mouse pointer to "highlight" and item and its contents... SADLY, when this happens, a window pops up and obstructs what I'm trying to see. This has been noted since May 24 verbatim as:

- "POP UP" INFORMATION IS UNNECESSARY AND BLOCKING MY VIEW: ** This is VERY annoying and unchanged since May 24. When hovering my mouse over an item in hangar, it sometimes is because I'm comparing the quantities of it to another item a few lines above it (especially since there are no visible dividing row lines in LIST mode). SADLY I CANNOT "SEE" anything in those spots (whether name or quantity, etc) being covered by by "estimated prices for both unit price and stack price... in the "compact line-by-line listing mode" (which I use because, well, as you may have seen, my screen has a lot of stuff to look at all at once), this is literally making my tasks more of a pain.

(see screenshot)

- EXISTING WINDOWS IN SPACE DO NOT CLOSE WHEN NOT PRESENT: Currently, secure/loot containers in space, POS containers/hangars/modules, Planetary Customs Office windows stay open, even when warping away from them. IN SOME INSTANCES, the existing open windows get "compressed"/"shoved" into the area of where one's own ship's cargohold UI window is.

- CORPORATE TAXATION IS NOT FUNCTIONING: Several members (for example) of my own corporation have noticed that JUST BEFORE AND AFTER Inferno was "released", certain members' mission rewards, bounties, etc (that appear as taxable ISK which is taken from corp member wallets and deposited into the corp's Master wallet) IS NO LONGER FUNCTIONING. [This has been reported with no response.]

- BRACKETS AND LOWERCASE "TAILED" LETTERS ARE TOO LOW - INTERFERING WITH CHAT WINDOW's TOP LINE VS. EXISTING BAS: The brackets and the tail lowercase letters "q,y,p,g,j" and brackets (i.e. "Local [36]"), all extend BELOW the line of the tabs and the current/"foremost" open chat window borderlines... [Bug Report #135869]

(see screenshot)

CLIENT: Windows XP Pro SP3
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
#594 - 2012-06-11 04:39:44 UTC
Part 2 of 2:

HIGHLY IMPORTANT SUGGESTIONS:

- PLEASE MAKE "ISK-CALCULATING/EST" VALUES "OPTIONAL": ** Still not publicly addressed: It's really frustrating. Personally, with price estimation and such, that's one of my corporate jobs. THOUGH NOW ITS LAG IS NOT AN ISSUE - ITS TAKING UP SCREEN SPACE... and by the way, "honestly, your price estimations are 50% terribly wrong". I work (play?) in EVE mainly with items of value.
I WILL AGREE, THOUGH: For some people, especially non-industrialists and new players, this may be helpful for those players, BUT PLEASE MAKE IT AN OPTION: IT'S NOT FOR EVERYONE.

- PLEASE ALLOW "ROLLOVER NAMES" FOR ITEMS PARTIALLY VISIBLE IN EXPOSED TREE SECTION OF ANY UNIFIED UI WINDOW: This is something that is quite opposite of ALL other "mouseover" behaviors in the game. I can rollover anything, and its full name (or too much information, like costs of items, etc) will always appear... UNTIL I hover over ANYTHING partially exposed in the "narrow TREE view". This is LESS PRODUCTIVE since I have to not only expand to view the "TREE", but I have to then grab the axpansion divider atop and DRAG IT to the right to be able to read ALL my containers inside hangars inside "CORPORATION". EXAMPLE: In my corp, all containers are named ">> INSERT NAME HERE" to help with alphabetization/organization/ease of discernation. However if we have 10 containers in a Corporate hangar, the "opened TREE view" lists it like this:

>> [line]
>> [line]
>> [line]

So instead of having to drag open the "TREE exposure" column more, if I could see a "pop up/mouse-over" name of the container I can PARTIALLY see, then I can open up the container much more quickly without additional movement and dragging.

- IF YOU DOUBLE-CLICK a place you would like to open, PLEASE MAKE IT AUTOMATICALLY FORCE OPEN in a NEW window. OR GIVE US THE OPTION TO MAKE "DOUBLE-CLICKING" A CONTAINER PERFORM THIS TASK... Because, as we are ALL so used to double-clicking to open a new tab. But NOW, if we do double-click anything, we're stuck with a new window in the same window were in that we can't GO BACK from. This is ridiculously time-consuming. ** This issue/feedback has been noted since May 24.


...AND YES: I have cleared my Cache and reset my Settings more times in the past 3 weeks than I regularly have since January 2012.

So please, when I file a bug report, can someone mention to the Bug Report Responders to include MORE "possible" information than simply "Please try clearing you cache and resetting your settings. If the issue persists, please reopen your report. Thank you."

CLIENT: Windows XP Pro SP3
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#595 - 2012-06-11 05:29:33 UTC
OK CCP: Another weekend trying to work around the mess. Another weekend dealing with systemic interference with game play.

The tedium, confusion, aggravation and disruption of gameplay is wearing down players. This system is broken on a fundamental level; best for all that it be rolled back.

-- One might wonder if that pool of players is far, far larger than the number of people on the Forums still trying, in vain, to get through.
-- I for one believe this to be true based upon ingame convos, emails, and discussions on out-of-game voice channels.

IMHO, the level of interest/hope that the system described as "... here to stay..." will ever reach pre-release functionality is now far less than a growing level of apathy.

It may be that a growing number of players don't care:
a) how this happened, or
b) why test server feedback was ignored, or
c) which new Dev will be next to pick up the task of posting encouraging message, or
d) why this mess is still in the live game.

Perhaps there might be a significant number of players who just want this gone. If it moves back to the test server for repair, fine; if not, that's fine too. Just get it gone.

IMHO, sheer fatigue coupled with a growing certainty that earlier functionality is gone for good may just be propelling players to the exit. I doubt it will be a sudden flood, rather an escalating event.

CCP: Incarna-like rage-quit probably isn't the concern; beware of permanent disaffection.
Georgiy Giggle
REFORD Division
REFORD
#596 - 2012-06-11 09:22:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Georgiy Giggle
Another issue that is pissing me off:

When docked in a station and open inventory, I see not item hangar, I see cargohold.
I hate your new inventory with a whole my soul!

So many patches, and inventory is still piece of *something bad*.

And when will we HAVE NOT TO PRESS SHIFT to open cargohold\wreck\cargo container in a new window?
Also... when will you make 2 different icon on neocom for SHIP HANGAR and ITEM HANGAR???

Not mastering proprieties, won't become firmly established. - Confucius

Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#597 - 2012-06-11 09:43:25 UTC
Another issue I haven't seen reported yet:

Before Inferno, I used to be able to move both ships and items together from a common container (for example, a freighter's cargo hold) to either my item hangar or my ship hangar. Ships and items would automatically sort themselves in the appropriate hangar.

Now, selecting both ships and items (commonly through ctrl+A in my freighter's cargohold) and dragging to my items hangar only moves the items, and leaves ships in place. Conversely dragging to the ships hangar only moves ships. Unloading a freighter full of supplies therefore now takes twice as long, as I have to unload ships and items separately.

Worse, if I unload items first, and no ship icons remain on the first page, the UI does not scroll to show the ships' icons. Instead I am left with a blank window giving me the wrong impression that the freighter's cargo is already empty. I have to manually scroll down to see the ships and be able to drag them.

tl;dr:

Before:
Ctrl+A
Drag everything to either ships or items hangar.

Now:
Ctrl+A
Drag everything to items hangar.
Scroll down.
Ctrl+A
Drag everything to ships hangar.
Dennie Fleetfoot
DUST University
#598 - 2012-06-11 11:32:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Dennie Fleetfoot
I'm loving how it's now becoming the trend for others to say if you don't like the new UI you must be a botter.

CEO Dust University

CPM 1&2 Member

www.twitter.com/DennieFleetfoot

Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#599 - 2012-06-11 12:46:40 UTC
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:
I'm loving how it's now becoming the trend for others to say if you don't like the new UI you must be a botter.

Pay those trolls no attention.

If CCP made this Inventory UI change specifically to thwart botters, then *welp.*

Separately, I am really curious about the change management philosophy under which CCP was operating when this UI design was drafted, approved and handed to the coders for implementation.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Maul555
Xen Investments
#600 - 2012-06-11 13:02:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Maul555
My biggest gripe remaining is the window hijacking behavior of the new UI. This has also been my biggest gripe since the beginning. The only reason a window should ever change views, is if I open the tree and make it change inside that window. Trying to open anything else, with any method, for any reason, should open a new window by default. Bringing back open with double click should fix this, and fix Looting which has become fubard. My multiple open windows is my work on my desk. Your UI constantly tries to shove my work off of my desk. STOP IT!


Aside from that I want my right click menus back. do these and I will shut up and be happy.

PS: oh yeah, and neocom buttons, and close "gone" containers instead of reverting to cargo hold view...