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New dev blog: Next Unified Inventory Update

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Acks
RONA Corporation
#521 - 2012-06-09 00:00:20 UTC
Captain' Jack Sparrow wrote:
OK, now that I am at the correct "official" thread (thank you CCP Explorer) I am hoping to get an answer.

The Unified Inventory, as described on CCP's own website, does NOT seem to be the same as the Unified Inventory that I am forced to use in-game.

Quote:
Unified Inventory - Your entire fortune in a single click

You have hangars of ships at your disposal and wealth that spans the galaxy. Unified Inventory gives you convenient access to all of it. Searching for your favorite ship is now easier. Assessing your stockpiles, more convenient. Admiring the fruits of your labors, more rewarding.


Taken from this page --->>> http://www.eveonline.com/inferno/unified-inventory-ftr/

To me, it seems like this "feature" was intended to be used under the assets tab, and then got sidetracked into this mess we have now. In my opinion, the assets tab is the perfect place for this new toy.

Could a DEV please explain what has happened here? Your website contradicts the reality of the game.

Thank you so much.




This! So very much this!!! If you want to quote this also here is the direct link to the post:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1446690#post1446690
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#522 - 2012-06-09 00:34:11 UTC
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
Before I consider taking advantage of the $10 / 30 days account re-activation offer, can somebody confirm that capital ship hangars (carrier, specifically) are:

1) easily accessed by the ship owner either sitting in the ship or when the ship is sitting in a station hangar unoccupied?
2) able to be accessed in-space by corp or fleet mates who either have the roles or are ganged up? Same for the ship hangar?
3) can be accessed via right-clicking the capacitor instead of using the left-nav index column (aka, the abomination)?
4) can be set up in a tabbed window configuration for easy flipping back and forth between corp hangars and the fuel bay?
5) that same tab-filled window be minimized and re-opened / clicked as needed whether in-station or undocked?

Thank you very much, in advance.


No you can't do any of this, maybe except 2) somehow.
Zeronic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#523 - 2012-06-09 00:43:02 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Zeronic wrote:
Hey CCP Soundwave (or any other CCP wants to try),

When I drop item in to another Corperation Corperation Hanager Array, in say the first division it just gives me this error "You have been denied access for the following reason: This office does not belong to your corporation." Yes it is another Corporation PoS structured but before the new UI system we could still drop in. The function needs to be restored or improved.

I keep missing the thread shift and these seems to be on deaf ear.


I'll check this one out in the morning.



Any possible updates?? Thanks
Par'Gellen
#524 - 2012-06-09 00:50:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Par'Gellen
Kusum Fawn wrote:
also rereading the dev blog reminded me that he also wrote this ->
CCP Arrow wrote:
we came up with what we are certain is the correct answer: a single window (please tell us it’s the right one).

I think we have told you what out answer is.

Yep, we've been screaming to them that this is not the right answer but they get all defensive and choose to just pretend that we are idiots that can't tell the difference between a carrot and a cowpat. They are the devs after all. Virtual GODS (all caps) that can do no wrong and never have to take a second critical look at something they have passed their miracle-working hands over.

I'm so disgusted with CCP and their attitudes regarding this abomination of a UI that I can barely put it into words... But hell I'll give it a shot.

"You want something as simple as to be able to collapse the static cargo view attached to the treeview down to nothing because you don't need it and it takes up an idiotic amount of space? You must be too stupid to use the new UI correctly. DENIED!"

"You want something as simple as the cargo headers, item count, and estimated value on the same lines because it takes up too much space the way it is now? You must be too stupid to use the new UI correctly. DENIED!"

"You want it to not take twice as many clicks AND keyboard inputs to do exactly the same thing you used to do before? You must be too stupid to use the new UI correctly. DENIED!"

No, I'm not butthurt... I am OFFENDED by this garbage.

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#525 - 2012-06-09 01:37:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Down with one window. Im looking in containers, not browsing my hard drive. Theres a difference in immersion, visability and efficiency. And the new system is not an improvement to any of those.

I will only be satisfied if the game realises that;

Cargo Holds
Drone Bays
Corp Hanger Arrays
Fuel Bays
Station Containers
Cans in Space
Wrecks

...etc, are all different things (and not one unified file structure), and remembers where i set the previous contents window of any of those particular items.

For example, i buy a new ship and get into it, double click, opens cargo hold in the same location as where i set my last ships cargo hold window, as in, cargo hold window locations are persistent and stack with other cargo holds.
I open a wreck in space, it opens where i opened my last wreck, NOT OVER MY CARGO HOLD (unless the user stacks it with their cargo hold of course), then i can easy drag what i want from one to the other with the minimum number of mouse clicks possible.

The same as above applies to all other container types listed above and any others i may have left out. This way we are free to REDUCE mouse clicks and INCREASE visibility over what we are trying to accomplish with our assets.

If i want my drone windows AND cargo holds to open in the same location, then i can simple join the two stacks together.
Having EVE actually recognise where i put my last cargo hold and open a new ships cargo hold in that location would actually be an IMPROVEMENT over how it used to be.

The ONLY time i want to navigate using 1 window is when i open the navigation pane(in the ass) and manually navigate around. Though i dont see that happening alot if you can just please drop this nonsense and for once give us what we want without making thousands of players quit.

I hope this is clear. You are heading in the wrong direction with this.
Lord Loco
LOCO TRUST
#526 - 2012-06-09 01:42:23 UTC
Welcome to eve offline. The new UI has been created to discourage players from playing. Another way to fix Lag.

.
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#527 - 2012-06-09 02:09:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Dream Five
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Down with one window. Im looking in containers, not browsing my hard drive. Theres a difference in immersion, visability and efficiency. And the new system is not an improvement to any of those.

I will only be satisfied if the game realises that;

Cargo Holds
Drone Bays
Corp Hanger Arrays
Fuel Bays
Station Containers
Cans in Space
Wrecks

...etc, are all different things (and not one unified file structure), and remembers where i set the previous contents window of any of those particular items.

For example, i buy a new ship and get into it, double click, opens cargo hold in the same location as where i set my last ships cargo hold window, as in, cargo hold window locations are persistent and stack with other cargo holds.
I open a wreck in space, it opens where i opened my last wreck, NOT OVER MY CARGO HOLD (unless the user stacks it with their cargo hold of course), then i can easy drag what i want from one to the other with the minimum number of mouse clicks possible.

The same as above applies to all other container types listed above and any others i may have left out. This way we are free to REDUCE mouse clicks and INCREASE visibility over what we are trying to accomplish with our assets.

If i want my drone windows AND cargo holds to open in the same location, then i can simple join the two stacks together.
Having EVE actually recognise where i put my last cargo hold and open a new ships cargo hold in that location would actually be an IMPROVEMENT over how it used to be.

The ONLY time i want to navigate using 1 window is when i open the navigation pane(in the ass) and manually navigate around. Though i dont see that happening alot if you can just please drop this nonsense and for once give us what we want without making thousands of players quit.

I hope this is clear. You are heading in the wrong direction with this.



They get it and have lofty ideas but are unable to code correctly or even find bugs in their code. Leave them alone. Meaning unsub and play something else.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#528 - 2012-06-09 02:09:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Sturmwolke wrote:
Ah, no. The "soup model" goes against the grain for probably the majority of users.
(You're basically asking them to disbelieve how the modern OS works - which they're currently using on everyday basis)
The even more modern OSes are going in that direction anyway, so it's about time they learn… Blink

But I suppose you're right. A common claim among the unified UI white-knighters is that it's more “modern” even though, as we've seen, it was around (in better forms) back in 1988, so asking those poor backwards guys to jump 25 years ahead is maybe a bit much to ask. P
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#529 - 2012-06-09 02:12:56 UTC
Dream Five wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Down with one window. Im looking in containers, not browsing my hard drive. Theres a difference in immersion, visability and efficiency. And the new system is not an improvement to any of those.

I will only be satisfied if the game realises that;

Cargo Holds
Drone Bays
Corp Hanger Arrays
Fuel Bays
Station Containers
Cans in Space
Wrecks

...etc, are all different things (and not one unified file structure), and remembers where i set the previous contents window of any of those particular items.

For example, i buy a new ship and get into it, double click, opens cargo hold in the same location as where i set my last ships cargo hold window, as in, cargo hold window locations are persistent and stack with other cargo holds.
I open a wreck in space, it opens where i opened my last wreck, NOT OVER MY CARGO HOLD (unless the user stacks it with their cargo hold of course), then i can easy drag what i want from one to the other with the minimum number of mouse clicks possible.

The same as above applies to all other container types listed above and any others i may have left out. This way we are free to REDUCE mouse clicks and INCREASE visibility over what we are trying to accomplish with our assets.

If i want my drone windows AND cargo holds to open in the same location, then i can simple join the two stacks together.
Having EVE actually recognise where i put my last cargo hold and open a new ships cargo hold in that location would actually be an IMPROVEMENT over how it used to be.

The ONLY time i want to navigate using 1 window is when i open the navigation pane(in the ass) and manually navigate around. Though i dont see that happening alot if you can just please drop this nonsense and for once give us what we want without making thousands of players quit.

I hope this is clear. You are heading in the wrong direction with this.



They get it and have lofty ideas but are unable to code correctly or even find bugs in their code. Leave them alone. Meaning unsub and play something else.


Just like with all the crazyness last year most of it would have gone away with a well timed devblog before release of code.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#530 - 2012-06-09 02:19:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
Tao Arnst wrote:
Covert Kitty wrote:
The main thing to remember is that this is the right direction. Yes, they messed up the release a bit, it wasn't ready and they should have known that. However the old inventory system is pretty terrible, so once they get the issues and limitations with the new system worked out, it will be a net gain, and thats good for everyone.

Sure as hell beats being completely ignored for 2 years. The interface as a whole is pretty horrendous, so I am VERY pleased that they are working on it.

The new system is probably also easier to maintain and expand on internally, so hopefully it will set the stage for other improvements like ACL's for rights management of containers/hangers/arrays, and eventually a POS redo.


The right direction is to remove this broken ui altogether and put back the UNBROKEN ui....

I don't care about the next "release 2.0" unless it has been tested by people who REALLY play the game FIRST on sisi.
DON'T bother to release your next "big mess" until you clean this "inferno mess" FIRST.

EVERYTHING else, like ships designs, imaginary smoke in space, or any other "improvements", DOESN'T matter if the ui is broke.
...
Brother, We gave significant and some very well elucidated feedback on the pre-release Sisi version in the form of forum posts, 3rd party blog posts and even youtube videos demonstrating why the new Inventory UI was not ready for prime time on Tranquility. We warned CCP that this change was a real stinker and needed a serious re-work. We even asked for demonstrations on how CCP intended the new UI to be used as many of us were having 'trouble' accomplishing ordinary tasks on Sisi. All of this was done weeks prior to the Inferno release and CCP. And CCP [Soundwave] basically said this **** is gonna go live regardless.

So, all of the sugary sweet talk out of CCP Soundwave over the past couple of weeks is a load of crap. He could of prevented this nonsense and, instead, made the choice to take a dump on CCP's customers.

@ CCP: if there is another legitimate business-oriented reason why this abomination went live other than to fluff CCP Soundwave's ego, then please clarify for your customers. Thanks much.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
Tao Arnst
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#531 - 2012-06-09 02:38:50 UTC
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
Tao Arnst wrote:
Covert Kitty wrote:
The main thing to remember is that this is the right direction. Yes, they messed up the release a bit, it wasn't ready and they should have known that. However the old inventory system is pretty terrible, so once they get the issues and limitations with the new system worked out, it will be a net gain, and thats good for everyone.

Sure as hell beats being completely ignored for 2 years. The interface as a whole is pretty horrendous, so I am VERY pleased that they are working on it.

The new system is probably also easier to maintain and expand on internally, so hopefully it will set the stage for other improvements like ACL's for rights management of containers/hangers/arrays, and eventually a POS redo.


The right direction is to remove this broken ui altogether and put back the UNBROKEN ui....

I don't care about the next "release 2.0" unless it has been tested by people who REALLY play the game FIRST on sisi.
DON'T bother to release your next "big mess" until you clean this "inferno mess" FIRST.

EVERYTHING else, like ships designs, imaginary smoke in space, or any other "improvements", DOESN'T matter if the ui is broke.
...
Brother, We gave significant and some very well elucidated feedback on the pre-release Sisi version in the form of forum posts, 3rd party blog posts and even youtube videos demonstrating why the new Inventory UI was not ready for prime time on Tranquility. We warned CCP that this change was a real stinker and needed a serious re-work. We even asked for demonstrations on how CCP intended the new UI to be used as many of us were having 'trouble' accomplishing ordinary tasks on Sisi. All of this was done weeks prior to the Inferno release and CCP. And CCP [Soundwave] basically said this **** is gonna go live regardless.

So, all of the sugary sweet talk out of CCP Soundwave over the past couple of weeks is a load of crap. He could of prevented this nonsense and, instead, made the choice to take a dump on CCP's customers.

@ CCP: if there is another legitimate business-oriented reason why this abomination went live other than to fluff CCP Soundwave's ego, then please clarify for your customers. Thanks much.


I know that feedback was given and that ccp IGNORED it.

Allow me to make a correction ;)

Tao Arnst wrote:

I don't care about the next "release 2.0" unless YOU(ccp) LISTEN to the players who REALLY play the game, and have taken their FREE time to test it for you FIRST on sisi.
DON'T bother to release your next "big mess" until you clean this "inferno mess" FIRST.


o/

Was the Title "Inferno" given to this release because its a Steaming Pile of S**t? Most people embrace GOOD change Parasites embrace BAD change ccp supports the degradation of society

Zleon Leigh
#532 - 2012-06-09 05:07:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Zleon Leigh
Finding corp hangers closed every time I dock is just plain bull crap. Are they ever going to be sticky again???

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#533 - 2012-06-09 06:10:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Down with one window. Im looking in containers, not browsing my hard drive.


... and I have 9 Explorer windows open to have all my hard drive contents handy.

Oddly enough, those windows remember their positions, spawn easily and I have not used a tree view to open them since early 2000.

Oh, despite using the most modern Win 7, the status bars only contain 1 line of text. Have to tell Explorer I want more details to display 2. I wonder why, eh? Roll


Edit:


The super - rare times I need a tree view, I use an XTree Pro clone that works on Win 7 64 bit and it does 100 times better than EvE's treeview. But hey, XTree came with a wonderful feature, allowing for 2 views at a time. I wonder why, eh?

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Dennie Fleetfoot
DUST University
#534 - 2012-06-09 08:44:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Dennie Fleetfoot
Another fix.

Another fail.

It's remembering where I want the wreck to open on the screen now. But it's still not closing that wreck automatically once looted and turning into a clone of my cargo hold which I then have to close manually. Its a wreck guys. Once looted its just taking up screen space, it should close automatically. If I open inventory in space, and I already have the cargo hold open as a window, the inventory open's where my wreck window is..... So I open it via alt-c and it still does it. I have to shifty click it AGAIN to open another window, resize that so it doesn't cover the overview.......

And so it continues...

I'm going to put this in bold. I'm not internet shouting but it's now getting to the point where I 'm thinking either the devs are stupid (I know they're not, I'm just blowing off steam), don't actually play the game or don't care. It's been three weeks now since the game became unplayable.

Wrecks do not need an inventory. And should be excluded from Unifubared

Containers in space do not need an inventory. And should be excluded from Unifubared.

Station Containers do not need an inventory. We name them after what we've put in them. And should be excluded from Unifubared.

WHY does every window have to be part of bloody Unifubared?? What coding reason prevents us having temporary window's that just has a contents. What was the reasoning behind the decision?

Maybe it is us, the players. Are we not using it correctly? Are we too stupid to understand? Is this concept so far ahead in thinking that its left us in its trail?

I would like a dev-blog. With video and voice over explaining how YOU, the devs use it. Team Game of Thrones claimed in an earlier thread that they couldn't imagine going back to the old working UI... which kinda makes me think they never played the game at all.

So I'm challenging them now. SHOW us how you use it. SHOW us how it improves your work flow. SHOW us that you're right about this and its us that 'don't get it'. We made plenty of video's when it was on Sisi showing why it didn't work. It's your turn now.

Put your money where mouth is, prove us wrong.

But I'm willing to bet you won't because between us all on on these threads and Sisi we've pretty much destroyed your conceit that this was a good idea in the first place.

CEO Dust University

CPM 1&2 Member

www.twitter.com/DennieFleetfoot
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#535 - 2012-06-09 09:05:03 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
ZaBob wrote:
Where do we have the longest potential list of containers?

The Assets window.

Come to a wormhole. Open inventory at a POS.

Good luck bro.


I live in a WH. I manage a POS.

You've got my point backwards. The problem at a POS is that you're generally NOT interested in that long list of locations -- the guns and everything else, when you're, say, moving fuel from hanger to tower.

The Assets window is focused on the task of finding what you have where, among all the possible places. It's the perfect match for the tree view.
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#536 - 2012-06-09 09:13:26 UTC
Dream Five wrote:
ZaBob wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:

Which I assume you mean to be that you do not want to use the tree view at all on basic principle? The team are doing everything they can to make this of minimal impact to you, but the tree view itself is not going anywhere so I hope that you can come to terms with it in some way.


There's a reason why MANY softwares have moved the hell away from tree views and implemented tabs.

It's called basic, simple sense.

Writings are horizontal (western ones). That is, they take lots of horizontal real estate.

Tree views make already large windows unnecessarily larger by putting horizontal information to the left of the window.
Tabs make large windows functional because they take small vertical real estate and zero horizontal real estate.

The very fact you are going against all the accepted modern UI designs and find it good enough to "not going anywhere" is worrysome.

You are implementing outdated and unpractical concepts. The day the UI is bug fee, it will still be conceptually wrong.

See, many times I wanted to send CCP my curriculum but with decision makers taking this kind of directions and then sticking to them, I would feel embarassed. I would probably be bound to some "you won't publicly state your superiors borked grand time" legal agreement as well so I'd be put together the same people who can think these kinds of designs.

No way.



Yes. Tabs are better than trees for reasons outlined. Good reasoning here, worth paying good attention to this one.


True up to a point. You should see the top of my browser window (Chrome), with 54 tabs, each one a favicon rather than something meaningful.

My Eclipse editors end up much the same way.

There comes a point where tabs start to fail -- you can go to multiple rows of tabs, but eventually that fails as well.

Trees have their place. When structure is important, they help. When the list is long, they help.

Where do we have the longest potential list of containers?

The Assets window.


You can't help a long list of containers with a linear structure. You need a 2D list. Wait, thats what we had, thats right.


Some of the good parts of the Unified Inventory address this - search and filters, for example. Not perfectly, but a 2D list isn't perfect either.

Even before, I used naming tricks and search to cut through the clutter to find containers I needed to access quickly.

I'd love to be able to save that search away as a filter on my Neocom, making it just one click away.
Par'Gellen
#537 - 2012-06-09 09:29:34 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Finding corp hangers closed every time I dock is just plain bull crap. Are they every going to be sticky again???

Well you can sort of work around this one but it's not as good as it was before.

1. Open Uniderped Inventory
2. Hold down shift and click on a corp hangar division.
3. Hold down shift and click on another corp hangar division.
4. Continue holding down shift and drag one of the newly opened divisions onto the other one to combine them.
5. VERY IMPORTANT - Close the newly combined window. If you do not do this step then the next time you dock the windows may be spread randomly all over your screen 50% of the time. Yeah it's that stupid.
6. Hold down shift and click on each corp hangar division and they should now all open in a combined window that will open when you dock as long as you don't close it yourself manually.

I just reread these steps and could not help but burst out laughing at how the devs think this is better than the single button click that was needed before. 6 steps that involve navigating a treeview and keyboard input to do what could be done before with a single mouse click. This is laughably idiotic.

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#538 - 2012-06-09 09:32:00 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Down with one window. Im looking in containers, not browsing my hard drive. Theres a difference in immersion, visability and efficiency. And the new system is not an improvement to any of those.


You should see how many Windows Explorer windows (or equivalent on other OSes) I have open on any particular day.

And for the same reason -- I want to look into two or more different containers, and compare, or move, or otherwise work with both locations.

At least on the PC, when I find something in a folder, I may well do something with it.

In EVE, that's nearly NEVER the case. If I find it -- I'm going to move it to another place I have ready for it.

There are a few exceptions:

1) Injecting skillbooks
2) Bookmarks -- don't get me started
3) Making a ship active
4) Refining/reprocessing/repackaging
5) Doing things with blueprints

But most of the time -- we're moving stuff around. Maybe moving in the materials the BPC requires for manufacturing. Loading fuel, loading cargo, unloading cargo, loading ammo, fitting ships, unfitting ships, reshuffling ore in an Orca,

The whole idea that we'd want just one window is .... wrong.
Par'Gellen
#539 - 2012-06-09 09:36:56 UTC
ZaBob wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Down with one window. Im looking in containers, not browsing my hard drive. Theres a difference in immersion, visability and efficiency. And the new system is not an improvement to any of those.


You should see how many Windows Explorer windows (or equivalent on other OSes) I have open on any particular day.

And for the same reason -- I want to look into two or more different containers, and compare, or move, or otherwise work with both locations.

At least on the PC, when I find something in a folder, I may well do something with it.

In EVE, that's nearly NEVER the case. If I find it -- I'm going to move it to another place I have ready for it.

There are a few exceptions:

1) Injecting skillbooks
2) Bookmarks -- don't get me started
3) Making a ship active
4) Refining/reprocessing/repackaging
5) Doing things with blueprints

But most of the time -- we're moving stuff around. Maybe moving in the materials the BPC requires for manufacturing. Loading fuel, loading cargo, unloading cargo, loading ammo, fitting ships, unfitting ships, reshuffling ore in an Orca,

The whole idea that we'd want just one window is .... wrong.

Well said and 100% correct. Hell even when I use Windows Explorer if I need to do file copies or moves I open TWO of them and drag and drop.

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#540 - 2012-06-09 09:38:36 UTC
ZaBob wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
ZaBob wrote:
Where do we have the longest potential list of containers?

The Assets window.

Come to a wormhole. Open inventory at a POS.

Good luck bro.


I live in a WH. I manage a POS.

You've got my point backwards. The problem at a POS is that you're generally NOT interested in that long list of locations -- the guns and everything else, when you're, say, moving fuel from hanger to tower.

The Assets window is focused on the task of finding what you have where, among all the possible places. It's the perfect match for the tree view.



Oh, and please, please, let me find my assets in the WH POS!

If I have access to it, I should be able to find it in the Assets view, corporate or personal. (I should be able to choose).