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New dev blog: Next Unified Inventory Update

First post First post
Author
Jinli mei
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#61 - 2012-06-04 23:06:32 UTC
Oh my god there are so many whiny manchildren in this thread it's amazing.

Thanks for the hard work related to getting this Unified Inventory thing up and running. It can certainly cause some overwhelmingly frustrating annoyances, but change tends to do that anyway.

Out of curiosity, does Perforce not have a 'cherrypick' functionality? It looks as though you could potentially pull fixes out of a separate branch so long as they're in their own commits.

I won't be one of those bizarre naysayers that say you should switch to a different vcs because my anecdotal whimsical reasoning says you should, but not having a cherrypick functionality could really ruin my day developing code on different branches which are major revisions.

Although, from the blog im reading (Cyrtek dude talking about CCP presentation) you guys do some fairly "strange stuff" in relation to artwork and your VCS workflow :P
Ramman K'arojic
Lone Star Warriors
Evictus.
#62 - 2012-06-04 23:35:40 UTC
Soundwave,

Given the vast number of thread-naughts with comments and suggestions from every pod and his dog ; is there are definitive complete authoritative list of improvements that will be made at some point between UI - say between now and end of the year ?

Ramm
MR rockafella
Santa's Factory
#63 - 2012-06-04 23:38:37 UTC
does this mean you will find time to fix the build quota window rounding bug with r.a.m. - tools.

you know the bug where it rounds the r.a.m. - tools usage up to 1 and thus you have to equal to amount of runs you build and not the real amount you need for instance if you do a 1000 runs of some that only takes 1.5 % of a r.a.m.- tool you only need 150 but you cannot click build until you put in 1000 r.a.m. - tools and when build is clicked it only takes the 150 wich is really required the remaining 850 will remain untuched...

you might have missed the about 50 bug reports and this error for about 4 years. just trying to point it out since you obvious have a faulty bug report system.
Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
#64 - 2012-06-04 23:42:38 UTC
Thank you for all the great work recently.
Culmen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#65 - 2012-06-04 23:45:48 UTC
You know at the rate CCP is going... they might end up rolling back the whole thing one piece at a time.

All of this could have been avoided if they just tacked on the tree view to the old inventory scheme and didn't muck with anything else.

Adding a feature to an existing one is probably going to be a lot less painful than replacing it wholesale, AND THEN going on a loop back to the old feature.

There is a fine line between a post and a signature.

CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#66 - 2012-06-04 23:46:08 UTC
Ramman K'arojic wrote:
Soundwave,

Given the vast number of thread-naughts with comments and suggestions from every pod and his dog ; is there are definitive complete authoritative list of improvements that will be made at some point between UI - say between now and end of the year ?

Ramm


Not definitive, we have a long list that we're constantly adding to. You'll very likely see us iterating based on feedback till late in the year if needed, so this feature is definitely not being left behind :)
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-06-04 23:54:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
Ramman K'arojic wrote:
Soundwave,

Given the vast number of thread-naughts with comments and suggestions from every pod and his dog ; is there are definitive complete authoritative list of improvements that will be made at some point between UI - say between now and end of the year ?

Ramm
This cannot be emphasized enough. While CCP's iterative development method on the Inventory stuff does have "patch notes," it is still entirely unclear on CCP's vision of the end-goal for this client UI functionality.

Making changes until the players are happy is the biggest load of crap any project lead can dish up to their clients. CCP has limited human and financial resources which will constrain this work to a particular scope no matter how much sweet talking is served up.

What basic and absolutely necessary design elements has CCP extrapolated from customer feedback? What are the priority items, what items are nice-to-haves and which items are to be back-burnered / left to rot? At what point does CCP say that its customers are happy with the state of this new interface? And what metrics are used to determine that state?

What is this Inventory system supposed to do better? Why not demonstrate some really excellent and real uses cases where this new UI makes the transition easy and rocks our collective inventory management worlds? Show us your excellent work. Please.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2012-06-05 00:00:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
Zer0 Divide wrote:
For your info, the issue is client side. I have tested the unified inventory on 2 different machines.

on a low end computer (lets say, a laptop that is aprox 3 years old by now) the inventory really lacks performace for viewing large containers, moving a large amount of items, trading items, loading the main inventory screen (I have mentioned this in a previous post and I don't like to post a link since I am lazy)

If you are using a high end computer (lets say, I7 920 bla with a lot of specs), you will noticed that the inventory screen does not lag that much.

If your developers are all running a high end cpu (which I think this is the case), improvements wouldn't really matter much imho since a developer on a high end CPU wouldn't notice a fraction of a millisecond by making changes.

There are some things that apparently constantly refresh / check / whatever the items in the UI making it sluggish as hell. With the previous inventory system this was never the case.
And this is where CCP's salaried / contracted Quality Assurance Engineers come into play, testing scenarios where client-side system resource availability is either throttled or the actual hardware is dated / capability-limited.

There was a drive by CCP w/in the past year or so to collect older hardware in order to accomplish this very task. Whether or not this is happening only CCP knows.

As I wrote in another one of these Inventory threads, that the QA professionals involved with this project signed off on the released version is mind boggling to me. Something went seriously wrong, here.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#69 - 2012-06-05 00:05:29 UTC
I'm missing 1 feature... when dragging modules from 1 place to another it would be nice to have the hangar tree automatically scrolling up and down if the window can't contain the full structure?

Pinky
Ramman K'arojic
Lone Star Warriors
Evictus.
#70 - 2012-06-05 00:06:23 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Ramman K'arojic wrote:
Soundwave,

Given the vast number of thread-naughts with comments and suggestions from every pod and his dog ; is there are definitive complete authoritative list of improvements that will be made at some point between UI - say between now and end of the year ?

Ramm


Not definitive, we have a long list that we're constantly adding to. You'll very likely see us iterating based on feedback till late in the year if needed, so this feature is definitely not being left behind :)



Excellent; can that list be shared somewhere so we can see what CPP's version of UI current end-state looks like ?


Ramm
Dennie Fleetfoot
DUST University
#71 - 2012-06-05 00:09:18 UTC
Hummmm had a earlier post removed.

Well, first time for everything I suppose.

Amazed it took this long, the amount of my feedback being very close to ranting. Still, you can't say I'm not passionate about the subject.

I mentioned it earlier but now I've thought more about it an inventory settings box, much like the overview settings box, where you can control the view and filter the states, appearance and behavior of each window you open could be the answer we're looking for.

For example,

A check box for display contents of this window if its a wreck. One for close window on looting. Check for display as cargo hold for current ship only. Tree or no tree. Close window when further than 2500m from object. That sort of thing.

Good idea?

CEO Dust University

CPM 1&2 Member

www.twitter.com/DennieFleetfoot

Cuchulin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-06-05 00:17:59 UTC
Quote:
What is this Inventory system supposed to do better? Why not demonstrate some really excellent and real uses cases where this new UI makes the transition easy and rocks our collective inventory management worlds? Show us your excellent work. Please.


This is excatly what I would like to see too. Right now I am having the feeling all of this was change for changes sake. If this new UI is superior, to the old UI, than please show us how to handle it.
Maybe a series of youtube videos with your vision how people are supposed to use the new Inventory ? This could also potentially lead to some good feedback comparing UI handling of users and devs.

I for one am at a loss with many things still.... mostly when I try to search through lots of shiphangars quickly for the odd nanite paste or when I try to loot something in space and the wreck inventory overrides my ships cargo . But maybe I am using the whole thing wrong because I am used to things working in a certain way for the past 6 years....so enlighten me !

For me personally it would also very much help to get a final list of things you guys plan to change. It seems that you made some people happy with the changes in the past two weeks. I on the other hand did barely notice them, I guess because of my playstile. I think it might give a lot of people a stress relieve if they would know that their favorite feautre XY is actualy worked on (meaning less drama on the forums). In addition it might provide you with some perspective on your vision if lots of people are complaining because feature XZ is not on the list of things you want to do.

Anyway.... I will not cancel my subscription over this.... but it has certainly diminished my EVE experience....
Cuchulin
Lord Helghast
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-06-05 00:31:28 UTC
Noice but also

:( sad panda

as i was starting to really like these weekly small point releases with new tweaks
Lord Helghast
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2012-06-05 00:37:09 UTC
Culmen wrote:
You know at the rate CCP is going... they might end up rolling back the whole thing one piece at a time.

All of this could have been avoided if they just tacked on the tree view to the old inventory scheme and didn't muck with anything else.

Adding a feature to an existing one is probably going to be a lot less painful than replacing it wholesale, AND THEN going on a loop back to the old feature.


Wow you guys really dont get this... THEY COULDNT DO ANYTHING TO THE OLD CRAP, it was 10 year old uncommented crappy code that they litterally had to fork lift out and replace from the ground up, there was no "tacking on XXX" to the inventory, it was a full and entire rewrite they've said it like a DOZEN times already.

Balthizarr
The Banshee Chapter
Pain And Compliance
#75 - 2012-06-05 01:33:38 UTC
Do you have any plans to make important items IE the ammo and Scripts lockable when they're in a ships hold, meaning when your emptying your hold after mission salvaging you can just select everything in the hold and move it all out but the things you need remain locked within???

Another option would be to be able to mark the things you want to keep in the hold as important and then give them a filter option so you don't see them untill you uncheck the tab?

I use my Marauder alot as a missions & salvaging ship and have been know to leave scripts behind when emptying out my loot and only realize when i need them during my next mission! Shocked
Idris Mandela
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2012-06-05 01:45:59 UTC
Rengerel en Distel
#77 - 2012-06-05 02:00:10 UTC
Lord Helghast wrote:
Culmen wrote:
You know at the rate CCP is going... they might end up rolling back the whole thing one piece at a time.

All of this could have been avoided if they just tacked on the tree view to the old inventory scheme and didn't muck with anything else.

Adding a feature to an existing one is probably going to be a lot less painful than replacing it wholesale, AND THEN going on a loop back to the old feature.


Wow you guys really dont get this... THEY COULDNT DO ANYTHING TO THE OLD CRAP, it was 10 year old uncommented crappy code that they litterally had to fork lift out and replace from the ground up, there was no "tacking on XXX" to the inventory, it was a full and entire rewrite they've said it like a DOZEN times already.


Unless they've switched to a new coding language, there's really no such thing as crappy old code. If they couldn't understand the code, that's more a failing on their part then the code. Would hate to think the coders they got rid of were better than the ones they have now, but the release of the inventory windows kind of points in that direction.
Anyways, the new inventory does have some good features, it just should have been left on sisi until it was actually ready. I could have waited for the 19th to have a more working version, and I'm sure others would have too.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#78 - 2012-06-05 02:55:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Trinkets friend
In the past couple of weeks, I have noticed improvements in the UI performance. When it first came out, there was a 60-90 second hang time loading a corporate hangar or ship maintenance bay. For wormholes, this was unacceptable.

We also copped an error, constantly, where when we changed ships with a cargo hold open the game would hang. This is less frequent, but it still happens occasionally. Right now, oddly, it happens on one of our POS's but not the other. perhaps that is because one POS has labs with BP's in them, and the other does not? Who knows?

Another bug which is bugging me, is that often when i swap ships, the game seems to hang terribly in an intermediate state between the ships. Graphics show me in a Rapier, but the HUD still shows Cheetah, for instance. I can warp, but I seem not to actually warp off. Bizarre, and related IMO to the UI having to source item info from the server in some way and the message gets lost or something. Iunno, i'm no code monkey. All i know is, I have to relog. This is painful.

I like the renaming of POS modules. It's nice to be able to rename your POS guns with amusing names. Long overdue; and a kludge to fix the tree which otherwise prevents you from actually ever finding and using the SMA and CHA amongst all the guns you need to sperge around your POS to deter random violent space pilots from liberating your goodies.

The problems have got less, but they are still there, even though I am retraining myself to shift-click. It is still slow, and as someone mentioned, it seems to be client-side. I find my UI performance improves when i zoom out 500km so the POS bubble and pretties disappear; or F10 to solar system map while shuffling folderol around between my cargo and the POS hangars. This is on a decent machine with a 4GB gfx card - but an ATI not an NVidia, so obviously not as well coded for as CCP/NVidia's buddy-buddy stuff. A bit detrimental.

Part also seems to be the fact the UI searches for item values - in w-space, this seems to take longer because there is no market, I dunno.

More generally, the UI is a bloated space octopus of a "feature" which is sucking the life from the forward momentum of the game. The issues, above, still aren't fixed and it costs me enjoyment because in w-space when I find tengus to gank I don't want my second client to hang because i decide to swap ships with a cargo open because the cargo happens to be empty of cap 800's and I know my neut phoon has 800's in it. That's not kosher. Time is tight, I don't want to have to close the cargo before interacting with a hangar, and hope the game doesn't hang so badly I have to relog - I want to cange ships and gank dudes.

I appreciate the progress being made, and the work being done. I still doubt that this was a Good Thing, all up, and am yet to be convinced. I hope that the next iteration of updates addresses some of the pre-nerfed items (web drones) and craziness in balance (merlin) and you guys have enough time and headspace to get them more right.
Citrute
The High and Mighty
Carebear Abortion Clinic
#79 - 2012-06-05 03:16:05 UTC
Confirming that i'll continue to play not eve ti'll the end of the year then.

I'l be submitting a petition asking you freeze my accounts and remaining playtime until this **** is taken care of. Let me know when you're done dicking around and you put the old one back in, thanks.
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2012-06-05 03:34:32 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Hey, sorry we've been hogging up all your time trying to get you to fix something we didn't want released yet. I'm sure most people would have been fine waiting until the next main release for this instead of the half-assed version we've been dealing with.


^^ not empty quoting.