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New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

First post First post First post
Author
Asmodes Reynolds
Rayn Enterprises
#1081 - 2012-05-26 16:04:19 UTC
cenourinha wrote:
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote:
Lord Loco wrote:
So, from my side the first account will expire in 8 days. (4 others a few days later)
After this time i will never ever login to eve or subscribe an account.
So roll it back in this time or make it optional. Im not willing to waste my money and time.


They won't.

See you.



And this is why eve will never grow to WoW subscription levels..

And this is why WoW will out last eve...



not necessarily, until recently eve retained people longer than any other MMO once they got over the learning cliff.

CCP seems to be trying to change this however.
Invisusira
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#1082 - 2012-05-26 16:08:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Invisusira
Little basic stuff just absolutely kills this new UI.


Any modern UI, including EVE's old UI:
Double-click to open a new window.

EVE Unified UI:
Shift-click to open a new window.

Any modern UI, including EVE's old UI:
Open a window. Window opens.

EVE Unified UI:
Open a window. Wait for YouTube "buffering" icon. Window opens eventually.

Any modern UI, including EVE's old UI:
Chose how you view your interface; be it icons, a list view, etc. Individual customization for individual needs.

EVE Unified UI:
One massive window that takes up all the real estate on your screen with its bloated tree and oversized borders.


Random example from the other night - I want to trade a ship to my alt. Open up the trade window, drag the ship into it and... nothing happens. Try again, nothing. Go to the actual ship hanger so I can see the icons, now I can finally drag stuff. What is the point of your ridiculous tree if you can't even interact with it?

Why is this on TQ? Why?
cenourinha
Doomheim
#1083 - 2012-05-26 16:17:00 UTC
Invisusira wrote:
Little basic stuff just absolutely kills this new UI.


Any modern UI, including EVE's old UI:
Double-click to open a new window.

EVE Unified UI:
Shift-click to open a new window.

Any modern UI, including EVE's old UI:
Open a window. Window opens.

EVE Unified UI:
Open a window. Wait for YouTube "buffering" icon. Window opens eventually.

Any modern UI, including EVE's old UI:
Chose how you view your interface; be it icons, a list view, etc. Individual customization for individual needs.

EVE Unified UI:
One massive window that takes up all the real estate on your screen with its bloated tree and oversized borders.


Random example from the other night - I want to trade a ship to my alt. Open up the trade window, drag the ship into it and... nothing happens. Try again, nothing. Go to the actual ship hanger so I can see the icons, now I can finally drag stuff. What is the point of your ridiculous tree if you can't even interact with it?

Why is this on TQ? Why?


Becasue we, the player base, suck donkey balls.

CCP know's best dude, trust them to screw us .. err ... sorry, to take us where we dont know
Balder Verdandi
Wormhole Sterilization Crew
#1084 - 2012-05-26 16:17:25 UTC
Invisusira wrote:
Random example from the other night - I want to trade a ship to my alt. Open up the trade window, drag the ship into it and... nothing happens. Try again, nothing. Go to the actual ship hanger so I can see the icons, now I can finally drag stuff. What is the point of your ridiculous tree if you can't even interact with it?

Why is this on TQ? Why?



It's not random .... this has happened to me trying to trade some boosters to an alt as well.

I've already listed most of the big issues, but the smaller ones like this are REALLY what sets me off.


The old system was simple, easy, and effective. And I agree 100% with the "YouTube" buffering look. This UI has become so much fail there isn't a unit of measurement for it.

Spanking Monkeys
ZC Omega
#1085 - 2012-05-26 16:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Spanking Monkeys
its ok.

were going to get some of the functionality back...........maybe.....eventually....possibly

why cant we have it all back CCP?

why cant we have the BETTER inventory back?
Kile Kitmoore
#1086 - 2012-05-26 16:29:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Kile Kitmoore
Balder Verdandi wrote:

It's not random .... this has happened to me trying to trade some boosters to an alt as well.

I've already listed most of the big issues, but the smaller ones like this are REALLY what sets me off.


The old system was simple, easy, and effective. And I agree 100% with the "YouTube" buffering look. This UI has become so much fail there isn't a unit of measurement for it.



Exactly. When I wrote my wall of text walkthru the other day the only way I could wrap my head around all these little issues was just to do a few simple things and just take notes. It was shocking, every turn there was something that annoyed me or left me scratching my head wondering "Why did they do this?", it truly defies logic.

Right now the only thing I am hoping they can do is fix performance and the utter lack of saved UI windows states, then we can start actually get into improving the thing.
Capsuleer Newton
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1087 - 2012-05-26 16:32:23 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
disasteur wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Captain Praxis wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:

...
This feature is not what we want it to be, for that you have our apologies and we'll do everything we can to fix it.
...


Thanks Soundwave, I think that's what we all want to hear.

It's a real shame we got into this situation, but we can't turn back the clock, so the main thing now is to get the UI to an acceptable level of functionality as soon as possible.

o7
Captain Praxis


Agree. As mentioned, my apologies once again and let's hope we can rectify this situation swiftly.



im sorry for asking, but what are your intentions, and how do you think this to rectify?
i understand this is a bizar situation but a little more specific answer would be verry nice


Restoring as much of the old functionality in the new framework.



it really amazes me how you guys work, on onset, i think you guys knew you're pushing a very buggy patch/expansion, unless window not retaining its sort order, or an index pane that resets its size every time you reopen a window or the filter tab that keeps expanding every window reopening, are features...

you pushed a feature that never got an acceptance on SiSi, i marvel at your work ethics and astounded that you could still keep your jobs. RollRollRoll
andyminer
Order Of The Jade Dragon
#1088 - 2012-05-26 16:47:47 UTC
So its now a few days after you forced the new UI on the player base and even after 55 pages on this post we still have this awful new UI that is hated by your player base. People are telling you in virtually every post that they think its rubbish and are pleading with you to roll it back.
It's time to take a deep breath and accept that this has been a mistake and that just trying to fix the new UI isn't going to quell the rage from us.
As stated a hundered times before, abandon the new UI and give us back the old one that worked.
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1089 - 2012-05-26 16:58:20 UTC
LAlpha wrote:
This might be the first or second time I have posted in the forum since I started playing EVE. This so called improved interface is SO BAD I have to post. It has become a PAIN to play EVE. Change it back to the old system that actually worked.


.... and it wouldn't be hard to do either.

- temporary rollback.... those who must save face can do so. I'd live with this just to get this current mess out of the game.
- put this system back on Sisi.... where it belonged, and still belongs.

Take the pages and pages of reviews, suggestions, recommendations, likes and dislikes: begin modifying the system.
- This time Devs approach the work with a focus on the player-driven feedback
- Work towards a targeted reintroduction to the game of parts of this system, with:
- Retention of functions that have met with approval
- Elimination of functions that have infuriated many players
- Strong focus on player-driven customization that includes shutting of unwanted, unneeded functions
- Placement of the system in Assets, not Inventory.

CCP can still tout having 'improved' part of the game, and pilots can get back to playing the game.

For the win ==>> This system is out of the game while in intensive care.

Come on CCP Soundwave.... a bit of battlefield triage would generate much good will from some extraordinarily aggravated players.
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1090 - 2012-05-26 17:09:22 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Mentet wrote:
Strange how CCP have gone very quiet.



It's the weekend, we won't be able to reply at the same pace as we can during the weekdays.

In general though, I'll happily push changes to the inventory out every single week until we're happy. That's something I don't think we've ever done before, but if that's what it takes to make this good, then so be it.

Oh, changes you're happy with. So much for what we (you know, the people paying you money) might be happy with, right?

What the hell are you smoking? You're representing CCP, and yet continue to stand here twiddling your thumbs denying there's a problem. So, let me make this simple for you.

Look at your forums. See how there's lots of threads about people wanting this crapfest gone? See this topic, right here, where the overwhelming majority want the new UI rolled back? I know, it might require opening your eyes, which may be tough, but you can do it, man.

Now, I want you to follow along, here.


  1. Open up your SCM.
  2. Open up the commit log.
  3. Find which commit removed the legacy inventory.
  4. Hit "Revert".
  5. Send to QA Oh wait, you don't have a QA department.
  6. Deploy to SiSi.
  7. Listen to SiSi testers, apply necessary fixes.
  8. Rinse and repeat until SiSi is satisfied.
  9. Deploy to TQ.


See? That wasn't too bad, was it?


Just to clarify, when I say "we're happy with" I mean getting the inventory into a shape that's satisfactory to the playerbase.

No one has at any point denied there is a problem. The fact that I'm telling you we're willing to basically patch this feature every week should tell you as much. I'll happily put it in writing though (again): This feature is not what we want it to be, for that you have our apologies and we'll do everything we can to fix it.


Hello CCP Soundwave:

Please, please! Whatever fixes may be forthcoming:

Makes these fixes to the system on Sisi. Temporary rollback is in order.
DazedOne
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1091 - 2012-05-26 17:11:41 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Mentet wrote:
Strange how CCP have gone very quiet.



It's the weekend, we won't be able to reply at the same pace as we can during the weekdays.

In general though, I'll happily push changes to the inventory out every single week until we're happy. That's something I don't think we've ever done before, but if that's what it takes to make this good, then so be it.



Essentially this is telling me WE (the unhappy playerbase) are forced to deal with this major cluster**** for months while you guys at CCP slowly ATTEMPT to get us back the easy interface we used to have. Let me ask you this Soundwave, do you seriously expect us to keep paying our hard earned money for you guys to work out all the bugs? I demand to know why this was released knowing full well there were tons of problems with it. Why did you bother having players give you feedback on SiSi about this if you guys at CCP were not going to listen to their feedback?

I know I am not the first but I have cancelled all my subs. I honestly feel as though I have been stolen from. I truly wish I could get my money back for one of my subs that just recently got another 3 months worth of time on it. Well D3 here I come.
Tatiana Nixx
Ruby Dracos
#1092 - 2012-05-26 17:18:25 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Mentet wrote:
Strange how CCP have gone very quiet.



It's the weekend, we won't be able to reply at the same pace as we can during the weekdays.

In general though, I'll happily push changes to the inventory out every single week until we're happy. That's something I don't think we've ever done before, but if that's what it takes to make this good, then so be it.


CCP Soundwave wrote:

No one has at any point denied there is a problem. The fact that I'm telling you we're willing to basically patch this feature every week should tell you as much. I'll happily put it in writing though (again): This feature is not what we want it to be, for that you have our apologies and we'll do everything we can to fix it.



Not going to put up a wall of text as to how much this new system pisse me off and what's wrong with it. It has been covered many times before this post.

Just posting to let CCP that yet another customer is pissed about their **** poor treatment of their customer base. Why O'why haven't they learned from their previous mistakes? Don't they remember the Jita riots just a few months ago?

Release FINAL code to the customer base, not half assed code that even CCP doesn't like. F*ckin morons...

Tesla Grass
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1093 - 2012-05-26 17:43:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tesla Grass
I just don't get how the Inventory System ever made it into the patch in the state it was in.
Do the guys that made it even play EVE?, did they ever once, get in a ship and fly around and test it out?
Surely they would only need a few minutes to understand that what they had produced is no where near what would be good enough and fix it.
CCP you could have easily combated all this rage by just getting some of your own employees that play to test this out for a few minutes. Does QA only look at code or do they actually test to see if it works as intended too?

You guys have your internal magazines to challenge how you each think of EVE and radical idea's to change it, but does any of your "teams" go to another "team" and go, this is what we have got, you think this will work? or are you so set in your "teams" you dont work as a single Team.

I've given some constructive feedback about the Inventory system in another thread a few days ago, but the more I use it, the more I just can't believe that you guys would release it in the state it was in.

Of course you will constantly improve it and make it how it should have been, but this should have been little tweaks, not another overhaul of a good idea that you got horribly wrong.

Cheers for the patch CCP but come on, play the damn game.

/rant
Rock Kicker
Full Bore Inc
#1094 - 2012-05-26 17:49:40 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
disasteur wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Captain Praxis wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:

...
This feature is not what we want it to be, for that you have our apologies and we'll do everything we can to fix it.
...


Thanks Soundwave, I think that's what we all want to hear.

It's a real shame we got into this situation, but we can't turn back the clock, so the main thing now is to get the UI to an acceptable level of functionality as soon as possible.

o7
Captain Praxis


Agree. As mentioned, my apologies once again and let's hope we can rectify this situation swiftly.



im sorry for asking, but what are your intentions, and how do you think this to rectify?
i understand this is a bizar situation but a little more specific answer would be verry nice


Restoring as much of the old functionality in the new framework.


So what is so important about this 'new framework' that it should override your customer's desire to have the old inventory back? And why should we, the people who pay your salary, accept reduced functionality? As a programmer with over 20 years of experience myself, if I told that to my customers when I delivered some new code to them, I'd quickly wind up standing in the unemployment line.

This new inventory should have never left the test server until you resolved all the complaints from people who spent their time being your free beta testers.


The new UniFUBAR Inventory.  Where Clickfest rules and Usability fails.

Ketov Aktar
Grey Wolff
#1095 - 2012-05-26 18:05:53 UTC
Ok I logged in to my other account this morning and found that all my items are gone. Ships are there, no assets. It seems to only have affected the station I call home. Everything was there before downtime and now is not. Makes it hard to train a skill when that skill was in a station container that has vanished! My other accounts are ok, just that one is affected. Tried several things like undocking,relogging,clearing cache... nothing works. I subbed a petition and bug report. I know you guys are busy but this makes that acct. pretty much useless until I get my stuff back. Thanks
OnaNisM
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1096 - 2012-05-26 18:08:41 UTC
Seriously, who asked for that new piece of crap that is the unified window.

Doing mainly missions at the moment and when I bring my Noctis to clear all the wreck, it take for ever to grab the stuff in container. Every time I double click on a container, it open in the freaking unified window and then, I have to ****!ng shift click on every single container appearing in this window to open separate windows.

Worst, it take for ever to loot the stuff from those containers as it calculate the estimated regional average price for all items in those and honestly, I don't give a damn about that regional average price...

Elsewhat, if I don't open new windows for every fracking container, I have to click on the container in the crapified inventory window to loot stuff and then lag again, it have to reload the whole stupified inventory window for me to be able to click again on a container inside that slowlyfied inventory window.

Very time consuming, very frustrating.

I WANT MY OLD SYSTEM BACK GOD DAMNIT !! Evil
Ennui Entropy
Doomheim
#1097 - 2012-05-26 18:37:35 UTC
Please give us the option of disabling this. It's slow, confusing, and just unworkable. Trying to loot wrecks quickly is impossible now; i've had to leave the loot behind on several kills today.

The old system was perfect, why can't we have rollback :(
GodsSoldier Aideron
Slam Pig Syndicate
#1098 - 2012-05-26 19:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: GodsSoldier Aideron
Capsuleer Newton wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Ribikoka wrote:
WE want a clear answer from CCP!!!

This inventory system will be part of the Dust 514 ? This is why they dont want to change it and roll back the old one ?
This inventory system need for console controllers ???

We want a direct answer.


No, Dust will be getting its own inventory system specifically tailored for that game. This revamp was not made for Dust 514.


....and i'm the fairy god mother...TwistedTwistedTwisted


obviously ccp play this game to different extents, we all know this. that being said, for anyone that plays eve and puts this into the game to replace what was previously being used, can leave you with no other reasonable conclusion. there really is no reason to "demand" that they give you an answer to whether this "improved" system has only to do with the [ease of use issues with ps3 controllers]... that couldn't be more obvious. but here's my problem with this, and if you agree quote and re-quote this post to death.... I PAY FOR EVE!! EVE THAT I PLAY ON MY PC!! I DON'T GIVE A F^&% ABOUT PS3, AND DUST!! THE PEOPLE THAT PAY FOR THAT CAN WORRY ABOUT THAT. so, in conclusion if dust functionality is going to interfere with my game play on eve then i will no longer be playing it. ccp needs to get there priority's straight and either declare that the eve players on pc will dictate the way gameplay is, or the new dust release is going to!!
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#1099 - 2012-05-26 19:39:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Chokichi Ozuwara
CCP Soundwave wrote:
No one has at any point denied there is a problem. The fact that I'm telling you we're willing to basically patch this feature every week should tell you as much. I'll happily put it in writing though (again): This feature is not what we want it to be, for that you have our apologies and we'll do everything we can to fix it.

If this feature is not what you guys wanted it to be, why the hell do we have to live with it?

That's what has people pissed off. You pushed out something very poor, which you now admit is poor, and yet you still want us to live with it so you can fiddle around on the margins. Your apology doesn't make our gameplay better. The only way you can make things better is to MAKE GOOD on doing everything you can to fix it.

Meanwhile, I am wondering if you can even articulate the top 3 concerns players have about your inventory fiasco. The system is fundamentally wrong for this audience and this style of game. A sandbox game has literally 10s of thousands of unique cases which can only be handled by having an incredibly flexible system so people can devise their own gameplay patterns.

It is CRUCIAL that you don't fit players into one size fits all solutions, because that will never be the case in a sandbox. It's bad enough corporations, contracts and insurance are shite in this game, but to seriously frak up the way people interact with their assets and capacity to quickly iterate for battle means you guys are sabotaging thousands if not 10s of thousands of experiences.

You're making the game worse, and too proud to reverse course. Short-sighted.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.

sera180
Primordial Freelancers
Dark Squirrel Syndicate
#1100 - 2012-05-26 19:45:17 UTC  |  Edited by: sera180
can i ask if we are to keep this system will toy be making the tex on it ajustiaul as i and im sore a fuew others withh find it hard to see size wise my prolem is i have dislexia. just wodering if a text sizez thing like the chat windows woild hellp a lot and the windows save where i put them last or if this paret is all reddy bing sorted =)