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New dev blog: Unified inventory

First post First post
Author
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#741 - 2012-05-22 23:29:39 UTC
Dream Five wrote:
I think it's pretty clear that the people who worked on this new UI never play EVE and have no clue whatsoever what would be convenient for the players and why. Epic fail.





This was pretty much the content of my first posting on the Test Forums over a month ago. Day 1. I was appaled. I went further with it seemed like a new team trying to impress the boss and not the customers. Esp after last summer.

Not ONE THING changed in over 30 days. I'm still astonished it's a reality on TQ.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900

Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#742 - 2012-05-22 23:35:20 UTC
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
I think it's pretty clear that the people who worked on this new UI never play EVE and have no clue whatsoever what would be convenient for the players and why. Epic fail.





This was pretty much the content of my first posting on the Test Forums over a month ago. Day 1. I was appaled. I went further with it seemed like a new team trying to impress the boss and not the customers. Esp after last summer.

Not ONE THING changed in over 30 days. I'm still astonished it's a reality on TQ.
With the threat of layoffs over their heads, the grunts will do whatever it takes to gain favor with those signing off on the 'who makes the cut' list. That may be completely counter to making a great product, but that's human nature for ya.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#743 - 2012-05-22 23:39:00 UTC
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
With the threat of layoffs over their heads, the grunts will do whatever it takes to gain favor with those signing off on the 'who makes the cut' list. That may be completely counter to making a great product, but that's human nature for ya.

It's a stretch....but anything can make sense at this point. certainly more rational than the logic and processes that we have seen displayed today. This is a messy, horrible autopsy after being DOA.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900

rebellius
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#744 - 2012-05-22 23:56:48 UTC
It was a bit funny at first, but its actually really great. Thanks!
Valleriani
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#745 - 2012-05-23 00:54:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleriani
Pros:
-Filter is awesome.
-Loving the extra features like estimated cost.
-Love the 'style' of the interface, (how it shows total value, how it shows total space, the current parts selected size, etc).

Cons:
-Loading times. It takes triple or more the time now to load up a hanger. Why is this? Is it because of all the guns and such? As I said, hide them until requested in a tab. This would make a huge improvement if just necessities were shown first. EVERYTHING except what is currently selected should not be drop-downed unless I order it too when starting.
-Not being able to get to a 'simplified' window easy (Pre-inferno style windows), without having to go the unified interface (Oh the lag!) Once you get the simplified window open through CTRL-clicking, simplified windows vanishing when you jump or dock, making it annoying for mining and cargo running.

Suggestions
-Everything in one area works great but needs some special filters for certain things, like guns should be 'pre-hidden' or in a tab that is closed and does not load until it's actually clicked to save loading time. Right now they make a COMPLETE mess of your PoS listings. Hard to navigate different modules with. Normally end up actually closing the Unified inventory and selecting the next item. which is a time waster.
-You should be able to disable or make it so making the individual windows are easier to access rather then having to open up a slow unified window and CTRL-clicking the window you want to become a individual window. Maybe holding down CTRL and selecting for example, your cargo bay, or a menu item like 'Open Drone Bay', 'Open Ship Maintenance Array' etc would open up without the extra stuff, a plain window, like it originally was. Be nice though to be able to at least toggle to do this by default or not though.

---

At the moment it is not a PoS friendly system, so it does need a bit of work to be pleasing again. While I support the new features, some of the old features worked well, so there should be some sort of blend but being able to access both old/new styles. A simple interface for basic things, and a complex one for when you actually want to sit down and manage. There is no time management in trying to load a 20 second interface when time is crucial, specially if a buddy is being attacked and you need to swap ships, those 20 seconds can make or break everything.


Aside from this, the rest of what I've seen added looks great. I love the Amarr ships, and the missiles are something I've waited for ages on. The wardec and killmails are also something that was a nice touch as well. ;)
Budsin Adar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#746 - 2012-05-23 01:49:08 UTC
Hi there I really don't care for the new way and neither do some other people we do not read it right nor understand itEvil.
I understand launchers only added, Not a combination thing that takes most people longer and I would and other prefer to have old options installed. As a nice jesture. Instead of alot quiting its not a files game like a computer system and i am not one for that as I lost alot of memory on that myself for medical reasons.

Now As for who wants to keep the new way fine But the old way should be there too There was no warning and thats not great to do..So please reset it as an option thanks fly safe everyone o/Ugh
Kblackjack54
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#747 - 2012-05-23 02:10:34 UTC
Opened EVE tonight expecting to find something interesting, should have known better really, went off to do some mining as is my want, only to find the hangars now need a cascade of clicking to get into were I want to work on the Rorqual, Hmmm just as bad in the Assembly array, ok lets see how this works in practice.

Mine a few units, load to transport, run to array single click opens the last opened hangar, drop ore into hangar rinse and repeat, simplicity, easy to work with quick and efficient.

But hey what is this, along comes 'Inferno' and CCP Idiot has his crayons out again.

Mine a few units, load to transport, ooops sorry cant do that first have to run through the open the right hangar sequence as per CCP Idiot's new all singing and dancing hangar inventory selection screen, Ok done that load transport, restart mining laser again as now the hulks hold are full due the the extraordinary length of time the hangar inventory screen took to load and they have all shut off mining, done that fly to array, now what. Oh yer gotta click to open the Rorqual's hangar inventory screen and wait for that to load, then select the right hangar, then shift click the Array and do the same there all before I can dump ore into the correct array hangar.

Right I feel this is a total waste of time, not one bit user friendly, has no useful function in this game at all in the above context so I go looking for the CCP Idiot responsible for this utter rubbish.

Oh it's you again, well lets hope when they do start chopping heads at CCP they make a special effort to ensure yours is one of the first and then erase everything you have done from the game.

Bloody fool.
Erth Paradine
TriFlexure
#748 - 2012-05-23 02:52:42 UTC
Unified Inventory is...

The.

Single.

Worst.

Interface.

Change.

Ever.

In case you missed it, check out just about every single one of the over 400 comments posted to the Inferno Feedback thread:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=111782

Or the more than 400 comments to the Inferno Issues thread:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=111781

Or the discussion about the test server implementation:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=104539

Oh...let's not forget the over 700 posts to this thread...

This blog posting nicely explains things:
http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing

How CCP devs think the changes are somehow acceptable simply boggles my mind...

...and the lag...oh, the lag...
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#749 - 2012-05-23 03:11:58 UTC
Erth Paradine wrote:
Unified Inventory is...

The.

Single.

Worst.

Interface.

Change.

Ever.


Signed.

Quote:
...and the lag...oh, the lag...

This, too. It takes as much as 5 times more time to arrange corp hangars, now.
Especially since inventory don't remember column settings.

And it's still impossible to sort items by "Type" in list or detailed mode.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Challu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#750 - 2012-05-23 03:27:39 UTC
CCP, please test this kinda stuff with staff members who actually play the more repetitive parts of the game, like POS management, manufacturing, invention etc. They would have told you how irritating all this extra clicking and scrolling is.

Incidentally, it seems that all these concerns were raised when the inventory system was put on Sisi - you really didn't think any of those concerns were serious?!
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#751 - 2012-05-23 03:32:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Fabulousli Obvious
Challu wrote:
CCP, please test this kinda stuff with staff members who actually play the more repetitive parts of the game, like POS management, manufacturing, invention etc. They would have told you how irritating all this extra clicking and scrolling is.

Incidentally, it seems that all these concerns were raised when the inventory system was put on Sisi - you really didn't think any of those concerns were serious?!


My main was one of those posting on Sisi Forum. Yes, I feel rather insulted. Tippia is probably REAL po'd doing all that video work and everything about it.

It was all ignored. Not one change in over a month from Day 1.

And people question why I quit ?? Welp, that was in motion before h'geddon even so nothing to do with that at all. THIS though was the Proverbial Straw.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900

Empidonax
First Hydrostatic Core
#752 - 2012-05-23 04:08:29 UTC
Inventory windows are opened in pairs, to move things from one window to the other. When I press the shortcuts I have for ship's cargo and hangar inventory, I expect to find two windows open so I can drag items from one to the other.

I was happy before when I would dock and the hangar floor and my ship's cargo were both already open every time I docked.
Logicycle
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#753 - 2012-05-23 04:47:11 UTC
From the Unified Window Devblog:


As we mentioned before, we are on a crusade against the amount of open windows it requires to pull off any given operation in EVE. A little research, as well as our personal experience, made it clear that the inventory UI was, and to this date is, a big offender in that context.



This is the entire reasoning behind making the Unified Window.

I don't recall anyone ever complaining about their being too many windows in the game.
HaleyBerries
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#754 - 2012-05-23 05:12:07 UTC
Ok SERIOUSLY, I let the new patch load and all that crap, expected that the new system was something ppl who didnt like change were complaining about, then i landed at my POS and tried to do...well ANYTHING

Got pissed and logged out


IN THE NAME OF EVERYTHING HOLY AND DEAR WHAT THE FRAK IS THIS CRAP??????????

I actually regained respect for CCP over the last several months cause they were doing a great job but obviously CCPs brains went to orbit with the POD launch and never came back.

Just setting all 4 of my accounts (which I stupidly pay for on my credit card every month) not to renew this time around, will come back in a couple months to see if CCP pulled the head outta their ass or not cause this new system just wastes any time and effeciency at doing anything down to the point of if I wanna work a boring tedious job Ill go get a second RL job cause at least I get paid to be bored and pissed off.
Delivery Boi
Doomheim
#755 - 2012-05-23 05:19:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Delivery Boi
I (think) I like the direction Unified Inventory (UI) is going, once yall fix the "open on every single session change" and "remembering window position".

But I would really love to see the m3 used (or free space; toggle option?) next to the container / hold / bay / etc in the UI Index pane. If the number ends up being too long, calculated as a decimal or percent would be fine too. I'd give UI a +1 if it included this.

Being able to collapse the "estimated value" section would be spiffy too (or remove it and summon it on demand from elsewhere). For most containers I don't care to see this.

EDIT: I also just noticed dropping onto tabs doesn't work as it used to:
I shift-clicked two containers to get them in separate windows (Orca cargo hold and ore hold). I drop one of the new windows onto the other so they are now tabbed in a single window. I used to be able to drag items from the active tab and drop directly onto the tab of the other container in the window (moving from cargo/corp hangar to ore hold).
Cord Binchiette
Kzinti Confederation
#756 - 2012-05-23 05:19:56 UTC
The simplest solution is just simply to roll back the servers and replace the inventory system with the old one.

Then just take a month or two and come up with a workable solution. Really, there was no real rush to make fixes to a system that worked.

Oh, this time...do a Heuristic analysis of the inventory system. If you don't know what that is, google it. You wouldn't be in this mess if you did that the first time.
Kor Kilden
Thukker Tribe Holdings Inc.
#757 - 2012-05-23 05:34:01 UTC
It'd have been nice if you engaged in that mutilitation of the assets window instead of my ship's cargo bay. I leave that open, in the lower left corner, in a short wide window with the log and chats. Now it's barely big enough to see more than a few items in the cargo at a time.

And when are blueprint copies getting a different name or group instead of a new picture? I always use text, not graphics, for my inventories.
Kor Kilden
Thukker Tribe Holdings Inc.
#758 - 2012-05-23 05:54:22 UTC
And please fix chat channels so they don't show offline people... back to the old behavior would be nice... local and corp chats now lie to me.
Gianath
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
#759 - 2012-05-23 06:21:42 UTC
Had to confirm.... I can say with a heavy heart that trying to loot and salvage after a mission is now officially an ordeal.

What was once quick, easy, and debatably fun extra cash cleaning up after my level 4's in a Noctis is now slow, frustrating, and unfun.

Furthermore, trying to drag several hundred items from a cargo hold to the item hanger, stacking, sorting, and reprocessing things makes me wish I could do without inventory all together. Just... man. I'm sad.

Perhaps that is the true goal of the unified inventory experiment... to make me want to give away my 6 billion m3 of crap I've stockpiled in my hanger over the years and make me fly ships that use no ammo, never salvages or loots, and never has to swap out equipment.
Daeva Teresa
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#760 - 2012-05-23 06:28:41 UTC
I have said it before and im saying it again:
This new window would be great replacement for the assets window, not for inventory windows.

CCP really please dont use Upgraded, Limited, Experimental and Prototype in item names. It sounds like the item is actually worse than basic meta 1 item. Use Calibrated, Enhanced, Optimized and Upgraded. Its really easy to understand that the item is better than meta 1 and its also in alphabetic order.