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War Dec, Kill Reports and New Modules discussion

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CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#441 - 2012-05-16 15:18:36 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP SoniClover
Kadesh Priestess wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
No
It looks like they are mutually stacking penalized on sisi, when do you plan to have build where they are not?


Also, could you answer question from old thread?
Kadesh Priestess wrote:
Fueled shield boosters & shield booster bonuses. Do you plan to apply bonuses which work on plain SBs onto new FSBs? Because currently it looks like a mess.

Bonuses with skill requirement filter by Shield Operation work (because FSB has this skill requirement) - e.g. Hawk shield boost amount bonus.
Bonuses with group filter by Shield Booster do not work (because new SBs have Fueled Shield Booster group) - e.g. Golem

Do you plan to rectify this situation? Towards which variant?



We would like to fix this, but we don't have an ETA on it

Edit: Also, I'll look into the stacking penalties, they shouldn't apply so if they are I have to figure out why.
Kadesh Priestess
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#442 - 2012-05-16 15:31:24 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Edit: Also, I'll look into the stacking penalties, they shouldn't apply so if they are I have to figure out why.
Because both damage mods and rigs are not from stacking penalty immune categories and apply their bonus using PostPercent operation i guess. You could switch rigs to use PreMul / PostMul (and their bonus attribs from 10, 15 to 1.1, 1.15) to put them into separate stacking penalty chain.
Helothane
Ascendent.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#443 - 2012-05-16 16:33:37 UTC
MagSheath Target Breaker can only be fit on t1 and t2 BS (marauders and black ops). WIth -80% to scan resolution on ships that already have lousy scan resolution, can you explain the logic of this one? I might see a Black Ops using it, if all it is doing is being a covert bridge, or seeding a few BS with these on them in a big fleet of BS, but that scan res penalty is a killer otherwise. I assume that scan res penalty applies whether the module is activated or not (like a cloak module).
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#444 - 2012-05-16 16:44:51 UTC
Helothane wrote:
MagSheath Target Breaker can only be fit on t1 and t2 BS (marauders and black ops). WIth -80% to scan resolution on ships that already have lousy scan resolution, can you explain the logic of this one? I might see a Black Ops using it, if all it is doing is being a covert bridge, or seeding a few BS with these on them in a big fleet of BS, but that scan res penalty is a killer otherwise. I assume that scan res penalty applies whether the module is activated or not (like a cloak module).


The initial version of the target breaker had very conservative stats. I've updated the stats a bit - the scan resolution is now -50% and the duration is now 12 instead of 20 seconds. It should be on Sisi tomorrow or Friday.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#445 - 2012-05-16 16:51:02 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Helothane wrote:
MagSheath Target Breaker can only be fit on t1 and t2 BS (marauders and black ops). WIth -80% to scan resolution on ships that already have lousy scan resolution, can you explain the logic of this one? I might see a Black Ops using it, if all it is doing is being a covert bridge, or seeding a few BS with these on them in a big fleet of BS, but that scan res penalty is a killer otherwise. I assume that scan res penalty applies whether the module is activated or not (like a cloak module).


The initial version of the target breaker had very conservative stats. I've updated the stats a bit - the scan resolution is now -50% and the duration is now 12 instead of 20 seconds. It should be on Sisi tomorrow or Friday.

Better.

Any news on cap batteries? Either reduce there fittings or MASSIVELY increase (100%-150% cap neut reflection, barr usage on capitals) the counter measure effect.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction

Helothane
Ascendent.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#446 - 2012-05-16 17:16:28 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Helothane wrote:
MagSheath Target Breaker can only be fit on t1 and t2 BS (marauders and black ops). WIth -80% to scan resolution on ships that already have lousy scan resolution, can you explain the logic of this one? I might see a Black Ops using it, if all it is doing is being a covert bridge, or seeding a few BS with these on them in a big fleet of BS, but that scan res penalty is a killer otherwise. I assume that scan res penalty applies whether the module is activated or not (like a cloak module).


The initial version of the target breaker had very conservative stats. I've updated the stats a bit - the scan resolution is now -50% and the duration is now 12 instead of 20 seconds. It should be on Sisi tomorrow or Friday.


I'm still curious about the BS-only restriction, and what role you envision the module playing. When I first saw the module described, I thought it would be perfect for non-FC command ships. No BS class ships can fit links, however, so there goes that idea.


Something that I haven't tested yet on SiSI: If you have two ship equipped with cap batteries, and one uses a neut on the other, is there a chance for the reflected effect to be reflected in turn by the originator?
Daniel Darkside
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#447 - 2012-05-16 20:26:00 UTC
I noticed that inventing the Drone Damage Amplifier II requires Caldari Encryption Methods. Since this is a drone module, should it require Gallente Encryption Methods?
mine mi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#448 - 2012-05-16 22:39:03 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Helothane wrote:
MagSheath Target Breaker can only be fit on t1 and t2 BS (marauders and black ops). WIth -80% to scan resolution on ships that already have lousy scan resolution, can you explain the logic of this one? I might see a Black Ops using it, if all it is doing is being a covert bridge, or seeding a few BS with these on them in a big fleet of BS, but that scan res penalty is a killer otherwise. I assume that scan res penalty applies whether the module is activated or not (like a cloak module).


The initial version of the target breaker had very conservative stats. I've updated the stats a bit - the scan resolution is now -50% and the duration is now 12 instead of 20 seconds. It should be on Sisi tomorrow or Friday.



-50% it’s like auto sensor dampersned, why not try using other modules, like passive targeting as counter module.
Helothane
Ascendent.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#449 - 2012-05-16 23:03:19 UTC
The small, medium and large versions of the Processor Overclocking Unit blueprints are inconsistent. The small requires charred micro circuits, damaged artificial neural networks and fried interface circuits. The medium requires conductive polymer, damaged artificial neural networks and tripped power circuits. The large requires charred micro circuits, conductive polymer and damaged artificial neural networks. No other rigs change what goes into making them as the size of the rig changes, just how much of each. Is this intentional?

Also, the finished product itself: t1 has a -5% to shield recharge rate, t2 has a -10% to shield recharge rate. First, no other Electronics (or Energy Grid) rigs have a drawback, which is good, as there is no associated skill that can be trained to reduce the drawback. Second, no t2 version of a rig has a worse drawback than the t1 version.

These are breaking patterns that have existed for quite some time. Are these changes to be seen as a new precedent?

Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#450 - 2012-05-17 02:02:40 UTC
If Tracking disruptors are going to increase opponents missile explosion radius...


Will tracking enhancers and tracking computers reduce missile explosion radius as a counter?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#451 - 2012-05-17 05:30:58 UTC  |  Edited by: St Mio
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Kadesh Priestess wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
No
It looks like they are mutually stacking penalized on sisi, when do you plan to have build where they are not?


Also, could you answer question from old thread?
Kadesh Priestess wrote:
Fueled shield boosters & shield booster bonuses. Do you plan to apply bonuses which work on plain SBs onto new FSBs? Because currently it looks like a mess.

Bonuses with skill requirement filter by Shield Operation work (because FSB has this skill requirement) - e.g. Hawk shield boost amount bonus.
Bonuses with group filter by Shield Booster do not work (because new SBs have Fueled Shield Booster group) - e.g. Golem

Do you plan to rectify this situation? Towards which variant?



We would like to fix this, but we don't have an ETA on it

Edit: Also, I'll look into the stacking penalties, they shouldn't apply so if they are I have to figure out why.


Don't forget to make the Ancillary Shield Boosters get bonuses from:
  • Ganglink Modules/fleet bonuses
  • HG/LG Crystal implant sets
  • Blue pills/combat boosters
  • Shield boost amplifiers
  • WH effects (Cataclysmic Variable)

:D
bornaa
GRiD.
#452 - 2012-05-17 09:40:18 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:
If Tracking disruptors are going to increase opponents missile explosion radius...


Will tracking enhancers and tracking computers reduce missile explosion radius as a counter?



This!!!

@ CCP
Why the hell do you want to nerf missiles to the ground???
You remover them from pvp in 95% of the cases... that 5% thats left is still too much for you???

We were asking missile buff ang are getting nerfs... Roll
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#453 - 2012-05-17 09:44:41 UTC
Not to mention it will make Tracking Disruptors into 'one mod to counter them all' which is a HORRIBLE idea.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

bornaa
GRiD.
#454 - 2012-05-17 10:29:17 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
Not to mention it will make Tracking Disruptors into 'one mod to counter them all' which is a HORRIBLE idea.


And it will have more affect against missiles then against turrets... Ugh
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#455 - 2012-05-17 10:40:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
- The option to make wardecs mutual seems to have disappeared... or hidden very meticulously. It's still not clear of this can only be done during the 24-hour warm-up or at any point. Need some clarification here, CCP!

- The tooltip for the corporation icons in the war list show 'offender' and 'defender'. It obviously should be 'attacker' and 'defender'. The opposite of 'offender' would be 'victim', but there is no crime, so no 'offender' either.

bornaa wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
Not to mention it will make Tracking Disruptors into 'one mod to counter them all' which is a HORRIBLE idea.


And it will have more affect against missiles then against turrets... Ugh

Typical situation where a ton of players argument it's a bad idea, but CCP (or rather some foolhardy devs) goes ahead and do it anyway. Missiles don't need a counter at the moment, but if they would, it'd have to be a separate module.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Avila Cracko
#456 - 2012-05-17 11:58:47 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
- The option to make wardecs mutual seems to have disappeared... or hidden very meticulously. It's still not clear of this can only be done during the 24-hour warm-up or at any point. Need some clarification here, CCP!

- The tooltip for the corporation icons in the war list show 'offender' and 'defender'. It obviously should be 'attacker' and 'defender'. The opposite of 'offender' would be 'victim', but there is no crime, so no 'offender' either.

bornaa wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
Not to mention it will make Tracking Disruptors into 'one mod to counter them all' which is a HORRIBLE idea.


And it will have more affect against missiles then against turrets... Ugh

Typical situation where a ton of players argument it's a bad idea, but CCP (or rather some foolhardy devs) goes ahead and do it anyway. Missiles don't need a counter at the moment, but if they would, it'd have to be a separate module.



If you are going to apply more counter measures to missiles (make that turret counter measures affect missiles) you need to boost missile dmg and speed by at least 25%.
Missiles have too much draw backs as they are now and need buff and not nerfs. And if you want to make this you need to buff it even more.

CCP is making missiles completely obsolete.
And CCP is making EVE completely bland - everything will be the same.

Maybe thats on purpose... making missiles obsolete... perhaps by nerfing them they want to minimize their usage because they affect server performance. Ugh

And defender missiles are getting buff too i see... Roll

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#457 - 2012-05-18 09:08:32 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:
If Tracking disruptors are going to increase opponents missile explosion radius...


Will tracking enhancers and tracking computers reduce missile explosion radius as a counter?


Havent used missiles in real pvp* in aaaages but when something is this true one has to QFT...

*other than perhaps xhoring mails with HMLs on a cloaky tangu scout"
GeeBee
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#458 - 2012-05-18 17:33:36 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:
If Tracking disruptors are going to increase opponents missile explosion radius...


Will tracking enhancers and tracking computers reduce missile explosion radius as a counter?


+ 1
Plekto
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#459 - 2012-05-18 18:04:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Plekto
We already HAVE a method to counter missiles in the game. It just needs to be implemented properly.

It's defender missiles. The problem is that you have to manually target the incoming missile(s), every time, which is horrendous. If they automatically targeted any and all incoming missiles, then the solution would be to fit a few on a ship in your empty high slots to mitigate the damage.

Since most people group damage, you can SORT OF get away with targeting the group, but all it takes is the guy to do the old school finger across the keys trick and you have a chain of 6 or 8 missiles incoming and no way to physically click and target fast enough. Defender missiles are so useless in the game that I've never heard of anyone ever using them in PVP. Even newbies figure out that they are broken in minutes.

The "rats" do this automatically. This needs to be fixed. Then we'll not need a "nerf" by CCP. Then, if you don't like missiles, fit a defender or two in a small launcher.

EDIT - missiles do have their place, though. Stealth Bombers are great. T2 torps are incredibly useful, as are precision cruises (which will maul an AF or HAC faster than it knew what hit it). But missiles fell out of favor since the nerf years ago made them require almost a year of training to use as well as you can do with blasters or lasers in a few months. For the new players who don't remember back then, missiles are fantastic if and only if you have max skills and sub-skills. For the 5% or EVE that has all ten or so skills trained to level 5, plus BS 5, it's like max skill rail guns are - simply epic. If your skills are at level 3 or 4 in those skills, well, just use beams or rails or whatever. The falloff is harsh.

Making a module nerf them further is just simply insane. This smacks of the old-school Nos idiocy (which thank god they finally fixed). One modue to cripple the enemy ship. Now we'll have one module to nerf all enemy guns.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#460 - 2012-05-18 23:57:13 UTC
Are any of the newly rebalance models modules even ready to go live? cap batteries, tracking disruptors an approve hardeners look to be on a pretty poor state imo.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction