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New dev blog: Unified inventory

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Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#581 - 2012-05-15 16:57:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger's Spirit
CCP Arrow wrote:
What I said was, it's not that we don't believe you ...[/b]


If belive him, he or we, why cant testing yours new changed inventory system ?
I will say why not, because you CCP guys anyway want to starting this semi-finished inventory at May 22.
But this inventory is current state is an alpha developed thing , what will imply many other fail and bugs too and impossible to fix it within one week.

So, Shandir told the truth "ccp pushing out half finished stuff with reduced functionality? again?"

Remember to Greed is good thing, what i said before. CCP told to us; "we will be listen to our playerbase and we never want to do this mistake again."
But you guys not listen again to playerbase and you do not want to allow it to test them. LOL
Shandir
EVE University
Ivy League
#582 - 2012-05-15 17:13:20 UTC
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
CCP Arrow wrote:
What I said was, it's not that we don't believe you ...[/b]


If belive you, he or we, why cant testing yours new changed inventory system ?
I will say why not, because you CCP guys anyway want to starting this semi-finished inventory at May 22.
But this inventory is current state is an alpha developed thing , what will imply many other fail and bugs too and impossible to fix it within one week.

So, Shandir told the truth "ccp pushing out half finished stuff with reduced functionality? again?"

Remember to Greed is good thing, what i said before. CCP told to us; "we will be listen to our playerbase and we never want to do this mistake again."
But you guys not listen again to playerbase and you do not want to allow it to test them. LOL

I'd like to take a lot of credit for that quote. Cool

But I didn't actually say it. I merely agree with it.
Kurai Okala
Okala Corp
#583 - 2012-05-15 17:25:36 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Hey folks.

I just wanted to restate what we said in the Dev blog for the Unified Inventory that we wanted to get feedback from those that use SiSi in order to address problems that would occur. We intended on following heavily up on the feedback, doing as much as possible before launch as well as doing even further iterations and fixes in the upcoming release. Team Game of Drones is committed to a new methodology of using the principals of User Centered Design, where the User Experience of our players drives our design decisions.

Not only did we collect all feedback from the Forums, personal posts, Twitter comments and other sources but we took the issues many of you like Grey Stormshadow, Tippia and other have been pointing out and created a User Testing plan which we facilitated last week. In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found.

Once we had collected all the date from the tests we created stories and design updates which have either already been submitted to the next SiSi build, or we are actively working on or have been put into our backlog of work stories which we will address as priority stories before we start working on other features for next release.

I'm sorry if people that have given us feedback have felt we didn't listen in the past few days, I hope this post has re-instated that we actually listen and act accordingly and have simply been doing nothing else since the release of our blog. In the future, when we go through the feedback and create User Testing plans, we will make sure we reply to all the different discussion threads on the forums where we read the feedback, so that you all know that the feedback has been read, noted and addressed.

Thank you all for the feedback, you help us make better features and a special thanks to those that have gone above and beyond by bringing us very detailed and accurate constructive feedback, it does make a world of a difference for us.


Just wanted to say thank you for responding to feedback and I think it's very impressive you've already got improvements in the pipline for Sisi. Thank you also to whoever made the decision to allocate so much time to following-up on feedback. Keep up the good work!
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#584 - 2012-05-15 17:28:50 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Hey folks.

Thank you all for the feedback, you help us make better features and a special thanks to those that have gone above and beyond by bringing us very detailed and accurate constructive feedback, it does make a world of a difference for us.


Great to have you with us.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Aghira
Systech Astromantics Shipyard Inc.
#585 - 2012-05-15 21:49:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Aghira
Looked at the actual build on sisi for a few minutes.

The inventory window now closes if you undock, and it reopens when you dock and the size and position of the windows will now be stored.
Thats a good thing to start with, but these windows should save their state, too. If i have 2 windows open and undock both windows should reopen after docking, not only the 'parent' window.

Looting:
If you have your cargo hold open and try to loot something it uses the existing window, showing the inventory of the can/wreck instead of your cargo hold. If you hit 'loot all' the items will be transfered to your cargo and the window itself changes to show your cargo like it was before.
If you want the can/wreck to be displayed in a seperate window you have to shift-click. I would prefer the shift-click opens in the same window and normal click in a new window.
However, if you don't have your cargo open when you try to loot something the window doesn't close after looting. It stays open and shows your cargo hold. It should close after looting if there was no inventory window before.


PS: english' not my native, so apologies for any misspelling, but i hope you get what i wanted to say.

Edit: If you have the station hangar open, undock, close the window with your cargo and redock, the station hangar window will be closed too. BAD!

Es wird niemals so viel gelogen wie vor der Wahl, während des Krieges und nach der Jagd. (Otto von Bismarck)

english is not my native language.
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#586 - 2012-05-15 21:59:03 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Thank you all for the feedback, you help us make better features and a special thanks to those that have gone above and beyond by bringing us very detailed and accurate constructive feedback, it does make a world of a difference for us.


Appreciate the hard work and ofc, thank you for listening to the players endless rants.

Hopefully, the continuation of the UI improvements will include overview and all other core panels/windows, they are the heart of spaceships piloting and in my honest opinion, and with no disrespect towards the devs, they sucks.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#587 - 2012-05-15 22:02:29 UTC
Aghira wrote:

If you want the can/wreck to be displayed in a seperate window you have to shift-click. I would prefer the shift-click opens in the same window and normal click in a new window.

Mixing button behaviours would be generally bad thing. Shift+double click or holding shift while opening something is generally sign that you want something open to new window. As it works elsewhere like that, it shouldn't be different in other place (if there is optionality available for such selection in first place).

In this case where you talk about wrecks/cans, you would need to ask for esc menu option where you could set default behaviour. Not any change for the button behaviour.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Dennie Fleetfoot
DUST University
#588 - 2012-05-15 23:55:00 UTC
Just tried the latest version on Sisi and its still not fit for purpose with little improvement since it's stillbirth.

Windows are STILL not remembering states, positions, open, closed etc after docking and jumping.

I STILL can't open just the cargo hold of my current ship without the whole inventory window opening up first for me to shift click it into a separate window or using right click.

I have no doubt that you guys are listening to the feedback we're giving and acting upon it.

But after a week of smarter people than me telling or showing via pic's and video's what's wrong and how to fix it with marginal progress in doing so, I do have doubt's about your ability to sort it out in seven days.

I'm sorry, I've totally lost faith in this whole ill conceived adventure in customer annoyance and genuinely think it's been a complete waste of development time. It should never even got as far as your internal builds, never mind Sisi. I can't think of a single positive for any of it and now feel nothing but complete apathy towards it.

Harsh I know, but its how I feel. I'll deal with it when it arrives, try and make it work for me despite it's many, many failings and hope that someone come to their senses about it.

CEO Dust University

CPM 1&2 Member

www.twitter.com/DennieFleetfoot
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#589 - 2012-05-16 00:16:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Hobb
Just took the new inventory for a test drive (haven't had time until now), here are my personal gripes:

Windows don't behave consistently between docking/undocking, forgetting their positions and whether they were separate or combined, and whether the Index sidebar was open/closed.

I shouldn't have to shift-click my items and ships every time I dock up. The window positions and settings are remembered, thankfully.

When I loot something the wreck opens in my cargo window, which means I can't drag to it, or it needs to be a much larger window so I can see the tree view which reduces my view of the awesome scenery. Why do we even have scenery?

In short, what Tippia said. This inventory system is pretty nice but it needs some serious work before it's ready for prime time.

Also, can you undo the width restriction on local? I just want to see who's there, not what they're shitting it up with. Thanks.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Maul555
Xen Investments
#590 - 2012-05-16 02:37:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Maul555
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:


This is good to hear, as I was starting to wonder if it was going to become an annual ritual of CCP to shoot itself in the head with it's Hubris of not listening to player feedback and killing it's subscriber base with it's summer release.

I cannot help but think CCP has not yet fully recovered from last summers Incarna debacle, simply because what was once the pitchline of CCP was it's constantly increasing subscriber base, then when those numbers went in the toilet ,we were no longer able to access and track the number of logins and subscribers.If those numbers are available once again i'd love to know.

I DO pay my monthly subscription fee, so I do want the game to succeed, but I can say that I have played a lot less in the last year and many people I know have played a lot less, have taken a long Hiatus ,and some are only coming back now, people I haven't seen online since last summer. I would hate to see peopele get that bad taste in their mouth once again and either unsub, or just be subbed and never logon till the point somewhere down the road they feel they no longer want to pay 15 dollars a month for the privelege of skill training in a game they stopped playing months earlier.

I like the game, to an extent I like the people, but , to be honest, as an older player, I dont share the appreciation of the value of " tears" which seems to be such a motivating factor for so many younger players, and I also dont feel like constantly relearning a game i spent time to become proficient at.

CCP seeks to keep its game pertinent and fresh by changing elements of it so it doesn't become stagnant. This I understand and condone.What I don't want to do is relearn the game every 12 months and its interface. In short I want a game , not a chore.The new interface makes the game a chore again, and takes away much of what has been a comfort zone for longtime players.CCP has a succesful game, Dunno what makes them think they can constantly reinvent it and every time they it will be a hit. That's not the case as Incarna taught us. Whoever at CCP is spreading the Gospel of reinventing the game needs to be brought under check, as this person has too much influence on game design. Improve it, dont reinvent it. Certain CCP personell may enjoy using the player base as labrats in social experiments, " hey lets mess crap up and see how they react, that will freshen the game up",and while that may be amusing to a certain type of person to have control over others, its not the experience I am looking for when logging on to play a game I have played for years. Its should be obvious that if people are playing for YEARS, that familiarity and comfort are a key draw to them.Changing fundamental interface mechanics changes the entire player experience, and is a gamble itself as far as maintaining player loyalty and playerbase.

Changes, tweaks, Progress, content. This is what we want.This constant attempt at the reinvention of the wheel is eventually going to be opposed by a loyal core of people who are simple tooled and machined for the old " wheel" and just don't want or need a new one, and if forced may simply move on to something different entirely.

This massive Enraging of the player base once a year by what is perceived to be CCP Hubris will be it's undoing if it continues.Older players in particular will not keep returning in good faith,if they see the writing on the wall, and older players in particular are not inclined to suffer fools gladly.



Holy Hell... I cant quote this a million times, so I will do it just once. But as a 9+ year old player, these are basically my exact thoughts.

And for the record, I am a big supporter of Incarna. don't forget Devs, the only thing that killed Incarna was lost functionality, and not allowing the old and new to live side by side...

PS: Is anyone working on Walking In Stations over there? I still really really want that.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#591 - 2012-05-16 04:32:40 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
...and what kind of version are we expecting to see in tranq next week or will this project be delayed?


Going on Tranq next week!


ccp pushing out half finished stuff with reduced functionality?

again?


Smoking Blunts being overly dramatic?

Again?

I think this remark is arrogant uncalled for.


Hey man, give him some slack. I like interacting with HUMAN reps, not some mindless drones that follow QA protocols with fake smiles. It's one of the reasons I respect and have faith in CCP, they're human and like any humans they sometimes make mistakes. What sets them apart is that they have the balls to acknowledge their mistakes and fix them. Thank you Arrow for all your feedback, we can imagine how busy you guys are with the release only a week away.

Anyway, from what I gather from responses so far is that this will not be optional. It will replace all our current item/hangar views. It could have been one of the best tools that would have been praised by 99% of the playerbase; instead it will become a much hated and frustrating feature that I can't imagine ANYONE (even the dev's who build it) to find a good replacement for the day to day tasks of playing EVE online.

To be honest, I'm tired of fighting this. I was fighting Incarna, I was fighting senseless changes to fleet window before that, and now I'm fighting this. I guess I care about EVE and unlike other games where when they mess something up I just grow apathetic to that game and stop bothering. But I'm tired of fighting it, reading pages upon pages of threads, etc. It SHOULD NOT be this difficult. I guess we'll just wait and see what comes out on TQ, if they make it usable or an addition to current windows, GREAT. If not..... I don't know anymore.

Where is the CSM in all this? Aren't they supposed to be doing the fighting for us? Don't they have a voice in all this? Unless I missed one I didn't see a single post from them.

Sad

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#592 - 2012-05-16 07:20:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Smoking Blunts
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:


Should be getting Sisi updates before Tranq!


cool i will be paying attention for them and as long as they address the issues i and others are havng with it, it will be a win for ccp customer comunication and that is something that can not be sniffed at.


new morning, new sisi patch. nothing has changed

ISSUE 1.
after testing the new build on sisi. the windows do remember where and what size the last window you closed. but they dont remember that you stacked corp windows in 1 place and in 1 size and that you stacked items and ships in another place and size and wrecks in a different place and size etc etc.
the problem seams to be, the old system labled the windows and knew each one was different, the new system just thinks all windows are the same regardless of what you do with them. it also lables them all inventory:name of window. where it just needs the name of window.

ISSUE 2
the ship window needs to show all ship regardless of state, active, assembled or packaged, there ships it makes no sence for any of them not to be in the ship hanger.

ISSUE 3
add the fact that everytime you session change they all forget they were open and where they were open(see above) and anoyance levels increase.

ISSUE 4
right click open cargo/bay/fuelbay etc etc should be there and should open the window as it always did. i want stuff easy to find not hidden deep within the tree. this should be there in all the places it used to be, pos's, fleet memebrs corp hangers etc etc.

there are more issue, but these 4 are high on my ******* anoying list.

Mr CCP Soundwave, when are these issue going to be addressed? i ask as you now have 5 days to fix them, get them on sisi and then get them into a tq build, or like i pointed out, you are rolling out a feature that reduces functionality, again.

OMG when can i get a pic here
Maraner
The Executioners
#593 - 2012-05-16 07:30:15 UTC
Please dont put this in the game, at the moment only a very small number of people have actually tried to use this, when it's launched on TQ there is going to be rage.

CCP please, think for a while on this, not one dev comment has even indicated that there is a possiblity that this wont be in the expansion. Make it optional. Dont force this on the player base, of all the UI stuff that needed attention, I can't say this leapt to mind. It just sucks, please please dont do this.
Diziet Thomas
7-2 Ronin
#594 - 2012-05-16 07:36:18 UTC
I will keep this short i have used the new inventory thing on sisi and my impression is that it sucks. Hate it as a matter of fact. Opening inventory so that you can move items should be easy why anyone wanted to make it harder to achieve i have no idea.

moving items from one ship to another or god forbid a container in a ship to the cargo of the ship is just a awkard time consuming task that requires way more buttin clicking and frustration then it should.
Jon Laugan
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#595 - 2012-05-16 08:23:37 UTC
Time for a poll?
Blue Harrier
#596 - 2012-05-16 09:36:55 UTC
Last night (UK time), I was playing Skyrim and had a sudden thought, are we being used as labrats to test this new UI because it is designed for use with a consoles joypad?

Think about it a bit, this design of UI would work excellently with a joypad and is in a way something like the tree view, container driven menu system that many console games have. So are we in fact testing the UI interface that will be used in Dust?

Is this the ‘unifying’ interface on both Eve the game and Dust so both players will see a similar UI and that eventually Eve the game might be able to run on the next generation consoles?

BTW I still don’t like it and I’m finding it a heck of a Kludge just to do some of the simple things I used to do but come next week I suppose it’s the usual ‘Adapt or Leave’ attitude from everyone.

Ah well popcorn and a stiff drink ready LOL

"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
Una Thea
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#597 - 2012-05-16 10:43:52 UTC
I finally had the chance to log onto SiSi and see the new things. Mostly everything amazing and what not, but the inventory system is something that needs one or two changes.

I'm not even sure what has to be done with it to be honest - but somehow my 'work-flow' in it isn't as fast as the old one. That impacts my ability to go quickly back out in space if I lose a ship in a fight etc.

And no offence, it doesn't really look bad and the idea is good - but once I undock and I want to check keep my ships cargo open for a quick booster consume or something like that, the inventory just doesn't cut it. It somehow feels bigger and more in my way than before.


Best regards,
Una Thea.
SmartKunt
Fish Curtains
#598 - 2012-05-16 10:44:45 UTC  |  Edited by: SmartKunt
My vote: Don't do it honey.

With 142 ships in ma hangar its a nightmare eye teel ye yar,
I like to take nice back door on my ships but this is just too hard. Cool

I love you man. Especially if you like nice moustache yar... and ma quiff.
Look here lady, please spread love and don't do this to me if you please.
My nancy reputation will be in tatters x
Captain Skarlet
Elemental Exploration
Quantum Decadence
#599 - 2012-05-16 11:04:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Skarlet
I do not like the Ship Inventory window..!!! Cry

The Ship Inventory window in the station is one thing, though for it to still be present once un-docked is just a joke. Evil

To be honest I agree with a post from XLoneStarX the old system is better in accessibility and useability, this new set-up is cumbersome, awkward to use and seams to resemble the way you would access a file with in a computer directory..!!

If you are going to implement this then at least resort back to the old cargo bay when we've un-docked, keeping the window settings for in station and in space separate..!!


Actually to be brutally honest DON'T implement it at all.. Arrow Basically don't fix what isn't broken, the old set-up worked perfectly..!!!
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#600 - 2012-05-16 11:27:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger's Spirit
Captain Skarlet wrote:
I do not like the Ship Inventory window..!!! Cry

The Ship Inventory window in the station is one thing, though for it to still be present once un-docked is just a joke. Evil

To be honest I agree with a post from XLoneStarX the old system is better in accessibility and useability, this new set-up is cumbersome, awkward to use and seams to resemble the way you would access a file with in a computer directory..!!

If you are going to implement this then at least resort back to the old cargo bay when we've un-docked, keeping the window settings for in station and in space separate..!!


Actually to be brutally honest DON'T implement it at all.. Arrow Basically don't fix what isn't broken, the old set-up worked perfectly..!!!


Just read what i wrote early;

"Was easy in old panel when anyone want to use a ship he just open hangar and he saw there 3 ship and easily picked up a ship. Now when someone open his inventory his ships merged with drones/ammo/craps/junks/etc

If you need use filters need +3 clicks, and when docked back and want to search drones or another items use another filters or turning off the filters again (+clicks for filters) or looking below at the 12272345634 submenus or typing to searcbox.

Looting from wrecks or transfer items to containers is horrible with new itemwindow too. The smart pilots wont use this new windows ,just using drag and drop to the cargo icon on GUI. Why ? Because when he open a container with new system and he clicking and change a submenu at the left side panel, the previous itemwindow is dissapearing and need searching again a submenu, or you need another + Shift-click (but this is same such the old inventory system worked before) for open another window and you will repeating this sequence over and over. So, Why using the left side treefilepanel when that's it unuseable.

The old solution was much easier and which is important for an inventory, was much clearer.

The old system was fine. CCP changing again that which is not broken and they want to change to wrong way again.Just as i said, this is same thing, when someone want to changing back his Total Commander to Windows Explorer type filepanel. They like when a player use 130 mouse clicks for reach something ? If i remember they said after Greed is Good thingy, they will be listen to smart playerbase and they wont do other mistakes. But we saw at hybrid changes they dont listen to playerbase.

They why not fixing the broken things ? Just a question, the LP store is fine when you want to buy, not just one item from same type ?
Just try to buy 140 skillbooks and you need 280 mouse clicks. Oh yeah that's broken and not fixed at least 6 years ago, and they cant make a counter for easy buying multiple items, they fixing the fine inventory system. LOL

This is same thing when they changed to CTRL+Double Click function on overview which was TargetEnemy+Align towards him.
Was easy and clear solution in one phase. But what happened ? They changed to Ctrl+Click for Targeting +Release Control Button + Double click for align to enemy. They made a plus phase (and plus one mouseclick) for aligning towards enemy which is much worsen than older solution which was a simple but best solution.

Many times the plain things more effective than the complicated ones.
This changes is same thing."