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CCP employees must be removed from the game.

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Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#361 - 2012-05-09 20:31:12 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:

I certainly wouldn't make an accusatory thread based on those "gut" feelings in a place of record either, ...


There used to be all kinds of griping and slander around here about devs in BoB that was nothing but gut feeling until one day, tada!

That may even be why there's an internal affairs thingy now. Hard to say.

That said, it's kinda weird when players get upset that they're not trusted in a game that takes pride in trust being the most rare and precious commodity. A game where some of the best and most famous stories involve deep betrayals and conspiracies stretching over years. Where that kind of betrayal is both expected and celebrated.

I mean, do you expect rational responses here? Really?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#362 - 2012-05-09 20:37:19 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:

I certainly wouldn't make an accusatory thread based on those "gut" feelings in a place of record either, ...

There used to be all kinds of griping and slander around here about devs in BoB that was nothing but gut feeling until one day, tada!

Evidence. Tada!

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#363 - 2012-05-09 20:37:19 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:

I certainly wouldn't make an accusatory thread based on those "gut" feelings in a place of record either, ...


There used to be all kinds of griping and slander around here about devs in BoB that was nothing but gut feeling until one day, tada!

That may even be why there's an internal affairs thingy now. Hard to say.

That said, it's kinda weird when players get upset that they're not trusted in a game that takes pride in trust being the most rare and precious commodity. A game where some of the best and most famous stories involve deep betrayals and conspiracies stretching over years. Where that kind of betrayal is both expected and celebrated.

I mean, do you expect rational responses here? Really?


We're talking about accusing developers in their real-life careers, not players in a game. Try to keep up.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#364 - 2012-05-09 20:57:34 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:

I certainly wouldn't make an accusatory thread based on those "gut" feelings in a place of record either, ...


There used to be all kinds of griping and slander around here about devs in BoB that was nothing but gut feeling until one day, tada!

That may even be why there's an internal affairs thingy now. Hard to say.

That said, it's kinda weird when players get upset that they're not trusted in a game that takes pride in trust being the most rare and precious commodity. A game where some of the best and most famous stories involve deep betrayals and conspiracies stretching over years. Where that kind of betrayal is both expected and celebrated.

I mean, do you expect rational responses here? Really?


We're talking about accusing developers in their real-life careers, not players in a game. Try to keep up.


Oh, I thought the devs in question were playing.

If on the other hand you're going to argue that people only act rationally, I laugh long and loud directly in your face.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#365 - 2012-05-09 20:59:18 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:

I certainly wouldn't make an accusatory thread based on those "gut" feelings in a place of record either, ...

There used to be all kinds of griping and slander around here about devs in BoB that was nothing but gut feeling until one day, tada!

Evidence. Tada!


Yep, and then it stopped being that horrible, horrible baseless whining. Evidence is all that counts.

Expecting that is is also all that people will react to is stupid.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#366 - 2012-05-09 21:00:20 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:

I certainly wouldn't make an accusatory thread based on those "gut" feelings in a place of record either, ...


There used to be all kinds of griping and slander around here about devs in BoB that was nothing but gut feeling until one day, tada!

That may even be why there's an internal affairs thingy now. Hard to say.

That said, it's kinda weird when players get upset that they're not trusted in a game that takes pride in trust being the most rare and precious commodity. A game where some of the best and most famous stories involve deep betrayals and conspiracies stretching over years. Where that kind of betrayal is both expected and celebrated.

I mean, do you expect rational responses here? Really?



Except it wasn't just gut feeling, it was evidence.

Although there were plenty of accusations that weren't based on any evidence and were never proven later either, so I guess that proves black helicopters new world order chemtrails in Jita whargle garble

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#367 - 2012-05-09 21:02:13 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Oh, I thought the devs in question were playing.


No, you were responding directly to a quote about accusing devs of misconduct without any evidence

Malphilos wrote:
If on the other hand you're going to argue that people only act rationally, I laugh long and loud directly in your face.


I am not trying to argue anything of the sort, nor is there any reasonable way you could draw such a conclusion from what you quoted.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#368 - 2012-05-09 21:04:41 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:

I certainly wouldn't make an accusatory thread based on those "gut" feelings in a place of record either, ...


There used to be all kinds of griping and slander around here about devs in BoB that was nothing but gut feeling until one day, tada!

That may even be why there's an internal affairs thingy now. Hard to say.

That said, it's kinda weird when players get upset that they're not trusted in a game that takes pride in trust being the most rare and precious commodity. A game where some of the best and most famous stories involve deep betrayals and conspiracies stretching over years. Where that kind of betrayal is both expected and celebrated.

I mean, do you expect rational responses here? Really?



Except it wasn't just gut feeling, it was evidence.

Although there were plenty of accusations that weren't based on any evidence and were never proven later either, so I guess that proves black helicopters new world order chemtrails in Jita whargle garble


Naw, there was plenty of loud griping without evidence about BoB and their dev pets. Expressing shock and horror that the same thing continues now seems silly.

Proves nothing except that the shoe, once placed on the other foot, seems a bit uncomfortable.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#369 - 2012-05-09 21:07:29 UTC
Yes, stop playing EVE, CCP. That way people can go back to pissing and moaning about how you don't even play your own game.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#370 - 2012-05-09 21:09:44 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
Oh, I thought the devs in question were playing.


No, you were responding directly to a quote about accusing devs of misconduct without any evidence


Devs who are also players. And I said it was not unprecedented, nor should it be unexpected. The fact that they're "real people" doesn't make any difference.

Malphilos wrote:
If on the other hand you're going to argue that people only act rationally, I laugh long and loud directly in your face.


Elise DarkStar wrote:

I am not trying to argue anything of the sort,....


Well good. What exactly is your problem then? That there isn't any evidence or that people shouldn't make accusations without evidence? That is to say that they should act rationally... no, that can't be it. You just said it wasn't.
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#371 - 2012-05-09 21:14:43 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Devs who are also players. And I said it was not unprecedented, nor should it be unexpected. The fact that they're "real people" doesn't make any difference.


I suppose it's your prerogative to not distinguish between the relevance of the actions of players in a game compared to professionals in their careers. It makes you seem obtuse and idiotic, but your call.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#372 - 2012-05-09 21:40:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Malphilos
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
Devs who are also players. And I said it was not unprecedented, nor should it be unexpected. The fact that they're "real people" doesn't make any difference.


I suppose it's your prerogative to not distinguish between the relevance of the actions of players in a game compared to professionals in their careers. It makes you seem obtuse and idiotic, but your call.



Not that I'll pretend to understand what you mean by " the relevance of the actions", but it's clear there is no overlap between players and employees. The gulf is so great that professional misconduct in any game, particularly this one, is impossible and could never happen. Moreover, and especially because of this fact, it is unthinkable and unprecedented that such a thing should even be suggested.

Really, stick to "no evidence". That argument has the admirable quality of being true. Your appeal to ethics as an absolute flies in the face of human history.
Vxrasa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#373 - 2012-05-09 21:40:36 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:

I certainly wouldn't make an accusatory thread based on those "gut" feelings in a place of record either, ...


There used to be all kinds of griping and slander around here about devs in BoB that was nothing but gut feeling until one day, tada!

That may even be why there's an internal affairs thingy now. Hard to say.

That said, it's kinda weird when players get upset that they're not trusted in a game that takes pride in trust being the most rare and precious commodity. A game where some of the best and most famous stories involve deep betrayals and conspiracies stretching over years. Where that kind of betrayal is both expected and celebrated.

I mean, do you expect rational responses here? Really?



Except it wasn't just gut feeling, it was evidence.

Although there were plenty of accusations that weren't based on any evidence and were never proven later either, so I guess that proves black helicopters new world order chemtrails in Jita whargle garble


I thought this was a quality post by a quality poster, but then I saw that you quoted yourself in your signature, and all sense of quality posting vanished from my mind. In it's place was left an ugly void of fear, hopelessness and loathing.
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#374 - 2012-05-09 21:44:29 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Not that I'll pretend to understand what you mean by " the relevance of the actions", but it's clear there is no overlap between players and employees. The gulf is so great that professional misconduct in any game, particularly this one, is impossible and could never happen. Moreover, and especially because of this fact, it is unthinkable and unprecedented that such a thing should even be suggested.

Really, stick to "no evidence". That argument has the admirable quality of being true. Your appeal to ethics as an absolute flies in the face of human history.


Knocking down strawmen. I'm very impressed that you can defeat your own invented and ridiculously extreme arguments that you have falsely attributed to me. The sign of a powerful mind at work.
Andrey Wartooth
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#375 - 2012-05-09 21:49:37 UTC
This whole thread, and the other one about Soundwave, are both stupid and really, really need to be locked.
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#376 - 2012-05-09 22:05:05 UTC
Read Op. Read pages 1-4, laughed at how quickly thread was derailed to be about one group of players decided to post my views without reading any more hopla. If this idea/concept has already been placed in this thread please forgive me.

I believe that every major alliance should have a CCP "spy". This "spy" would be a CCP employee who would contact the CEO of the alliance and then be accepted as a bottom line member. The Alliance CEO would be subject to an NDA with breach of the NDA resulting in the Alliance being disbanded.

This would grant CCP:
Eyes and ears on what game play is really like.
The ability to see game bugs and exploits earlier than is currently possible.
Make live increasingly difficult for any alliance member who has ties with other CCP employees, (eg CSM members, CCP employees, etc etc) to influence the game purely for the benefit of their own alliance.
Andrey Wartooth
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#377 - 2012-05-09 22:13:49 UTC
ModeratedToSilence wrote:
Read Op. Read pages 1-4, laughed at how quickly thread was derailed to be about one group of players decided to post my views without reading any more hopla. If this idea/concept has already been placed in this thread please forgive me.

I believe that every major alliance should have a CCP "spy". This "spy" would be a CCP employee who would contact the CEO of the alliance and then be accepted as a bottom line member. The Alliance CEO would be subject to an NDA with breach of the NDA resulting in the Alliance being disbanded.

This would grant CCP:
Eyes and ears on what game play is really like.
The ability to see game bugs and exploits earlier than is currently possible.
Make live increasingly difficult for any alliance member who has ties with other CCP employees, (eg CSM members, CCP employees, etc etc) to influence the game purely for the benefit of their own alliance.



They already have this. It's called Internal Affairs and watches over the accounts of all CCP Employees.
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#378 - 2012-05-09 22:29:19 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:

To play real guy in the real world here I typically don't formulate any kind of a conclusion unless there's some evidence that this conclusion actually exists. I certainly wouldn't toss about disparaging claims (some might say slanderous) about individual's honesty or ability to perform their job based on what my "gut" told me about someone I'd never met and knew only as a vague figure over the internet.

I certainly wouldn't make an accusatory thread based on those "gut" feelings in a place of record either, but hey we all march to the beat of our own drums I suppose.

:edit: Go to your local police station and tell them your gut's telling you something fishy's going on with the local government. Make a really angry post on the internet about how they're part of the grand conspiracy when they explain to you that they can't help you because you've given them nothing to go on.

<3 for Sreegs
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#379 - 2012-05-10 00:17:07 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:

I certainly wouldn't make an accusatory thread based on those "gut" feelings in a place of record either, ...


There used to be all kinds of griping and slander around here about devs in BoB that was nothing but gut feeling until one day, tada!

That may even be why there's an internal affairs thingy now. Hard to say.

That said, it's kinda weird when players get upset that they're not trusted in a game that takes pride in trust being the most rare and precious commodity. A game where some of the best and most famous stories involve deep betrayals and conspiracies stretching over years. Where that kind of betrayal is both expected and celebrated.

I mean, do you expect rational responses here? Really?


Goonswarm fought hard to ensure that the evidence about BoB was not ignored and did more to get IA established than anybody (except maybe he who should not be named).

And no, I don't expect rational responses from you, but I figure if I rebutt your brain vomit for long enough you'll stop posting.
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#380 - 2012-05-10 00:22:53 UTC
Malphilos wrote:

Proves nothing except that the shoe, once placed on the other foot, seems a bit uncomfortable.


You seem to think that you are attacking GSF here, but you're attacking CCP.

The only reason I'm posting at all is that I'm coming out to bat for 'the new CCP' that has tried hard to redeem themselves since the failure that was Incarna. If you think that this thread is making 'GSF' feel uncomfortable, then you're ignoring all the much worse things we've been called over the years.