EVE General Discussion

TL;DR

People say gankers are horrible people with no life. In response, I call all hisec miners bots, or if they aren't bots, they want to be anyway. Also, they are intrinsically evil. They are heartless, cold beings with one goal in mind - to make ISK the easiest way possible.

In order to rid the earth of this scourge, all hisec miners, bot or not, should be scoured from the belts.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Although I have been cannon fodder enough times to know how much I despise ganking, (while minding my own damn business, trying to build my own corp, in areas of space that are "supposed" to be relatively safe- then losing it all) I actually disagree with the anti-ganking mindset- to a point.

When we 'mine', we have to accept that as soon as we undock; there are, will be, and should be certain risks involved and this includes players who choose to play the game differently (ganking, con artists, pvp, etc. It is this diversity in game play that makes EVE fun, dangerous, and therefore realistic. Do I like losing my mining ships, ore, equipment, etc? No I don't. but it's part of the game- a game that prides itself on realism.

Realism is the key word here. Solo mining should be more dangerous than mining in a fleet, and a mining fleet should include a security force and support vessels piloted by people who are paying attention to the game!! If you AFK mine or guard, you definitely lose and it's your own fault. And when your not AFK, sometimes you win, lose, or break even. Mining ships should be running tanks because pirate forces can and should randomly appear from nowhere (human or computer generated). Asteroids should be a true collide-able objects that can cause damage by collision or even by random explosions while mining them( only one ore type does this?), or theoretical scientific phenomena and/or gravitational forces because it keeps people glued to their seats, and prevents botting. Asteroid belts, (regardless of sec. status) are, not friendly places to be, both in theory and in real life. For the time being, ganking as a main source of danger in the belts, (and only real danger in high sec belts) is serving that purpose.

CCP should add in-game features (such as those I've mentioned above) to make mining more difficult and to add a greater sense of realism- botting problem solved. Then when this has been done, we can see if the author and his cronies hold true to their word that they do this to help eliminate botting (and etc.) or if this is simply a matter of market manipulation and/or harassment or even a gray area that CCP uses to increase the sales of PLEX as miners have to replace their ships and equipment after these mass ganks. (Speculation and arguments on why people really gank and are allowed to gank, solved)

But then again if CCP won't do more to end ganking or it's root causes, why isn't anyone else out there taking the initiative to find ways to "creatively" deal with the problem? We as players (regardless of profession) are capable of making choices, are we not? If ganking is such a horrible and heinous act, then where are the people willing to fight back? Why arn't the mega corporations or alliances guarding the belts? Where is the several thousand member fleet flying into null sec bent on taking their oppressors down in whatever ways possible? I've never seen any of these things- (bad enough trying to get enough players to quickly deal with an incursion) and I don't see them happening now even as people cry over their losses. The bottom line is, that if you want something to end, 'you' end it. You simply don't hang around waiting for someone else to do it for you.

Note: you can't really blame newer players for trying to make a lot of ISK as fast as possible. Training books, implants, ships, and equipment are not cheap for the beginner, and in the grand scheme of things, mining isn't as risky as PVP or missions. But then again, (in my own eyes) I really don't see these career gankers harassing newer players, only those who have been on for a while 'herding or grazing' around the belts. And I therefore admit, that it was my own fault for my ship losses for becoming complacent in the belts- not that I ever AFK mined, just never tanked.

Note: some of miners out there are not the cold, heartless, evil, greedy people that you portray them to be. Some people out there simply choose to conduct their activities without the aid of a group; are actually more interested in building items with their ore than cashing it in for ISK- so that it benefits other players, and have genuinely 'noble intentions' not unlike myself. But those who infiltrated and ultimately destroyed my corp (and some very expensive mining ships and industrial ships) didn't really care what my intentions were. In my book, it is this in-discriminant killing and destruction of personal property (for ***** and giggles) that was the true evil there- not my willingness to help newer players get a foothold within the game.

Lastly: I give the author of the original post a lot of credit for pointing out that staying in high sec and not taking greater risks in-game is having a bad effect on the game. I can see it in myself as well as other players: I mine for a bit, mission for a bit, conduct my business for a bit, then get extremely bored because it's simply so damn repetitious. We as miners need to get out in low sec and null sec and PVP from time to time; explore, and even conduct mining ops, and etc. He's also right that there is a lot more trash and criminal activity in high sec, where as low and null sec are relatively quiet- minus the gate camps and career pirates of course.

Always amazes me how much time you waste on these things.

And no, not every miner is essentially a "bot." No more than any mission runner. Or any exploration person that presses the same keys and repeats the same functions over and over. Or anybody that uses the same PVP fitting on his rifter and uses the same attack process almost every time. Or incursion runners. And it doesn't matter whether you do these in high, low or null (you almost need to be as vigilant in well traveled high sec systems these days as a miner as you do in low or nullsec).

Eve, in and of itself, is a spreadsheet game, which makes it very prone to "botting" behavior from every player. This isn't a reflex-based shooter.

These "manifestos" always humor me to no end.

Welcome to the game! I just started as well (800k SP, still running Meta 0). But have had no problems getting ganked, I don't mine for money, I run security missions...I'm not sure what the payout comparison is between the two, but I rarely get bothered...if I do, it is because I am prowling lowsec and deserve it/expect it...lol...although I am always cautious of my surroundings, even in highsec...

You don't have to mine, and too be honest, with all the hate on miners right now, I wouldn't suggest it...although you may not have to worry, as they will be able to tell you are new based upon the ship you are flying, and it may not be worth the cost to them...

Either way, welcome fellow n00b, I wish you the best of luck, as long as your good fortune doesn't conflict with mine...

so basically miners make up reasons why gankers are bad and gankers make up reasons why miners are bad, ahhhh I see it now

Damn, I actually read the OP's whole manifesto and it was beautiful. Just...beautiful.

I also like coke.

Why people are killing highsec miners?

Simple. why not?

Some threads just need to curl up in the corner and quietly give up the ghost.....................

I don't mine. I hate mining. At least in missions I can have some input, but in mining I do nothing. But I respect miners for actually putting up with the sheer, mind-crushing boredom of it.

I wonder at times if they do it (kill miners) because there's really nothing better to do?

Nullsec gameplay is such a pain in the ass and non-casual. Lowsec...yeah. Wormholes...big commitment there to really do anything worthwhile.

Is this what "casual" PvP has evolved into?