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War Dec, Kill Reports and New Modules discussion

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Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#181 - 2012-05-03 15:34:36 UTC
Legion icon on the kill reports is huge compaired to the rest.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#182 - 2012-05-03 15:40:08 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Legion icon on the kill reports is huge compaired to the rest.


thanks:)

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#183 - 2012-05-03 15:48:13 UTC
Tsubutai wrote:
Are there diminishing returns on the increase or do you get the 'full' 15% from each resist that you're not being hit on? Specifically, if I were being hit exclusively with pure kinetic damage, what kinetic resist would the module confer?


The resist is calculated for the module itself, but when it's applied to the ship it goes through the normal channels. So, in the hypothetical scenario where you have no other resistance bonuses, then the max resist you could get from this module is 60% (the other three would then be at 0). But if you have other resistance bonuses, then your actual resist is calculated as usual.

Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#184 - 2012-05-03 15:50:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Caellach Marellus
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Tsubutai wrote:
Are there diminishing returns on the increase or do you get the 'full' 15% from each resist that you're not being hit on? Specifically, if I were being hit exclusively with pure kinetic damage, what kinetic resist would the module confer?


The resist is calculated for the module itself, but when it's applied to the ship it goes through the normal channels. So, in the hypothetical scenario where you have no other resistance bonuses, then the max resist you could get from this module is 60% (the other three would then be at 0). But if you have other resistance bonuses, then your actual resist is calculated as usual.



I hope there's plans for more than just T1 modules. Can we expect Meta/T2/Faction/Deadspace?

Edit: And is this module at all affected by Armour Compensation skills?

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Silly Slot
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
#185 - 2012-05-03 16:04:58 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Tsubutai wrote:
Are there diminishing returns on the increase or do you get the 'full' 15% from each resist that you're not being hit on? Specifically, if I were being hit exclusively with pure kinetic damage, what kinetic resist would the module confer?


The resist is calculated for the module itself, but when it's applied to the ship it goes through the normal channels. So, in the hypothetical scenario where you have no other resistance bonuses, then the max resist you could get from this module is 60% (the other three would then be at 0). But if you have other resistance bonuses, then your actual resist is calculated as usual.



I hope there's plans for more than just T1 modules. Can we expect Meta/T2/Faction/Deadspace?

Edit: And is this module at all affected by Armour Compensation skills?


^^^^^ This if your gonna drop new mods, drop them fully atleast t1 and t2
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#186 - 2012-05-03 16:28:41 UTC
We'd love to make a T2 version also before Inferno, we only have this one version now because we're still tweaking it, but once we're happy with it as a T1 version we should be able to do a T2 version also (no promise though Smile) But we're not making faction versions for Inferno (hopefully later).

As for the armor compensation skill, then the answer is no. This is for a technical reason of how passive and active resistances are calculated differently and to use it would require a constant recalculation which would override the adjustments made by this module.

We'll look into creating a new skill (or adjust an existing skill) to work with this module, but it might not make it in for Inferno. Btw, the skill requirement for the item Hull Upgrades Lvl 3.

Finally, we're in the process now of seeding the items on Sisi (a special seeding script has to be run to get things on Sisi), hopefully the items will be in tomorrow.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#187 - 2012-05-03 16:58:37 UTC
Are you adding BPOs for the new meta-zero module variants?

If not, what makes these meta-zero T1 items so special compared to the other few hundred meta-zero T1 items?

If they're only going to drop as BPCs, then they should be tagged as meta 1.
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
Together We Solo
#188 - 2012-05-03 16:59:29 UTC
Soon Shin wrote:
Goonswarm and Death have thousands of pod pilots, you're asking concord to allow aggression against thousands of pilots.

Of course its going to be expensive. You're paying for targets, lots of targets, lots of targets means lots of money.

Besides you can go to null space where you can shoot them for FREE.



This isn't Duck Hunt! In Eve war targets can shoot back. Small corps many times are taking a huge risk by war dec'n a larger entity. The larger corp has the advantage of numbers, and resources, they should not also get a price dec shield built into the game for them too.
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#189 - 2012-05-03 17:21:45 UTC
Can I take this opportunity to say that I love you, Punkturis? Thank you for these small fixes that make eve much more enjoyable.
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#190 - 2012-05-03 17:36:42 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Tsubutai wrote:
Are there diminishing returns on the increase or do you get the 'full' 15% from each resist that you're not being hit on? Specifically, if I were being hit exclusively with pure kinetic damage, what kinetic resist would the module confer?


The resist is calculated for the module itself, but when it's applied to the ship it goes through the normal channels. So, in the hypothetical scenario where you have no other resistance bonuses, then the max resist you could get from this module is 60% (the other three would then be at 0). But if you have other resistance bonuses, then your actual resist is calculated as usual.


That seems a little crazy, tbh. Theoretically, that means that the plain meta 0 t1 hardener can provide better resistances towards a specific damage type (60%) than a single-purpose T2 active hardener (55%). If the T2 version gets the same 10% increase over T1 as occurs with existing hardeners, that'd mean the plain jane T2 adaptive hardener could potentially provide a bigger resistance increase than a current X-type hardener.
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#191 - 2012-05-03 17:39:36 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
Can I take this opportunity to say that I love you, Punkturis? Thank you for these small fixes that make eve much more enjoyable.


wow not a bad compliment from an oscar award winning director! Blink

(it's my pleasureBig smileBig smileBig smile)

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

malaire
#192 - 2012-05-03 17:44:55 UTC  |  Edited by: malaire
Tsubutai wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Tsubutai wrote:
Are there diminishing returns on the increase or do you get the 'full' 15% from each resist that you're not being hit on? Specifically, if I were being hit exclusively with pure kinetic damage, what kinetic resist would the module confer?


The resist is calculated for the module itself, but when it's applied to the ship it goes through the normal channels. So, in the hypothetical scenario where you have no other resistance bonuses, then the max resist you could get from this module is 60% (the other three would then be at 0). But if you have other resistance bonuses, then your actual resist is calculated as usual.


That seems a little crazy, tbh. Theoretically, that means that the plain meta 0 t1 hardener can provide better resistances towards a specific damage type (60%) than a single-purpose T2 active hardener (55%). If the T2 version gets the same 10% increase over T1 as occurs with existing hardeners, that'd mean the plain jane T2 adaptive hardener could potentially provide a bigger resistance increase than a current X-type hardener.

But it does have important weakness normal modules don't have: FC commands fleet to use 1 damage type, then commands everyone to switch damage to something else which now has 0% resistance.

Also I havn't yet seen mentioned how long it takes for module to reach that 60%. Will it happen during single cycle or does it take several cycles to fully adjust.

EDIT: Also you can't just use 2 of them to cover 2 damage types effectively. They would both adjust to 30% (I believe), and because of stacking penalty 2nd module would only give 26.1%, which is 48.3% total from those 2 modules (if I calculated this right).

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else

malaire
#193 - 2012-05-03 18:14:12 UTC
malaire wrote:
But it does have important weakness normal modules don't have: FC commands fleet to use 1 damage type, then commands everyone to switch damage to something else which now has 0% resistance.

Actually, if module only considers relative amounts of different damage types ship is receiving, and not total damage, then only single missile per cycle is needed to move all resistance to single damage type, thereby making 3 other damage types have 0% resistance.

Which brings other question: Does this module only consider damage which hits armor, or any damage ship is receiving, even if it only hits shields?

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else

Silly Slot
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
#194 - 2012-05-03 19:16:38 UTC
malaire wrote:
Tsubutai wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Tsubutai wrote:
Are there diminishing returns on the increase or do you get the 'full' 15% from each resist that you're not being hit on? Specifically, if I were being hit exclusively with pure kinetic damage, what kinetic resist would the module confer?


The resist is calculated for the module itself, but when it's applied to the ship it goes through the normal channels. So, in the hypothetical scenario where you have no other resistance bonuses, then the max resist you could get from this module is 60% (the other three would then be at 0). But if you have other resistance bonuses, then your actual resist is calculated as usual.


That seems a little crazy, tbh. Theoretically, that means that the plain meta 0 t1 hardener can provide better resistances towards a specific damage type (60%) than a single-purpose T2 active hardener (55%). If the T2 version gets the same 10% increase over T1 as occurs with existing hardeners, that'd mean the plain jane T2 adaptive hardener could potentially provide a bigger resistance increase than a current X-type hardener.

But it does have important weakness normal modules don't have: FC commands fleet to use 1 damage type, then commands everyone to switch damage to something else which now has 0% resistance.

Also I havn't yet seen mentioned how long it takes for module to reach that 60%. Will it happen during single cycle or does it take several cycles to fully adjust.

EDIT: Also you can't just use 2 of them to cover 2 damage types effectively. They would both adjust to 30% (I believe), and because of stacking penalty 2nd module would only give 26.1%, which is 48.3% total from those 2 modules (if I calculated this right).


not to mention the bigger issue, especially in alpha warfare and high dps warfare... that first 10 second cycle of the module is gonna be HORRIBLE for you, i mean your talking what 12% resistence, and god forbid you just got done fighting someone that was using fusion, and run into someone thats using EMP, 0 resists SOAB lol
Pic'n dor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#195 - 2012-05-03 21:46:05 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Legion icon on the kill reports is huge compaired to the rest.


thanks:)



In fact, all T3 are not scaled correctly !

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/341444Capturedcran20120503231746.png

and the tengu in the same kill report is concerned too.

COUCOU TOUCHE TOUCHE

Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
#196 - 2012-05-03 21:58:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal
I think the only major mod things that really need to be discussed involve the tanking mods.
The drone mod simply needs to be better (less fitting, more bonus), and the CPU rig needs to be balanced so we don't have people getting fits that shouldn't be possible (ie: cov-ops titans).

ARMOR ADAPTIVE HARDENER
Simply put, it needs to be better. For starters, this module is only effective in small fights where the damage types are more concentrated as opposed to fleet fights. For this reason, these are never going to go on Capitals over a nice EANM.

With that said, the module needs to be more effective. The reason being is that this is a module that would act as your tertiary tank mod, for ships that would normally be plugging a small hole (ie: EM on T2 Gallente). It needs to be better because right now it's better to take your chances with a stacked EANM. The problem is that the adaptive module takes too long to react.

It has a 10 second cycle time and adjusts 1% into the respective spots per cycle.
It takes far too much time it takes to adjust to a level that would exceed that of a stacked EANM or simply another active specific hardener.

For starters, I would give the module significantly more HP for overloading. It overheats WAY too fast, and right now it's so weak that it NEEDS to be overloaded. Next, I would say at least double the rate it adapts. Either by percentage OR by reducing the cycle time. The mod is simply too weak at the moment to be taken seriously, as it's pretty much useless on T1 ships.

ANCILLARY SHIELD BOOSTERS
I'm hoping these are unfinished...

The first glaring problem is the reload time, and there are a couple reasons why.
I know why you've picked 60 seconds. It makes sense that since the maximum you can squeeze in is 6 tiny (navy) charges, you would make the reload time a combined amount (6 x 10) of a normal injector. the problem with this method is that, in fights where active tanking is useful, you cap out WAY too fast, and fights generally don't last much longer than 2 minutes or so. That is a HUGE amount of time where you can't boost.

That brings us to the second issue with the reload time. This has less to do with the module, but more to do with the reload mechanic. You can't do anything during the 60 seconds. Once your module starts to reload you can't use your ships cap in the meantime. This is a big no-no as far as I'm concerned, and for obvious reasons will always* result in the ship exploding long before it finishes reloading and starts to tank again.

The next issue is the cap charges themselves. Right now there is no reason to use the larger cap charges unless you LIKE to reload for 60 seconds. The cap doesn't overflow into the capacitor, so for using something like 800s (2 or 3 navy), you need to reload after a few seconds and have effectively burned through 800 cap PER CYCLE. That's an expensive shield booster. If boosting with larger charges would overflow into the capacitor & we can keep boosting, using ships cap, during the reload THEN there would be a reason to use them. Right now, small charges are ahead by a mile and larger ones are useless.

Lastly, I was under the impression that these things would just be drinking fuel from your cargo and not need to be reloaded after a few cycles like they do now. The balancing factor being that they would drink cap way faster (which they do) than the traditional types.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#197 - 2012-05-03 22:08:29 UTC
So about the new wardeck costs.
http://d35dgn2pdc8wsn.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20120503020931.jpeg

I guess Burn Jita is the last time we'll ever see anyone fighting goons in highsec again.

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544

Ohh Yeah
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
#198 - 2012-05-03 22:16:24 UTC
I mostly agree with Prometheus.

I was also under the impression that these ancillary boosters did not use cap boosters, but rather hydrogen batteries or whatever that commodity is called.

You would keep them in your cargo, and they would be consumed like fuel is for other modules on a per-cycle basis, with the ability to load a script to use capacitor instead of fuel.

The inability to rep during the 60 second reload timer is absurd, as nearly every ship I can think of that would benefit from these modules will die during this time. In practice (for example, with a large ancillary booster), you get five capless rep cycles in a fight, and then you're on cap for the rest of the fight, completely prone to energy neutralizers. If you turn off "auto reloading", you are able to consume the cap boosters and then continue to rep normally without reloading and locking yourself out, but this is extremely unintuitive.

Given the current reloading mechanics and the proximity of the Inferno release, I think the best bet is to make the module not hold cap charges, but simply consume them from the cargo like triage/siege modules.

The variety of charge sizes you can load also make no sense, as Prom outlined. The module itself would be more intuitive if it consumed X number of hydrogen batteries based on booster size, directly from the cargohold, with no reload time. So long as you have hydrogen batteries, you should be able to rep without using cap.
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#199 - 2012-05-03 22:43:52 UTC
SISSI was very buggy just now. I wasn't able to test the new shield/cap booster modules like I wanted to in combat. I'll log back on later and try it out. Here's what I was able to do:

Modified my Harpy...
I have a Genolution CA-1 and CA-2 for fitting purposes.
High:
Small Ion Blaster II x 4
Rocket Launcher II
Med:
Limited MWD
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster (new one)
Small Shield Extender II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler
Low:
MFS II
TE II x 2
Rigs:
Shield EM II
Shield Extender II

The Shield booster reps for 76 every 2.05 seconds. It holds 75 cap charges x 3. This gives you around 4 cycles of the booster that consume the charges. After that it goes after your capacitor. When you turn it off the shield booster starts a reload cycle that lasts for a minute. Shocked The AF has 2k in shield hit points. The booster gives about 300 hit point back in an 8 second time frame for no cap use. That is 15% of my shields.

To be honest that's a bit dissapointing. I would be better off just putting a medium shield extender and EM resistance rig on rather then the small extender and medium booster. I'd have close to 3k in shields with a higher shield recharge rate. Here is what I like:
  • Your tank is separate from your capacitor - at least for a very short time. This makes it very nuet resistant.
  • It made my think of how I could change up some typical setups. Instead of a Cyclone having a x-Large shield booster and cap booster, I could put on a LSE and an extra-large Ancillary Booster. This makes active tanking more possible with PvP.
I would suggest making the shield booster so that it HAS to run off of charges - it can't tap into your capacitor at all. Then radically increase the capacity on the ancillary boosters. Instead of 75 charge x 3 - make it 75 charge x 12. This would give you 1200~ hit points back in.
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#200 - 2012-05-03 22:44:21 UTC
Regarding the fueled shield booster - the first version I made actually used Hydrogen Batteries as fuel directly from the cargo hold, using a script. But there were several issues here, the most serious one being that it didn't fit one of the key criteria of the module, which was this is supposed to give temporary boost only. I.e. the intention was not to create a module that could be run non-stop throughout the whole combat. Instead, the thinking is that timing is important where you can temporarily tank more heavily than normally.

Now, whether cap boosters are the right choice or not can be debated, it has its pros and cons. Yes, it doesn't make sense to use an 800 instead of 400, but that isn't a bad thing per se - people will just use the 400 and that's fine. That being said, it is still in the picture to tweak stats and even create new kind of fuel charge, but fueling from the cargo hold didn't really work out when we tested it, i.e. it either allowed for endless boosting, or you having to fill you're cargo hold with a handful of fuel charges.