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Inferno Features on Singularity

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Author
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#421 - 2012-05-03 13:36:54 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:

And after expansion? There is no way outnumbered militia can ever regain those systems because the blob will always be there and it will always have time to form.


Yup. Greater blob will win, and fewer people will plex for occupancy because it will take too long to capture a system.

One of the great things about plexing right now is that you can capture a system in a reasonable amount of time. But whatever. Adapt as always.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#422 - 2012-05-03 13:45:23 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Damar Rocarion wrote:

And after expansion? There is no way outnumbered militia can ever regain those systems because the blob will always be there and it will always have time to form.


Yup. Greater blob will win, and fewer people will plex for occupancy because it will take too long to capture a system.

One of the great things about plexing right now is that you can capture a system in a reasonable amount of time. But whatever. Adapt as always.



Adapt = just go to null sec. Its the same overall approach of giving the larger side plenty of time to form their blob to make sure the side with fewer numbers can't accomplish anything.

Plus in null sec you get something better than watered down lp if you win.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#423 - 2012-05-03 13:52:31 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
I've been Roleplaying Factional warfare for the past 7 years son. Fanfest panel was full of support, we've been waiting for changes to FW that would make real benefits for owning space.
Where have you been roleplaying FW? Not in FW, that's for sure. Your pvp record sucks donkey balls which means you're a forum warrior at best who will never enter low sec. I am glad you have waited 7 years to start your pvp career. LOL.

X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#424 - 2012-05-03 13:54:05 UTC
Cearain wrote:

Adapt = just go to null sec. Its the same overall approach of giving the larger side plenty of time to form their blob to make sure the side with fewer numbers can't accomplish anything.

Plus in null sec you get something better than watered down lp if you win.
I agree with the "time to form up = blob" theory. However, since LP payouts will increase I will be able to horde massive numbers of Comets, ENIs, VNIs, and now Navy Domis. Might get a few Navy Megas too. :)
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#425 - 2012-05-03 14:03:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
sYnc Vir wrote:
Datacores are 1000LP + 1m isk for 5

Amarr LP Store has

Amarrian Starship Engineering, Graviton Physics, Lazor Phyics, Nanite Engineering, High Energy Phyics

Also I got 25K lp from a Major solo. Ihub grade status unknown but likely empty.

125K LP + 125m = 625 Datacores.

High Energy Phyics = 298k each x 625 = 186.215m - 125 = 61m profit
Nanite Engineering = 334k each x 625 = 208.75 = 125 = 83m profit.
Amarrian Starship Engineering = 299k x 625 = 186.8 =125 = 61.8m Profit
Lazor Phyics = 224k x 625 = 140m - 125 = 15m Profit
Graviton Physics = 198k x 625 = 123 - 125 = -1.25m loss.

Not sure thats a super good return for your LP. So either no ones gonna use it or Datacores are about to become alot more expensive.


Remember, Soundwave in his ten ton hammer interview that the idea is to scale back passive datacore accumulation in favor of active accrual. So yes, I imagine datacore prices WILL increase until Faction Warfare people start cashing in their LP and fill the production gap.

sYnc Vir wrote:
Is there an error with the LP numbers because Navy Ships have been increased alot along with some other stuff.

Navy Geddon now cost 600k LP and Navy Apoc is now 1m LP? Mistake or just a general FU to Navy ship farming?

Edit I ask because we're meant to get a discount on LP store and I just checked and Normally LP store remains the same, thus is now CHEAPER.

Edit, Edit. This changes kinda makes a Mac cheaper than a Navy Apoc if FW LP store is used. Who flies Navy Apoc over a mac?


If you watch the Fan Fest presentation, there is a portion where CCP Ytterbium discusses that the concept is for LP store prices to be on a sliding scale, tied to the overall success of one's faction. My guess (and a dev will have to verify) is that without any plexing or sov changes taking place since the patch, both factions are essentially at zero on accumulating factional perks based on war success, and thus the prices are wonky.

We were testing last night and also discovered high prices for out LP stores as well, so this isn't just affecting one militia or another. It also may be buggy at the moment, its impossible for us to tell until the devs explain precisely what is on the server and how it supposed to work. We may have to wait a few more days for the dev blog, unless they choose to come on and clarify sooner than that.

Overall, awesome reporting! This is great to see, pilots taking the time to hop on and PLAY and share their discoveries with others. I tip my hat to you. There are a whole host of emergent market scenarios that are simply impossible to predict, despite what anyone's claiming they know is going to happen. We just won't know how this will play out until its been on Tranquility a while, let alone SiSi.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Hidden Snake
The Church of Awesome
#426 - 2012-05-03 14:03:54 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Adapt = just go to null sec. Its the same overall approach of giving the larger side plenty of time to form their blob to make sure the side with fewer numbers can't accomplish anything.

Plus in null sec you get something better than watered down lp if you win.
I agree with the "time to form up = blob" theory. However, since LP payouts will increase I will be able to horde massive numbers of Comets, ENIs, VNIs, and now Navy Domis. Might get a few Navy Megas too. :)



well solution is to run 3 speedtanking alts and horde the meds or majors in remote enemy systems .... it does not matter if u do not flip it .... it is just lp farming afk tool ....

it dies? does not matter it is simple 600k lp toon ....


.... honestly changes will cause major fuckup ... but as usual we will adapt ... allways i can be low sec pies ;)
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#427 - 2012-05-03 14:05:59 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:

New CCP is not old CCP.



Really? You talk about iterating on faction war as if it will happen every other month. But CCP doesn't even fix bugs in the mechanics.

We have had 2 or 3 patches since a bug in the plexing mechanic has been clearly identified and ccp has not fixed it.

Jade welcome to faction war. This aint sov null sec where ccp is constantly wringing their hands to make sure everything works as intended.

Please tell me what ccp has done for faction war lately that makes you think they will give it any priority at all. Everything points to them puking this out and letting it sit there for years.

We do not even get the courtesy of a clear explanation/devblog telling us what is on sisi. No one can say.

"Go try it" is the answer.

Ok I did I see a militia tab that says I am at war with minmatar and nothing else. I can't use any services in a 24th imperial crusade station even though I fight for amarr. I do a plex and get a 17k lp for a medium but beyond that I have no idea what I accomplished. I look at the map and its the same blurry balls that give very fuzzy information.

How long am I supposed to stay on sisi trying to figure out what they are doing? The only thing that is clear is they are following through with their null sec lite plans. No docking and long timers.


BTW
not all the drones show up on dscan.
The sov tab on the map says (faction war) but it is listing alliances that are not in faction war.


Just fyi, the team shipping the faction warfare changes in Inferno will continue working on faction warfare after Inferno. Their task will be to follow up on the release and if they have time, add more stuff. First priority will be reacting to the changes that we ship, second priority adding new stuff to FW and the UI. That is their only task for the expansion following Inferno.

The second thing is this: I'm not entirely sure where the impression that we want to turn faction warfare into "0.0" has come from, but it's entirely inaccurate. We're not about to do that and the only similarity to 0.0 is that you'll be able to deny docking rights, which isn't turning Fw into 0.0, but common sense for any territorial combat, no matter where it is.

This is Sisi, it's a test server. It's where we put stuff to test it out and make changes, fix bugs etc. We write devblogs for releases, not for the test server. If you expect a devblog for our test server, you've entirely misunderstood how devblogs work.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#428 - 2012-05-03 14:06:37 UTC
New inventory: Much better than old. Just awesome. Doesn't need much time to get used to it after you figure out that you can still open new windows with holding shift. Helps a lot when dragging stuff around.

Amarr V3: Mostly awesome. Some of the T2 ships are quite dark. For example Abso, Pilgrim, Guardian. I like the new Vengeance and Anathema.

New missile effects: Nice looking effects, but there is a performance hit. FPS drop isn't too bad, but it's clearly noticeable especially when there's many missiles flying and hitting targets.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#429 - 2012-05-03 14:06:42 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
I've been Roleplaying Factional warfare for the past 7 years son. Fanfest panel was full of support, we've been waiting for changes to FW that would make real benefits for owning space.
Where have you been roleplaying FW? Not in FW, that's for sure. Your pvp record sucks donkey balls which means you're a forum warrior at best who will never enter low sec. I am glad you have waited 7 years to start your pvp career. LOL.


Let's keep the trash talk for the server, everyone. This is a feedback thread, I appreciate you keeping it as such.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Hidden Snake
The Church of Awesome
#430 - 2012-05-03 14:13:28 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:

New CCP is not old CCP.



Really? You talk about iterating on faction war as if it will happen every other month. But CCP doesn't even fix bugs in the mechanics.

We have had 2 or 3 patches since a bug in the plexing mechanic has been clearly identified and ccp has not fixed it.

Jade welcome to faction war. This aint sov null sec where ccp is constantly wringing their hands to make sure everything works as intended.

Please tell me what ccp has done for faction war lately that makes you think they will give it any priority at all. Everything points to them puking this out and letting it sit there for years.

We do not even get the courtesy of a clear explanation/devblog telling us what is on sisi. No one can say.

"Go try it" is the answer.

Ok I did I see a militia tab that says I am at war with minmatar and nothing else. I can't use any services in a 24th imperial crusade station even though I fight for amarr. I do a plex and get a 17k lp for a medium but beyond that I have no idea what I accomplished. I look at the map and its the same blurry balls that give very fuzzy information.

How long am I supposed to stay on sisi trying to figure out what they are doing? The only thing that is clear is they are following through with their null sec lite plans. No docking and long timers.


BTW
not all the drones show up on dscan.
The sov tab on the map says (faction war) but it is listing alliances that are not in faction war.


Just fyi, the team shipping the faction warfare changes in Inferno will continue working on faction warfare after Inferno. Their task will be to follow up on the release and if they have time, add more stuff. First priority will be reacting to the changes that we ship, second priority adding new stuff to FW and the UI. That is their only task for the expansion following Inferno.

The second thing is this: I'm not entirely sure where the impression that we want to turn faction warfare into "0.0" has come from, but it's entirely inaccurate. We're not about to do that and the only similarity to 0.0 is that you'll be able to deny docking rights, which isn't turning Fw into 0.0, but common sense for any territorial combat, no matter where it is.

This is Sisi, it's a test server. It's where we put stuff to test it out and make changes, fix bugs etc. We write devblogs for releases, not for the test server. If you expect a devblog for our test server, you've entirely misunderstood how devblogs work.



Can these people start playing FW/lowsec? Honestly current proposals showing CCP has no idea how the situation look and how is FW played. And yeah Fanfest is not best place to think about this.

I appreciate u finaly have team dedicated finaly ... can they become lowsec team instead of FW team?



Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
SE7EN-SINS
#431 - 2012-05-03 14:17:22 UTC
Did something happen to the server?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Silly Slot
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
#432 - 2012-05-03 14:23:28 UTC
Soundwave, is anyone reading the test forum's other threads with notes from the playtesting last night, especially surrounding the inventory system, haven't seen any real responses, punk was responding last night for a while but then i think went to sleep when we actually got to get in and start reporting on things....
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#433 - 2012-05-03 14:25:55 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Did something happen to the server?


It was taken down to update it.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

Silly Slot
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
#434 - 2012-05-03 14:30:15 UTC
daghhhhh someone grab the inventory guys and get them on to respond in the test feedback forum, and in their own devblog topic, people are begging to make input but not seeing any devs :( makes me sad panda
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#435 - 2012-05-03 14:32:55 UTC
Silly Slot wrote:
daghhhhh someone grab the inventory guys and get them on to respond in the test feedback forum, and in their own devblog topic, people are begging to make input but not seeing any devs :( makes me sad panda


RubberBAND, Optimal and Arrow have replied to plenty of feedback and encouraged more of it - also just because someone isn't seen to be responding, doesn't mean they aren't taking the feedback in.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

GeeShizzle MacCloud
#436 - 2012-05-03 14:39:51 UTC
lol @ the people not 'getting' the new inventory system btw.... tho took me a moment to realise it was essentially this

fyi i dont run vista64 :S tell tale signs of microsoft garbage left after updating to the good stuff!
Silly Slot
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
#437 - 2012-05-03 14:42:57 UTC
lol
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#438 - 2012-05-03 14:44:09 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:

Just fyi, the team shipping the faction warfare changes in Inferno will continue working on faction warfare after Inferno. Their task will be to follow up on the release and if they have time, add more stuff. First priority will be reacting to the changes that we ship, second priority adding new stuff to FW and the UI. That is their only task for the expansion following Inferno.


I think the community is just feeling like Charlie Brown running up to kick Lucy's football for the umpteenth time. They are wary about the results until they see it for themselves, and they've been disappointed in the past. But now you've gone and done it, by saying this we now get to hold you accountable!! A lack of further iteration in the next expansion will no doubt result in much pitchforking for great justice!

Quote:
This is Sisi, it's a test server. It's where we put stuff to test it out and make changes, fix bugs etc. We write devblogs for releases, not for the test server. If you expect a devblog for our test server, you've entirely misunderstood how devblogs work.


This is a good point, thanks for the reminder. I also appreciate those staff that have taken the time in this thread to clarify everyone's lingering questions about the changes, they go a long way at reducing some of the panic.

I do have one question though, is SiSi intended more for developers to test stuff out themselves, with public access merely being a nice perk, or is one of its primary functions to gather player feedback and bug reports? I think players are simply frustrated that they have nothing to benchmark the changes against. They can't verify whether the changes are working as intended, without knowing what the changes are supposed to be precisely.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#439 - 2012-05-03 14:49:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:

New CCP is not old CCP.



Really? You talk about iterating on faction war as if it will happen every other month. But CCP doesn't even fix bugs in the mechanics.

We have had 2 or 3 patches since a bug in the plexing mechanic has been clearly identified and ccp has not fixed it.

Jade welcome to faction war. This aint sov null sec where ccp is constantly wringing their hands to make sure everything works as intended.

Please tell me what ccp has done for faction war lately that makes you think they will give it any priority at all. Everything points to them puking this out and letting it sit there for years.

We do not even get the courtesy of a clear explanation/devblog telling us what is on sisi. No one can say.

"Go try it" is the answer.

Ok I did I see a militia tab that says I am at war with minmatar and nothing else. I can't use any services in a 24th imperial crusade station even though I fight for amarr. I do a plex and get a 17k lp for a medium but beyond that I have no idea what I accomplished. I look at the map and its the same blurry balls that give very fuzzy information.

How long am I supposed to stay on sisi trying to figure out what they are doing? The only thing that is clear is they are following through with their null sec lite plans. No docking and long timers.


BTW
not all the drones show up on dscan.
The sov tab on the map says (faction war) but it is listing alliances that are not in faction war.


Just fyi, the team shipping the faction warfare changes in Inferno will continue working on faction warfare after Inferno. Their task will be to follow up on the release and if they have time, add more stuff. First priority will be reacting to the changes that we ship, second priority adding new stuff to FW and the UI. That is their only task for the expansion following Inferno.

The second thing is this: I'm not entirely sure where the impression that we want to turn faction warfare into "0.0" has come from, but it's entirely inaccurate. We're not about to do that and the only similarity to 0.0 is that you'll be able to deny docking rights, which isn't turning Fw into 0.0, but common sense for any territorial combat, no matter where it is.

This is Sisi, it's a test server. It's where we put stuff to test it out and make changes, fix bugs etc. We write devblogs for releases, not for the test server. If you expect a devblog for our test server, you've entirely misunderstood how devblogs work.



Well this is good news. I hope they continue to iterate on faction war - to the extent they make it better and not more like the same thing we see in null sec.

Let me explain why the comparison with sov null sec being made:


1) In null sec it takes a long enough time to flip a system so a small gang can't do anything of substance before the more numerous side can form a blob and chase them out. You are doing this by making it take longer to flip a system.
2) In null sec you can deny docking rights so roaming fleets in enemy space are more rare, easier to counter, and take more planning and time to form up.
3) In null sec if you get the blob to capture a system you can upgrade your system so you can carebear more effectively

I mean this is basically sov null sec in a nut shell. In this expansion you are doing all these things. So in those regards you are making it more like sov null sec. In what ways is this expansion making faction war less like sov null sec?

I am not sure why it is common sense that an amarr milita member is not allowed to use any services or dock in a 24th imperial crusade station.

As far as dev blogs, I have given up on expecting them at all. The last faction war dev blog was how many years ago? If you read the end of that dev blog does it say that ccp will continue to work on faction war?

Even now it is very hard to find out how the current fw mechanics work. Can you point me to a ccp created source that really gives a detailed explanation of how many plexes need to switch and what effect the the size of the plex has on flipping it?

I am not trying to give you a hard time. I am just trying to explain that what you are doing is not being received well from many because we are already offered allot of these sorts of game play in eve and are not interested.

And although some people are saying give it a try and if it doesn't work ccp will change it there are 2 problems:

1) Some people will like these changes. The same people who like null sec have expressed they like these changes. So its not like no one will do faction war. People will. Its just that it will be people who already have what they are looking for in other parts of the game shifting back and forth. You won't be adding anything really unique to keep the people who aren't interested in the sov null sec stuff entertained.

2) Well your past history in treating faction war as something that doesn't deserve ongoing concern.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Marcus Foederatus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#440 - 2012-05-03 14:56:52 UTC
Still waiting for an answer on cynos being an upgrade for FW occupancy. Also, what's the deal with the LP store prices? Surely you're not going to completely remove the discount we got before and make it easier for high sec bears to crash the market?