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Inferno And Datacores

First post
Author
Dini Mueter
Incompatible Protocol
#81 - 2012-05-02 10:55:44 UTC
Francisco Bizzaro wrote:
Years? Months? Thousands of jumps? A billion and a half ISK per character??... I think you were doing it wrong. Anyhow, if you've really done thousands of jumps, you've been collecting datacores for quite some time and probably earned a tidy sum from them already.


Datacore mining takes around two years from you create the character until you actually see a return in the invested resources. If you wish to accelerate this, you need to watch the market and adjust your research to the most profitable cores, which are constantly fluctuating based on other developments in EVE, like the boost to hybrid turrets. As the agents are typically scattered far from each other, in different regions even, there is significant amounts of travel required to collect and sell your product. Also, I started this around 2 years ago, so yes, I'm about to break even on two of my characters and one of them have begun to net a small profit.

Francisco Bizzaro wrote:

Seriously, people trained research skills who have no interest in research. It's no surprise that they are closing the loophole that encouraged this.


Oh, that may very well be. Just like people buy ships on the market that they have no interest in flying, just to resell them at a higher price. Or people that have no interest in producing T2 ships mine moon minerals. That argument has no merit in EVE whatsoever.

Francisco Bizzaro wrote:

The minute you work out the ISK that can be earned from datacores, you think to yourself: This mechanic is so dumb it verges on being an CCP-endorsed exploit. Should I bet some training time/standings grind on this, or will the datacore market crash soon, or will CCP realize the dumbness before it pays off?


I'm not even sure what you're trying to say with this? If this was such an easy way of making ISK you'd think more people were doing it? Like all of EVE? The truth of it is that some of us had research characters from before the datacore system, trying our luck in the T2 BPO lottery. Some won big, others like me never won anything. Regardless, I did not suddenly jump onto an exploit bandwagon, I am following a natural progression of my research and production based characters, and decided to capitalize on it by creating extra alts to support that. This is no different than people training extra characters to assist with looting in missions or haul during mining operations.

Francisco Bizzaro wrote:

If you've created a full-time career out of farming these things without having any other need for R&D skills or other source of income ... well, that is the saddest thing I've read on the forums today - and that includes having skimmed a page or two of "Goons need to save face".


I never said that I don't do any other R&D work. I am an industrialist at heart, and I do invention with some of my datacores, but regardless of that fact who made you the judge of what is the right way to play the game? It's obvious to anyone reading your posts that you know little to nothing about industry in EVE, so why would you come here and troll in a thread about datacores?

Any other non-arguments you wanna throw at us while you're trolling?




Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-05-02 10:58:59 UTC
Taking away R&D from the characters that haven chosen this aspect of the game as their focus and giving it to other players who never really cared about it sounds like a bad move. It's like taking away warpscramblers from the pvp crowd and make them only operable on exhumers.
On the other hand I really believe that the R&D system should be somewhat reworked- right now I have to watch my sec status very carefully, since if it drops too low, I will not be able to visit some of my R&D agents anymore.
Eve is a pvp game- any mechanism that disencourages you to pvp (= actually play the game) is a bad mechanism and should be changed.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#83 - 2012-05-02 11:05:31 UTC
We're not removing research agents or the ability to farm datacores from them. What we're going to do is slow down the rate of datacores you accumulate and put a small pricetag on them.

Additionally to that, they're being added to the Faction Warfare LP store, with a dynamic price.

We should have a devblog out later this month with the exact details.
Dini Mueter
Incompatible Protocol
#84 - 2012-05-02 11:07:17 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're not removing research agents or the ability to farm datacores from them. What we're going to do is slow down the rate of datacores you accumulate and put a small pricetag on them.

Additionally to that, they're being added to the Faction Warfare LP store, with a dynamic price.

We should have a devblog out later this month with the exact details.


Thank you for that clarification. Can you confirm whether or not the datacores added to the faction warfare LP stores are only the racial ship engineering datacores or will it be all of them?

CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#85 - 2012-05-02 11:12:26 UTC
Dini Mueter wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're not removing research agents or the ability to farm datacores from them. What we're going to do is slow down the rate of datacores you accumulate and put a small pricetag on them.

Additionally to that, they're being added to the Faction Warfare LP store, with a dynamic price.

We should have a devblog out later this month with the exact details.


Thank you for that clarification. Can you confirm whether or not the datacores added to the faction warfare LP stores are only the racial ship engineering datacores or will it be all of them?



We've divided all of them into the LP stores.
Dini Mueter
Incompatible Protocol
#86 - 2012-05-02 11:14:12 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Dini Mueter wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're not removing research agents or the ability to farm datacores from them. What we're going to do is slow down the rate of datacores you accumulate and put a small pricetag on them.

Additionally to that, they're being added to the Faction Warfare LP store, with a dynamic price.

We should have a devblog out later this month with the exact details.


Thank you for that clarification. Can you confirm whether or not the datacores added to the faction warfare LP stores are only the racial ship engineering datacores or will it be all of them?



We've divided all of them into the LP stores.


Thanks. Off to the markets then Shocked
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#87 - 2012-05-02 11:19:14 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Additionally to that, they're being added to the Faction Warfare LP store, with a dynamic price.


At least your previous suggestions of moving a large portion of data core production to exploration made sense. This change sounds an awful lot like you ran the hat around for ideas on boosting the attractiveness of Faction Warfare, and data core production by blowing up militia ships happened to make it into the cut.

Do you really want people engaging in Faction Warfare simply because it is a better income than level 4 missions or Incursions? What do the current FW community feel about having their numbers bolstered with mercenaries?

Mining with guns, all over again.
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#88 - 2012-05-02 11:21:31 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Additionally to that, they're being added to the Faction Warfare LP store, with a dynamic price.


At least your previous suggestions of moving a large portion of data core production to exploration made sense. This change sounds an awful lot like you ran the hat around for ideas on boosting the attractiveness of Faction Warfare, and data core production by blowing up militia ships happened to make it into the cut.

Do you really want people engaging in Faction Warfare simply because it is a better income than level 4 missions or Incursions? What do the current FW community feel about having their numbers bolstered with mercenaries?

Mining with guns, all over again.


Mining with guns was bad because it detracted from real mining. This is bad because it detracts from......what exactly?

We want to move T2 production more towards low and zero-sec. This gives us a very cool venue for FW to influence the rest of the universe instead of being a closed-loop system.
Corbin Blair
Doomheim
#89 - 2012-05-02 11:21:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Corbin Blair
CCP Phantom wrote:
Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic and polite, thank you.

How come any time I click one of those blue dev thingies on a post there's never any useful information. What's the point of the blue thingy? Inferno information or GTFO.

CCP Soundwave wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Additionally to that, they're being added to the Faction Warfare LP store, with a dynamic price.


At least your previous suggestions of moving a large portion of data core production to exploration made sense. This change sounds an awful lot like you ran the hat around for ideas on boosting the attractiveness of Faction Warfare, and data core production by blowing up militia ships happened to make it into the cut.

Do you really want people engaging in Faction Warfare simply because it is a better income than level 4 missions or Incursions? What do the current FW community feel about having their numbers bolstered with mercenaries?

Mining with guns, all over again.


Mining with guns was bad because it detracted from real mining. This is bad because it detracts from......what exactly?

We want to move T2 production more towards low and zero-sec. This gives us a very cool venue for FW to influence the rest of the universe instead of being a closed-loop system.

Thanks.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#90 - 2012-05-02 11:27:12 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:


Mining with guns was bad because it detracted from real mining. This is bad because it detracts from......what exactly?

We want to move T2 production more towards low and zero-sec. This gives us a very cool venue for FW to influence the rest of the universe instead of being a closed-loop system.


So...inventing and building t2 stuff will no longer automatically doom me to a bleak and humiliating carebear life?

Sounds good to me....

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Max Teranous
Teranous Productions
#91 - 2012-05-02 11:29:28 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're not removing research agents or the ability to farm datacores from them. What we're going to do is slow down the rate of datacores you accumulate and put a small pricetag on them.

Additionally to that, they're being added to the Faction Warfare LP store, with a dynamic price.

We should have a devblog out later this month with the exact details.


Sup.

Dynamic pricing in LP stores? How are you going to do that then? As currently the LP store rewards are horribly set and are all over the place. Is this new dynamic function going to be for Datacores only or all LP store items?

Max Cool
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#92 - 2012-05-02 11:31:13 UTC
Max Teranous wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're not removing research agents or the ability to farm datacores from them. What we're going to do is slow down the rate of datacores you accumulate and put a small pricetag on them.

Additionally to that, they're being added to the Faction Warfare LP store, with a dynamic price.

We should have a devblog out later this month with the exact details.


Sup.

Dynamic pricing in LP stores? How are you going to do that then? As currently the LP store rewards are horribly set and are all over the place. Is this new dynamic function going to be for Datacores only or all LP store items?

Max Cool


We have a pretty cool system, which Ytterbium will outline in a devblog :)

All I can say is that if you're good at killing things, you'll benefit.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#93 - 2012-05-02 11:33:13 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Mining with guns was bad because it detracted from real mining. This is bad because it detracts from......what exactly?


What happened to previous ideas of increasing data core availability through exploration?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#94 - 2012-05-02 11:34:56 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
So...inventing and building t2 stuff will no longer automatically doom me to a bleak and humiliating carebear life?


How did inventing and building T2 stuff ever doom you to a bleak and humiliating care bear life? That sounds like a major case of putting the cart before the horse.
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#95 - 2012-05-02 11:44:42 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Mining with guns was bad because it detracted from real mining. This is bad because it detracts from......what exactly?


What happened to previous ideas of increasing data core availability through exploration?


Right now, 0.0 feels a lot more healthy than low-sec. There are a few good ways of making money there right now and I'm not sure adding another steady source to compete is as good as doing something for low-sec. Exploration is something I see getting a lot more rare and "jack-pot" type rewards, rather than something farm-able like datacores. It's profession that should rely on you tracking down diamonds, not standing at an assembly line.
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#96 - 2012-05-02 12:06:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
Soundwave, just move level 4 missions and incursions to low sec, and you would have balanced the game

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
#97 - 2012-05-02 12:16:43 UTC
You do realise you're saying "low sec" when you mean FW right?

The two are not mutually exclusive but are quite different given plenty of people live in lowsec and are not in FW. Unfortunately lots of people in FW don't class as "lowsec" pilots coz they're there to farm missions in bombers too.

Boost lowsec - yes, boost FW - yes, but dont think boosting FW is a boost to all lowsec.

Cheers.
Francisco Bizzaro
#98 - 2012-05-02 12:19:31 UTC
Dini Mueter wrote:
Francisco Bizzaro wrote:

If you've created a full-time career out of farming these things without having any other need for R&D skills or other source of income ... well, that is the saddest thing I've read on the forums today - and that includes having skimmed a page or two of "Goons need to save face".

I never said that I don't do any other R&D work. I am an industrialist at heart, and I do invention with some of my datacores, but regardless of that fact who made you the judge of what is the right way to play the game? It's obvious to anyone reading your posts that you know little to nothing about industry in EVE, so why would you come here and troll in a thread about datacores?

If you are an industrialist, why are you bitter about having spent time training R&D? Your previous post argues for the sake of those who have wasted time training R&D skills for datacore income, and I responded to those points specifically. But your estimates of "years" of training and 1.5 billion ISK in skill books is for a full-fledged career in industry. It's an exaggeration to say that is needed for datacore farming. And an industrialist doesn't need to threaten to run missions as a result of these changes.

My comments are directed at datacore farmers. You can earn a profit on a very short timescale if that is your only objective in industry. It's pure passive income that non-industrial pilots like myself have been exploiting, and I'd be happy if that system were changed.
Killer Gandry
Fenghuang Corporation
#99 - 2012-05-02 12:23:40 UTC
Next year EVE will come with free condomes per account.

That way when they screw you it will be atleast safe.
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#100 - 2012-05-02 12:24:49 UTC
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
You do realise you're saying "low sec" when you mean FW right?

The two are not mutually exclusive but are quite different given plenty of people live in lowsec and are not in FW. Unfortunately lots of people in FW don't class as "lowsec" pilots coz they're there to farm missions in bombers too.

Boost lowsec - yes, boost FW - yes, but dont think boosting FW is a boost to all lowsec.

Cheers.


I second this, there are a lot of pilots who have nothing to do with FW that have connections to low sec. Low sec needs more than just some new items to be farmed in the FW LP store.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...