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So why is CCP supporting the Burn Jita event?

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Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#101 - 2012-04-30 04:00:03 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
I think the onus of proof is on you?


True. I actually thought about going into great detail on all the mechanics I view as enablers for such things like 'burn Jita' to happen. Then I remembered that most of the forum posters are trolls and would miss the entire point of my post. I would much rather have someone who is not viewed as bias or anything make a thread so perhaps, some of you would actually legitimately read and comprehend it instead of immediately go into troll mode due to who the author was.


This is a super convenient response. "I'd show evidence, but you people wouldn't get it, so I won't."


And you do nothing but troll on the forums. Trying to explain something to you is pointless. So please **** off and die; in game of course. Blink
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#102 - 2012-04-30 04:07:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Lapine Davion
Marlona Sky wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
I think the onus of proof is on you?


True. I actually thought about going into great detail on all the mechanics I view as enablers for such things like 'burn Jita' to happen. Then I remembered that most of the forum posters are trolls and would miss the entire point of my post. I would much rather have someone who is not viewed as bias or anything make a thread so perhaps, some of you would actually legitimately read and comprehend it instead of immediately go into troll mode due to who the author was.


This is a super convenient response. "I'd show evidence, but you people wouldn't get it, so I won't."


And you do nothing but troll on the forums. Trying to explain something to you is pointless. So please **** off and die; in game of course. Blink


See? We asked for some evidence, but the continued excuse given back to us is "You wouldn't get it, so I'm not going to show it to you."

Why not just lay out the evidence and let us all decide?

I actually don't troll on the forums all that much. I point out terrible ideas on a regular basis though.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Son IamaDerp
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2012-04-30 04:08:26 UTC
Kurai Kihaku wrote:
Just want to understand the logic behind the game company taking such a stance.

Piracy, scamming, and griefing, all that I understand. But what is happenign with the "Burn Jita" event is completely different.

I want to know why CCP feels that even thought I pay my $15/mo just like the members of the GF they can do whatever they want, and I cannot. (Example: Going to Jita when GF feels I shouldn't.)

I think that EVE's biggest strength is also it's biggest weakness. It has become a little too much like RL. In ALL mmos, there is nothing a powerful corp, or a guild can do to prevent other people from playing the game any way they like. They may have the best items/gear... the most friends... the most influence.... but there is absolutely nothing allowing the more powerful players to interfere with, or hinder in anyway the game-play of others.

I can directly compare what is happening in EVE to a cable company. Let's say thousands of people are watching TV and their favorite channel gets blocked.

Suddenly a malignant individual decides to hack into the cable network, and blocks this channel. Off course at this point the cable company would try to do whatever they can to track down and deal with this individual.

But what's happening in EVE is more like, the cable company saying "Hmm.. This is interesting... all these people..They are so boring, laying on their couch watching movies.. Let' add a little something into their lives. Let's make them cry and scream with anger because they lack in diversity of emotions. Lets conduct a social experiment of sorts and let this hacker continue what he is doing.... "

Really, I think CCP is giving GF a little too much credit, allowing them to be the force of nature in EVE. The Yang that comes with the Yin, the spoon of tar in the barrel of honey, the black stripe in a pattern of white and black stripes... Well you get the point.

If CCP feels we need a little "spice" in our life, then why not alter those Sansha invasions to go directly into Jita or Amarr, or Rens or whatever... or program NPC pirates to go after mining ships at random times. Who the hell appointed GF to decide when the carebears have been having a too calm a life and need to be "shaken up a bit"?

Honestly I think those who chose the carebear gameplay style are already punished enough. They are essentially blocked out of all the fun gameplay elements. They cannot have access to best loot, they cannot mine the best ore, they cannot roam the world of eve without getting blown up as soon as they step out of their little fenced pen. But they are not choked enough... Lets tighten the noose some more, right?! Wrong.... Press this group of people too hard, and you got no one to grief anymore. No one to block. No one to make cry...

In a sense, this whole thing reminds me of our society, the extreme respect and admiration for professions such as doctors or lawyers and the complete lack of that same respect for those in lower professions. But wait.... We need these people! If no one was flipping burgers, no one was cleaning out the garbage, etc, etc... What kind of the world would be be living in?

Carebears fill an essential role in EVE. Without them, EVE would be missing a lot of what makes it great.

I believe that the best game, is one where people can choose to play any way they like. If you want to be a boring carebear, be a boring carebear. If you want to be a vicious pirate, be one. But the two should not be mixed forcefully because that ruins the gameplay experience for those that do not want to PvP. (there's lowsec and 0.0 for that!) Don't these people also pay the $15/mo fee? And if they do, why is it that they don't deserve to play EVE any way they like without being interrupted?


Quote:


Lead game designer Kristoffer Touborg tells Eurogamer that player-driven events such as Burn Jita are what make Eve Online different from other games.

"We want people to be able to do this. If Goonswarm want to do it, we want them to do it and we want them to have a great time doing it," Lander added. "The worst thing we could do is to stop it happening. It would be appalling for the game. It would be against everything we stand for."


And what the hell do you stand for Kristof? People making other people's life miserable?

Quote:
"The people they're going to hurt now are people who have quite a lot of security," he said. "There's not a lot of turnaround on ships and goods in Empire. I think it might be healthy if we lose a lot of this industrial power, if they have to go back and save up for their ships again and be a part of the cycle of life everyone else is a part of."


You "think".... I "think" it would be "healthy" for EVE if the Goons lost a lot of their power, but they are losing nothing aside from their ships an a small part of their wealth, while the Carebears are losing everything.

Tell us how you really feel.
Sidus Sarmiang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2012-04-30 04:08:37 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:
Looks like the OP has slinked back to his hole in shame.


If only I knew where that was so I could gank him there.


I'm sure you actually meant you wanted to *thank* the OP. Not gank. Because ganking is harassment and is against the EULA and TOS and is illegal and will get you executed in all countries.



That's a very good point. I don't feel quite ready to thank him for his post, but perhaps a few polite comments and a discussion of our disagreements in a friendly setting would be a comfortable middle ground.
Kestrix
The Whispering
#105 - 2012-04-30 04:28:19 UTC
Kurai Kihaku if you were heading to an asteroid belt to do some mining, but found when you arrived another corp already their, mining the roids. Would you just sit their in outrage at this group of players who can do whatever they want, whilst you cannot? I would hope that a normal player would simply move on to another belt or come back later.

Your OP is complete drivel!

Quote:
I want to know why CCP feels that even thought I pay my $15/mo just like the members of the GF they can do whatever they want, and I cannot (Example: Going to Jita when GF feels I shouldn't.).


You can go to Jita, anytime you want! Goons can't stop you. They can try to make your life diffficult but theirs always ways around that. The only thing that stops you going to Jita is the yellow streak down your back.
Quinner Hawkstone
East Interstellar Trading Company
#106 - 2012-04-30 04:57:24 UTC
A few points

One, having a ship or two running protection is not always the solution as there are those out there unwilling to accept the failure of their first attempted suicide gank so they keep coming back with more and more friends until they overwhelm the decided target. Just exactly how much glory is there in zerging someone in Eve?

Two, some people choose to avoid the loss of their created internet pixels in the game because they actually engage in combat with people in real life. Blowing up someone else's pixels just doesn't do anything for them. Yet, many persist in calling those who avoid imaginary pvp pixels "carebears" and imply that they are somewhat less than those who are really good at blowing up imaginary pixels.

I have no problem with the Burn Jita event nor am I concerned at all about Hulkageddon. If someone comes along and blows up my imaginary internet pixels while I am mining or missioning, I will shrug my shoulders and outfit a new ship to either mine or run missions.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2012-04-30 05:15:28 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Mocam wrote:

Perhaps the ability of a group to do this will bring in other corrections -- like we've seen recently with those supers. When a group of players turns a sandbox into a litter box for their amusement, CCP does tend to take notice and "fixes" come out to remove their ability to do so.

Actions do have consequences and many game changes tend to come about due to player actions.


Action: A bunch of Freighters and JF's blew up in Jita. Consequence: This qq post.

Working as intended.


And the same was said about Titans & Super carriers blowing up small ships. "Working as Intended" by those involved, until it changed but that took months... close to a year before they fixed it yet CCP seems to be trying to address player concerns at a far faster clip than before...

We'll see if the player-base annoyance gets far enough where CCP decides that corrections to stop nullsec players from finding such petty activities as market manipulation and trade-hub camping preferable to war.

That is the problem right now - too few threats to null coupled with a huge population that feels it cannot leave highsec. That composite is "game breaking".

It needs fixing and no, they aren't all "carebears" - simply put, players joining EVE come into this game with the facts that it is a harsh noir style world where PvP is broadly spread out. Every single day in pretty much any forum or chat channel about this game, you will find posts to that effect.

As such, having that many in such a small space while "end-game" nullsec is so "lacking in content" as to have the residents there going elsewhere "to find action", while their holdings remain safe from threat. That points out some seriously messed up game mechanics when that place is so safe and secure.

Yes there are problems that need fixing and if the real problems are fixed, this artificial fluff will go away.
Major Spag
State War Academy
Caldari State
#108 - 2012-04-30 05:21:27 UTC
I think the OP needs friends. Guys, we should make this guy our friend.
Arkady Vachon
The Gold Angels
Sixth Empire
#109 - 2012-04-30 05:23:12 UTC
Kurai Kihaku wrote:
J

"Help! Help! I'm a Victim!"



[Wednesday Addams] "All your life..." [/Wednesday Addams]

Nothing Personal - Just Business...

Chaos Creates Content
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2012-04-30 05:35:24 UTC
I can still go to jita. Working as intended.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Landrae
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2012-04-30 05:48:29 UTC
Kurai Kihaku wrote:
I want to know why CCP feels that even thought I pay my $15/mo just like the members of the GF they can do whatever they want, and I cannot. (Example: Going to Jita when GF feels I shouldn't.)



The derp is strong with this one. I lol'd

Welcome to Eve Online
Amanda Holland
Doomheim
#112 - 2012-04-30 06:08:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Holland
I believe mostly cause of the fact that "its a sandbox"

And a bit of the idea that theyre trying to force CCP to "show their hand" and I think the easiest way for them to mitigate that would be to step back and let PVP happen in their PVP game

Sidus Sarmiang wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:
Looks like the OP has slinked back to his hole in shame.


If only I knew where that was so I could gank him there.


I'm sure you actually meant you wanted to *thank* the OP. Not gank. Because ganking is harassment and is against the EULA and TOS and is illegal and will get you executed in all countries.



That's a very good point. I don't feel quite ready to thank him for his post, but perhaps a few polite comments and a discussion of our disagreements in a friendly setting would be a comfortable middle ground.


I was under the idea that theres no such thing as harassment in this game

ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) vroom vroom motorcycle CCP to the sandbox: "This "adapt or die" attitude is nothing new to EVE, but we want to give it a constant rhythm that is a bit more under our control than in the past"
Major Spag
State War Academy
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-04-30 06:16:09 UTC
Amanda Holland wrote:


I was under the idea that theres no such thing as harassment in this game


My eyes are being harassed at the posting itt. Does that count?
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#114 - 2012-04-30 06:17:48 UTC
Major Spag wrote:
Amanda Holland wrote:


I was under the idea that theres no such thing as harassment in this game


My eyes are being harassed at the posting itt. Does that count?


You expected better of eve-o?

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2012-04-30 06:18:29 UTC
Major Spag wrote:


My eyes are being harassed at the posting itt. Does that count?


No sorry, now keep looking
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#116 - 2012-04-30 06:27:33 UTC
Amanda Holland wrote:
I was under the idea that theres no such thing as harassment in this game

You REALLY have to work at it before CCP will actually consider it harassment, but there is. If you camp someone into a station for a month, thats harassment. If you keep a freighter trapped by bumping it for hours for no reason other than lulz, thats harassment. Anything else is either PVP or fixable with the ignore feature.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Dungar's Sister
Never Ignorant Gettin' Goals Accomplished
Gimme Da Loot
#117 - 2012-04-30 06:27:49 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Mocam wrote:

Perhaps the ability of a group to do this will bring in other corrections -- like we've seen recently with those supers. When a group of players turns a sandbox into a litter box for their amusement, CCP does tend to take notice and "fixes" come out to remove their ability to do so.

Actions do have consequences and many game changes tend to come about due to player actions.


Action: A bunch of Freighters and JF's blew up in Jita. Consequence: This qq post.

Working as intended.


And the same was said about Titans & Super carriers blowing up small ships. "Working as Intended" by those involved, until it changed but that took months... close to a year before they fixed it yet CCP seems to be trying to address player concerns at a far faster clip than before...

We'll see if the player-base annoyance gets far enough where CCP decides that corrections to stop nullsec players from finding such petty activities as market manipulation and trade-hub camping preferable to war.

That is the problem right now - too few threats to null coupled with a huge population that feels it cannot leave highsec. That composite is "game breaking".

It needs fixing and no, they aren't all "carebears" - simply put, players joining EVE come into this game with the facts that it is a harsh noir style world where PvP is broadly spread out. Every single day in pretty much any forum or chat channel about this game, you will find posts to that effect.

As such, having that many in such a small space while "end-game" nullsec is so "lacking in content" as to have the residents there going elsewhere "to find action", while their holdings remain safe from threat. That points out some seriously messed up game mechanics when that place is so safe and secure.

Yes there are problems that need fixing and if the real problems are fixed, this artificial fluff will go away.

You're dumb as hell.
Amanda Holland
Doomheim
#118 - 2012-04-30 06:29:40 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Amanda Holland wrote:
I was under the idea that theres no such thing as harassment in this game

You REALLY have to work at it before CCP will actually consider it harassment, but there is. If you camp someone into a station for a month, thats harassment. .


eh thats called war not harassment, I assumed thats WHY the war system is set up to BE able to do that

ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) vroom vroom motorcycle CCP to the sandbox: "This "adapt or die" attitude is nothing new to EVE, but we want to give it a constant rhythm that is a bit more under our control than in the past"
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#119 - 2012-04-30 06:37:17 UTC
Amanda Holland wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Amanda Holland wrote:
I was under the idea that theres no such thing as harassment in this game

You REALLY have to work at it before CCP will actually consider it harassment, but there is. If you camp someone into a station for a month, thats harassment. .


eh thats called war not harassment, I assumed thats WHY the war system is set up to BE able to do that

If you camp a corp in, its war, if you camp an individual in, its harassment....

Everything is fair if you can give a reason for doing it other than the lulz tho.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#120 - 2012-04-30 06:54:32 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Mocam wrote:

Perhaps the ability of a group to do this will bring in other corrections -- like we've seen recently with those supers. When a group of players turns a sandbox into a litter box for their amusement, CCP does tend to take notice and "fixes" come out to remove their ability to do so.

Actions do have consequences and many game changes tend to come about due to player actions.


Action: A bunch of Freighters and JF's blew up in Jita. Consequence: This qq post.

Working as intended.


And the same was said about Titans & Super carriers blowing up small ships. "Working as Intended" by those involved, until it changed but that took months... close to a year before they fixed it yet CCP seems to be trying to address player concerns at a far faster clip than before...

We'll see if the player-base annoyance gets far enough where CCP decides that corrections to stop nullsec players from finding such petty activities as market manipulation and trade-hub camping preferable to war.

That is the problem right now - too few threats to null coupled with a huge population that feels it cannot leave highsec. That composite is "game breaking".

It needs fixing and no, they aren't all "carebears" - simply put, players joining EVE come into this game with the facts that it is a harsh noir style world where PvP is broadly spread out. Every single day in pretty much any forum or chat channel about this game, you will find posts to that effect.

As such, having that many in such a small space while "end-game" nullsec is so "lacking in content" as to have the residents there going elsewhere "to find action", while their holdings remain safe from threat. That points out some seriously messed up game mechanics when that place is so safe and secure.

Yes there are problems that need fixing and if the real problems are fixed, this artificial fluff will go away.



So basically what you are saying is that calls for the balancing of a ship and module type, and calls for the elimination of an actual style of play are the same thing?

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]