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Goons "legalising" botting!!

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Stella SGP
#101 - 2011-09-29 07:24:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Stella SGP
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Since CCP made them assume responsibility for members breaking the EULA:

Quote:
In the past CCP has contacted alliance directors and ordered them to bring their alliance into line when individual members of that alliance have gone against the EULA examples I can remember from the goons include:
Posting of common world war 2 german phrases in local. (referring to Germans as being members of a certain political persuasion)
General Spam in local. (lag causing)
Creation of phallic shaped can arrangements in space. (obviously inappropriate)
Naming of Stations with names that are not approved by CCP. (comical and direct enough to make it to fanfest)
In all these cases a CCP GM contacted either a director or alliance CEO and insisted that individual police the alliance and limit the rule breaking.


CCP set the precedent. Now like all good organisations they have found a way to use it.

Are you [insert inflammatory remark]?

CCP was just trying to be nice and smacked their wrist. Of coarse CCP could have just as easily given them several days ban, but then your kind would start crying on the forums about they are being too heavy handed.

For all of the above examples you have quoted, in no way was there any indication that CCP made them assume anything. CCP simply said, play nice.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#102 - 2011-09-29 07:24:19 UTC
It all comes down to whether or not you want to do what's best for yourself (or your corp/alliance), or what's best for the game.

If someone comes to me and says that they've seen a PIE member botting, I'll tell them to report it to CCP. If I ever see a PIE member botting, I'll report them myself.

That's because I don't want to "win" Eve at the expense of destroying the game.


Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Stella SGP
#103 - 2011-09-29 07:29:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Stella SGP
dbl post
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2011-09-29 08:12:54 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
It all comes down to whether or not you want to do what's best for yourself (or your corp/alliance), or what's best for the game.

If someone comes to me and says that they've seen a PIE member botting, I'll tell them to report it to CCP. If I ever see a PIE member botting, I'll report them myself.

That's because I don't want to "win" Eve at the expense of destroying the game.




It's not really so simple - even from what I've seen in the game.

About a year and a half ago, I'd heard about bots for a long time yet hadn't really seen one. Some folks came into our chat and started talking about this bot in a belt mining.

I flew out to see what a bot setup looked like - found the ships and sent a tell to a hulk - mixed exhumers, only 1 hulk.

A minute or so later the convo is accepted with a brisk "what do you want?" - I informed him that I'd been told there were bots running and... He about bit my head off on a tirade about how often he was accused of being a bot.

He had multiple accounts and AFK mined a lot. He didn't run bots and had dealt with CCP on the complaints numerous times yet repeatedly had been cleared yet still caught flack from other players for "botting".

The subject came up in chat on our voice server and I asked how common some others thought this multiple-account "not bots" was and one of our seniors started to laugh... It's extremely common for people to accuse others of botting - even if it's just multiple accounts running with AFK mining. Anyone that doesn't instantly reply is "a bot".


As such - seeing an alliance leader telling their membership to report it INTERNALLY first -for internal investigation - vs reporting or popping someone... It can make sense.

EVE University has rules about conflicts and differences among members.

If you have a dispute or disagreement - you take it to a corp officer who is assigned to deal with such matters and THEY will handle it - from warnings through "inaccurate" around to booting people - they handle such complaints internally and do investigate the issues.

So if the rather large corp I'm in can have such "internal policy" rules - I can see other large corporations not wanting some ass-hat going off in the wrong direction and "17 hours" - any idea how many people I see claiming 300 mill an hour doing level 4 missions? ...

Exaggerations are common enough that such statements don't fluster me. Especially if they did investigate the person and found it wasn't a bot and had proof that "17 hours" was flat out wrong. (often easy to tell from membership details -AND- a quick convo from a corp officer.

So no - I'm not "flabbergasted" nor flustered. A bit of thought and it can make sense for an organization to internally deal with issues BEFORE 'bringing in officials'.

The only "proofs" that might be requested would be for goons to show they DO act against members found to be botting - "we kicked xyz" "we fed pdq to CCP" etc... Not a mandate to them but a "nice to show" gig that they don't follow what appears to be showing in that memo fragment. Such would be THEIR call and I'd fully support a "get stuffed" attitude about 'demands of proof'.
Garia666
CyberShield Inc
HYDRA RELOADED
#105 - 2011-09-29 08:16:02 UTC
hehe what do you expect.. goons are a rotten bunch of ppl who need to jump over on the new starwars game..
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#106 - 2011-09-29 08:24:20 UTC
Isn't the bot report anonymous? The Mittani can say whatever the bloody hell he wants but people who report a bot with the easy to find "report a bot button" don't get flagged in any way so its a non issue.

Killing other blue's "because they where botting" is another issue though and clearly inside alliance diplo's channel. It makes for an unruly, difficult to prove feud that will impact the alliance negatively or at least corp/player relations inside the alliance, so I get that comment. It is basicly The Mittani's job to say stuff like that.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Tuggboat
Oneida Inc.
#107 - 2011-09-29 08:29:18 UTC
Since CCP works for Goonswarm, some feel there might be a conflict of interest and a have a lack of trust in the anonymity of the button.
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#108 - 2011-09-29 08:36:40 UTC
Just another reason never to return to 0.0.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
pussnheels
Viziam
#109 - 2011-09-29 09:31:27 UTC
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
Just another reason never to return to 0.0.


worse they have the audacity to complain that nullsec is broke and it is the fault of us highsecdwellers

Nah maybe it is indeed time for ccp to disband all those large nullsec alliances , confiscate and redistribute all their holdings and possesions
Yeah you can even do a great live event about it empire factions joining together to destroy powerfull nullsec alliances who have become a danger to the stability of the universe

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#110 - 2011-09-29 09:32:46 UTC
Goons, ruining everyone's game, every day


It's what we do best.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2011-09-29 09:41:56 UTC
The Apostle, have you ever considered that (a) nothing about this policy changed in a long time, (b) GSF is terrible at keeping secrets in general and (c) it would be very weird if there were not some CCP employees with alts in the CFC.

too lazy to write a wall of text, imagine it here

tl;dr everyone who cares is aware of the policies you cite and may have his own more or less informed interpretation of them. Do you think people like Sreegs were wearing blindfolds during their time in GSF? or were brainwashed to forget everything they ever knew about EVE when signing up with CCP?

(1) I am pretty sure CCP employees are well aware of (mostly informal) "blue code of silence"-style policies in major alliances and so far they didn't take any action against it - making the corp/alliance responsible for the conduct of its members in serious matters is always a slippery slope. You wouldn't want goons to move their bot alts into -A-, Atlas. or DRF renters, would you?

(2) As has been pointed out before - nobody can or will prevent you from reporting bots to CCP as long as you don't brag about it. But encouraging people to instigate witch-hunts or to report everyone farming their precious sanctums is to nobody's advantage...
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#112 - 2011-09-29 09:44:39 UTC
Headerman wrote:


Moving on from that, has there been any bot banned at all from no petition raised about it?

Has CCP banned bots from no leads what so ever? Think about it.

you might want to talk to some roidripper customers...
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#113 - 2011-09-29 09:46:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
So Goons have internal rules of conduct, who'd have thought!

You can be damn sure the exact same thing applies to all major alliances/blocs. Botting ISK is just too good, too easy and almost completely without repercussions if/when caught.

CCP needs to up the ante and hold space owners accountable for what transpires within their space.

Only then will bots become truly hunted prey.

On top of the personal warnings/bans, alliances should be hit with:
- First offence, a massive fine based on blown-out-of-proportion numbers that RIAA made so popular in the kangaroo court system of the colonies.
- Second offence, warnings to the entire leadership.
- Third offence, banning of leadership and forced dissolution of alliances involved.

There, fixed the botting problem. Next!


So, I apply to join a hostile alliance with 3 alts, set them off botting, then report them one at a time with my main. After the third report, the entire hostile alliance gets Haargoth'd, losing all of their sovereignty and assets, and all their leaders are banned, preventing them from co-ordinating any form of defence.

Yes, clearly there is no way this could ever be abused!

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#114 - 2011-09-29 09:50:49 UTC
Obviously not.

And captchas are effective at preventing bots while not ruining everybody's game.
Gregor Palter
#115 - 2011-09-29 09:51:26 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
So, I apply to join a hostile alliance with 3 alts, set them off botting, then report them one at a time with my main. After the third report, the entire hostile alliance gets Haargoth'd, losing all of their sovereignty and assets, and all their leaders are banned, preventing them from co-ordinating any form of defence.

Yes, clearly there is no way this could ever be abused!


I thought Goons liked lulz like that, or is that only if it happens to others?

Excuses are the refuge of the weak.

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#116 - 2011-09-29 10:05:31 UTC
Considering corporations profit from certain botting activities too (through corp taxes) I would only be fair if the CEO shared an equal part of the punishment every time one of his corp members were caught botting (10% tax, 10% punishment).

Of course, 10% of a permanent ban is still a permanent ban...

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#117 - 2011-09-29 10:30:59 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
So, I apply to join a hostile alliance with 3 alts, set them off botting, then report them one at a time with my main. After the third report, the entire hostile alliance gets Haargoth'd, losing all of their sovereignty and assets, and all their leaders are banned, preventing them from co-ordinating any form of defence.

Yes, clearly there is no way this could ever be abused!

Sure, if CCP takes your word at face value, automates the entire system, doesn't investigate anything and talks to no one but you .. that would indeed be the result. There is of course the little matter of you being banned as well, since CCP is perfectly capable of tracing the ownership of alts

So you see, the more likely outcome of that scenario is that the alliance gets "keep vigilant" speech and Eve is awarded with one less goon.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#118 - 2011-09-29 10:55:17 UTC
Kitty McKitty wrote:
I think this Goonswarm Federation take the game a bit too seriously.


Hard truth, and sublime (if rather obvious) irony:

The goons (a name I deem unworthy of capitalisation) have become everything they professed to be against, once. They are not even good enough to be a bad joke, anymore.

But then, RMT for pixel-territory pixel-combat in pixel-spaceships = SRS BZNS!!!!

What happened to the Goons, man...?

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#119 - 2011-09-29 11:08:10 UTC
Zirse wrote:

Your tears are delicious.

In a game where everyone bots; the only thing left to do is bot. Seriously, the onus is on CCP to fix the game, not the players.


Fallacy of false consensus, used to justify doing what is explicitly defined as wrong, a definition you explicitly accepted and affirmed to submit to when you clicked "I agree" to the EULA when you first installed the client, and and further justifying it by shifting blame for it onto others:

"It's not my fault/my choice to be/my responsibility for being a useless parasite/drain on (EVE-)society, I'm that way because society's broken and doesn't get fixed, it's their fault!"

What a sad, scared, empty little person you must be, to have this mind-set.

Post with your main, you creeping, skulking coward.

Or better yet, just biomass your characters and get the **** out of our game, squirming maggot.

(Don't blame me, I voted for the Suddenly Ninjas guy for CSM 6--can we have the Mynxee-chaired CSM 5 back, please?)

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#120 - 2011-09-29 11:10:16 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
So, I apply to join a hostile alliance with 3 alts, set them off botting, then report them one at a time with my main. After the third report, the entire hostile alliance gets Haargoth'd, losing all of their sovereignty and assets, and all their leaders are banned, preventing them from co-ordinating any form of defence.

Yes, clearly there is no way this could ever be abused!

Sure, if CCP takes your word at face value, automates the entire system, doesn't investigate anything and talks to no one but you .. that would indeed be the result. There is of course the little matter of you being banned as well, since CCP is perfectly capable of tracing the ownership of alts


Yes you're right, of course, its completely impossible to disguise your identity on the internet.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.