Jita Park Speakers Corner

I'm just going to leave this here for all to see:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1008590#post1008590

Interesting.

What you're really trying to say is that little incidences really don't matter, only the big ones. So while we allow "tear collecting" to go on behind our backs, humiliating victims right and left, once someone in a sufficiently high enough place of power does it, it actually becomes a problem. The Mittani's only real problem is that he picked on someone who used suicide to bargain sympathy and he's a famous person in an alliance that is, according to its detractors, trying to ruin the game.

Step down Issler. The fact you are trying to spin this story to further you own personal gain and political position makes you a hypocrite. If you really had the players hearts and minds in consideration and you really knew anything about how pvp and EVE works you would know this happens all the time and this was quite tame to some of the stuff that goes on. You are completely oblivious to the facts that what Mittani said was in fact very very tame.

Griefing other players for being terrible in game or for shedding tears over their losses is every pvp players right. Its what keeps us coming back for more and more kills. Its what makes this game great and it doesnt just happen here. It happens in every single MMO FPS RTS multiplayer game out there. What about all the little 12 year old kids screaming obscenities while playing MW3 on XBOX360? Giving people grief is what makes pvp fun and enjoyable and its our right to do so. Anyone who doubts otherwise is a hypocrite or has never pvped before in their life. Everyone who pvp's in game is guilty of it sometime or another. All the alliances corporations regardless of who they are have done this and far worse than this in the past.

So get off your high throne of moral judgement because obviously you dont know what happens at all in this game or others or even in pvp for that matter.

You are either a high sec carebear who has never done pvp in their life or you are a hypocrite because everyone who has pvped in EVE has done this. Go take a look on kugu or evenews24 or any 3rd party site or hell even in CAOD on the forums. This was quite tame. The only ones who through an outrage were the prudes who are oblivious to this happening in games or people who just want to see Mittani go down in a fire and are using this to throw fuel on the fire for their own personal gain.

If anyone needs to step down for corrupting what the CSM stands for and for not representing the community and how it works it should be you Issler.

All these threads are disgusting. Mittani has done nothing different than what any other pvp playing person would have done in the same situation. EVE needs Mittani as the CSM head. It was Mittani that helped get the players thoughts about Incarna to CCP and helped turned it around. He has brought more pressing issues to the front table than any other CSM chairman yet. Its an insult to the playerbase to see you using this to further yourself when everyone who pvps knows they would have done the same thing in the same situation. It was funny even the victim the Wis knows it was and laughs about it now and doesnt care anymore. So drop the discussion already he apologized although he really shouldn't have in my opinion but whatever.

Personal attacks? Really? 6 years ago I believed that the goons in general would have grown up by now. The culture has proven far too insular for that.

Back to the subject, please. Issler, mad props for actually taking a stand. The rest of the CSM really ought to have that same quality. It's a damn shame that they don't. Get out from behind the curtain, CSM.

As to the state of things, it's pretty simple. The moment the media picked up on what Alex said, CCP contacted him and said something along the likes of, "Dude, we could be in really hot water if a lawsuit comes our way now, especially if people actually do what you suggested, and even more especially if the guy actually hurts himself. We need you to apologize and make nice or else we'll have to ask you to step down. If the waters calm down after that, we might not have to remove you from the CSM." So, Alex promptly apologizes, bribes the guy with 10bil ISK (surprised at how public the bribe was!), and now everyone over at CCP and in the CSM is just waiting for everyone to forget about it. We won't.

Issler, don't back down. Not on this specific issue, anyway.

Grats, you just picked up a bunch of votes for CSM 8 that you wouldn't have otherwise.

Nice to see a CSM member be forthright, honest and act with integrity. Lord knows the rest of that rabble are sitting around keeping silent because they are not leaders, but followers.

After the rash of horrible comments the goons made when he posted this in the other thread Im not longer looking for Alex to just step down from the CSM.

He needs to be banned.

Nobody really cares what you're looking for.

While this does clearly indicate who was proven wrong, I do not think your logic is sound. Or his logic, rather, since you're just the messenger.

I'm trying not to post anymore in this thread because I think I've been pretty clear in where I stand.

But fair question, how did I come to where I am now?

" A lot of folks may not find just the apology enough. Either way, you took the right first step." from my post you reference.

At first I thought an apology, that should be enough. As I began to think about where that leaves us and I finally found the panel video my position evolved based on the following:

- Several mittens comments and tweets made me doubt the sincerity of the apology, particularly the "I didn't remember I did it because I was blacked out drunk". Even when you are drunk and stupid you need to "own" what you did.

- I realized this was pre-planned act staged in a sober state. He had to know what he was doing when he made the slides.

- I realized that if Mittens isn't punished beyond some public apology the player confidence in the CSM would plummet and all the gains made recently would evaporate.

- I realized the if CCP didn't take action the reputation of Eve outside the game would also be diminished (or even reinforced as game for sociopaths). Players would also wonder how CCP is so irregular in the actions sanctioning player misdeeds. A fair claim of favoritism will be made.

- At a minimum I felt every member of the CSM should go on the record as individuals to the players decrying this unacceptable behavior.

I have evolved my position to say it is up to each CSM member to decide if they need to take a stand or not. I felt I needed to so here we are. I still think the apology was the right first step but I no longer think that is all that is required.

I hope that clears it up.

Issler

Out of interest, are you content with what has happened (his declination of chair), and are you prepared to move forward with the CSM and work for the benefit of the game? Or are you going to sit in the corner with Darius crying about not getting chair, demanding Mittens removal from the CSM altogether and thus opening yourself up to relentless trolling?