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Caldari Navy Raven or Caldari Navy Scorpion?
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Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#1 - 2012-04-23 08:48:52 UTC
Hi guys,

I keep going on my plans of getting a stable L4 mission income while upgrading my skills for later PvP warfare, and I practice frig PvP in my little kestrel / merlin.

Now i'm at the point where my Drake can pwn all L3 missions without ever caring for triggers with its impressive passive tank, so i'm training to get my first BS for L4 missions.

So my question is... should I get a Caldari Navy Raven or Caldari Navy Scorpion? CNR is much more expensive, and I can't see it is way better, and the CNS has the same bonuses as the drake, so I think you can do a "drake like" passive buff shield tank instead of relying on active shield like in the Raven.

Any advices?
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#2 - 2012-04-23 09:00:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanthra
Otrebla Utrigas wrote:
Hi guys,

I keep going on my plans of getting a stable L4 mission income while upgrading my skills for later PvP warfare, and I practice frig PvP in my little kestrel / merlin.

Now i'm at the point where my Drake can pwn all L3 missions without ever caring for triggers with its impressive passive tank, so i'm training to get my first BS for L4 missions.

So my question is... should I get a Caldari Navy Raven or Caldari Navy Scorpion? CNR is much more expensive, and I can't see it is way better, and the CNS has the same bonuses as the drake, so I think you can do a "drake like" passive buff shield tank instead of relying on active shield like in the Raven.

Any advices?


CNR more gank than tank

SNI more tank than gank.


CNR puts out more damage to kill stuff faster. SNI will have a better tank....but it needs it since its kills stuff slower. Wrecks don't fire back lol. Pick your flavor of combat here.

SNI also is an active tanker. Its does not passive tank like drake. If youy like that tank style, rattler. The secret to the passive "drake" tank is a natural ship stat that boosts shield regen. Nighthawk, drake and rattlesnake have this stat buitl in. Ships that don't do not regen as fast.

Also SNI (or CNR but this issue will affect your passive SNI idea more) will be your intro to the world of cruise missiles. A key ingredient of passive tank is lots of purge rigs or cdfe. Your drake ran well like this since heavy missiles hit medium size targets decent. Cruise missiles don't give you that luxury. All your passive tank rigs....you will lose them. In favor of flare or rigor rigs. No flare/rigor and you hit ships like utter ass. Making missions more difficult than they need to be. Welcom to cruise missiles lol.
Stenhardt
Black Lagoon Inc.
#3 - 2012-04-23 09:17:54 UTC
i would get a rattlesnake if i where you=P.
Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#4 - 2012-04-23 09:50:00 UTC
Stenhardt wrote:
i would get a rattlesnake if i where you=P.

Training the required skills will take me so much time, that I could instead train for tengu.

But thanks for the advice, I didn't know that ships even existed :D
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-04-23 10:08:01 UTC
It's not entirely true that a CNR does more damage/ kill stuff faster than a SNI.

because of the tank an the mids slots a SNI can always dedicate it's riggs towards it's launchers, it's midslots make it possible to fit a second target painter killing smaller targets faster. and it's easier to fit a AB as well, not unuseful in many missions with larges distances between the gates.

And it 's cheaper to fit it and run missions in it.

And it looks better than the Raven

That said in the end the CNR is probably better but only by a nose lenght
Dig Ito
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-04-23 10:09:02 UTC
If you are refering to Drone Skills, keep in mind that every t1 BS should have a flight of Hammerhead IIs with Drone Interfacing to IV , just saying Big smile
Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#7 - 2012-04-23 10:42:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Stetson Eagle
In the current state of things training cruise missiles is a waste - the dps is plain lackluster even on CNR. I'd give serious thought to Tengu which is fast to train for and does it all fairly well.

The difference between the two mentioned ships are:
CNR: Good dps from missiles.
SNI: Good dps from missiles and sentry drones, high tank potential.
Rattler: Mediocre dps from drones and missiles, extreme tank potential.
Golem: Excellent dps from torpedoes which require less missile support skills than cruise missiles. Salvage on the go.
Tengu: Very fast movement compared to all the rest, jack of all trades, good dps from missiles, excellent dps from HAM's.

The Rattlesnake is probably going to become very good with the potential drone damage mod in the future, but training decent sentry drones takes almost 3 months.
Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#8 - 2012-04-23 10:50:09 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
It's not entirely true that a CNR does more damage/ kill stuff faster than a SNI.

because of the tank an the mids slots a SNI can always dedicate it's riggs towards it's launchers, it's midslots make it possible to fit a second target painter killing smaller targets faster. and it's easier to fit a AB as well, not unuseful in many missions with larges distances between the gates.

And it 's cheaper to fit it and run missions in it.

And it looks better than the Raven

That said in the end the CNR is probably better but only by a nose lenght


This is in fact true, but requires the SNI to use sentry drones as well as missiles. This leaves little utility for killing frigates except for being keen with the sentries and rat transversal, making the potentially good SNI a pain to fly in gankfit compared to CNR.

I consider both ships lackluster - the SNI has a price advantage but that's it. CNR can be used as a massive DPS pump in torp fit for nullsec anoms (forsaken hubs mainly) but that requires a logistics alt.

Pvp is a completely different matter. The SNI makes for an excellent bait in both armor and shield setup and CNR pushes out pretty nasty dps where needed (carrier kill fleets etc).
Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#9 - 2012-04-23 10:51:22 UTC
Stetson Eagle wrote:
In the current state of things training cruise missiles is a waste - the dps is plain lackluster even on CNR. I'd give serious thought to Tengu which is fast to train for and does it all fairly well.

The difference between the two mentioned ships are:
CNR: Good dps from missiles.
SNI: Good dps from missiles and sentry drones, high tank potential.
Rattler: Mediocre dps from drones and missiles, extreme tank potential.
Golem: Excellent dps from torpedoes which require less missile support skills than cruise missiles. Salvage on the go.
Tengu: Very fast movement compared to all the rest, jack of all trades, good dps from missiles, excellent dps from HAM's.

The Rattlesnake is probably going to become very good with the potential drone damage mod in the future, but training decent sentry drones takes almost 3 months.

I know, the difference is I can fly a BS and do L4 missions in 5 days, but I can't fly a tengu until 3 or 4 months.

Don't be afraid, I'M GOING to train to tengu someday (after I had finished training for AF, cov ops and ceptors). But I just want L4 mission income meanwhile :D
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-04-23 16:09:35 UTC
For beginner, I always recommend starting with navy scorpion. You can always later buy navy raven from lp store.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Kalli Brixzat
#11 - 2012-04-24 04:11:26 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
For beginner, I always recommend starting with navy scorpion. You can always later buy navy raven from lp store.


Good advice. It will be hard to lose your SNI in any L4 mission unless you're careless with triggers and aggro entire pockets. Even then, you have a good chance of surviving.

CNR has the higher damage potential due to the extra launcher, which will make missions faster. If you're willing to drop a couple billion on your CNR, you can deadspace your tank and be nigh invincible.

If money is an issue, get the SNI. If you have isk to burn, go for the CNR.
Tikera Tissant
#12 - 2012-04-24 04:12:21 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
For beginner, I always recommend starting with navy scorpion. You can always later buy navy raven from lp store.


I agree, but I wouldn't get one from LP store P

For a BS starter, best to go to a SNI first, as its tank will make missions easy.
Once you feel comfortable and your weapon skills and supporting skills gets higher and better, you can go to a CNR and do the missions faster.
Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#13 - 2012-04-24 07:10:02 UTC
Thanks all for your replies. I'm gonna start with the SNI and then the CNR when i have enough money for it.
AstarothPrime
Pecunia Infinita
#14 - 2012-04-24 07:16:50 UTC
I still regret training caldari BS 5 and cruise missile specs... raven is c.r.a.p.

Only thing good about caldari BullShit 5 is fixed rokh, but i need some rail skills now.

Try some of the following in stead:

1) Tengu
2) Navy geddon
3) Apoc
4) Machariel
5) Arty maelstrom
6) Ubertanked abaddon

You wont regret it

I.
July Oumis
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-04-24 09:13:26 UTC  |  Edited by: July Oumis
[Raven Navy Issue, EM / Therm]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Dread Guristas Heat Dissipation Field
Dread Guristas Photon Scattering Field
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5


Applies most of your DPS, burst tank. Use NPC spec hardeners. This is an Example for Sansha / Blood.
Tengu is better against Serp Guri, but with the Raven you have the advantage to hit for every Resist with the same damage using the right missiles.

Forget Torps, forget cap stable tanking. This Fit requires a good amount of training and tactics. It also is far far away from any dumbstable, overtanked "afk" fitting
Kieron VonDeux
#16 - 2012-04-24 15:53:16 UTC
AstarothPrime wrote:
...Only thing good about caldari BullShit 5 is fixed rokh,...


It's also good for the Nightmare.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-04-24 17:20:23 UTC
AstarothPrime wrote:
I still regret training caldari BS 5 and cruise missile specs... raven is c.r.a.p.

Only thing good about caldari BullShit 5 is fixed rokh, but i need some rail skills now.

Try some of the following in stead:

1) Tengu
2) Navy geddon
3) Apoc
4) Machariel
5) Arty maelstrom
6) Ubertanked abaddon

You wont regret it

I.

Not sure if trolling.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Vaktaren
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-04-25 07:47:11 UTC
Having flown both, I find the SNI my favourite, it's slightly more flexible and massively less ugly. You can do a 3 TP or 2 TP or 1 TP fit depending on the missions, giving more tank or more ability to hit small things. With 3 TP's those missions with lots of frigs go much faster than just using drones.

Also the SNI is cheaper. If you have lower skills it is better since you can up the tank and just do the missions slower, less likely to loose your ship when you haven't built up the isk to buy a new one.
11eyes
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-04-25 10:44:09 UTC
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
AstarothPrime wrote:
...Only thing good about caldari BullShit 5 is fixed rokh,...


It's also good for the Nightmare.


and the rattlesnake
Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#20 - 2012-04-25 16:01:13 UTC
You could try this.

My Raven was equipped with the following:

HIGH
06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I
01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1
01 x SALVAGER I

MEDIUM
04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS
01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM
01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER

LOW
01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL
01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I
01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I
02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I

DRONES
02 x WARRIOR I DRONES
03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES

UPGRADES
01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I
01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I
01 x HYDRAULIC BAY THRUSTER I
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