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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Sub forum exclusively for paying customers

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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#41 - 2012-04-23 13:37:50 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Whitehound wrote:
Answer me a question, what does money mean to you and why do you choose not to give some to CCP?

This is where your ignorance shines through.

Why do people buy PLEX? Because they want to trade them for isk.

Who buys PLEX from those poeple? People like me.

*I* give PLEX its value. Without me and thousands others like me, there would be no market for PLEX and CCP could not sell them. My contribution to CCP's wallet is adding to the demand which motivates others to buy enough PLEX to cover my subscriptions. They get their subscription fees from me, it's simply generated by a different means.

As for what money means to me: it's a way to get stuff I want. I'm able to get Eve without it, allowing me to put that money to other purposes. But my frugality offends you somehow, and you believe you are entitled to special treatment because you spend a whopping $15 a month to play and have no understanding of the economics of the game.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#42 - 2012-04-23 13:52:34 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
The assumption you are talking off was a response to Robert Caldera, who mixed player experience with money. It simply does not mix and any logic based on it will fail. How PLEX works or even if I fail to understand it is of no relevance for creating a sub forum. Try not too read too much into it. It still is only a suggestion to create a sub forum exclusively for paying customers.

You fail to understand the nature of plex. If space rich players didn't buy plex, poor players wouldn't spend real money on it. If rich players unsubscribe from Eve, poor players stop buying and selling plex. If rich players unsubscribe from Eve, CCP loses money.

Are you understanding this yet? People who buy plex are paying customers. Other than creating a sub-forum for people who don't understand enough of Eve's game mechanics to spend 500m ISK a month, your idea achieves nothing.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#43 - 2012-04-23 14:09:04 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
bla bla bla

No. You fail to understand that this is of no relevance. Just like a sack of rise falling over somewhere in China is of no relevance to the creation of a sub forum.

Are you working to be this stupid or does it come naturally? Please stop, sit down for a bit, and try to think through the economic implications of the PLEX system yet. If the stuff these posters doesn't suddenly click, you haven't thought about it hard enough.

Here's a few simple points for you:
PLEX cost ~$17, subscriptions cost $15
For every PLEX bought, it has to be used by someone, otherwise it's worthless
People use PLEX for their accounts because they have RL financial commitments or know the game well enough to make the ISK for PLEX
Knowing the game well enough to make 500M/month doesn't make you a bad poster, quite the opposite
Elitism, on any level, is a bad thing in societies. And is a particularly stupid idea in this case because most of the worst posters are paying with their credit cards

Here's the sort version for you: CCP makes more money for every PLEX player than it does for every credit card player.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#44 - 2012-04-23 14:18:43 UTC
This is a dumb idea.

Someone's method of paying for the game does not appreciably change the opinions they express on the forum. My own forumwarrioring has not changed significantly in the last two months that I have begun paying in PLEX rather than real money. You are not special.

I could make a very similar argument for creating a PLEXers-only forum (we play the game enough/are knowledgable enough to pay for our sub in ISK), but it would be similarly elitist and pointless.
Whitehound
#45 - 2012-04-23 14:33:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Kahega Amielden wrote:
I could make a very similar argument for creating a PLEXers-only forum (we play the game enough/are knowledgable enough to pay for our sub in ISK), but it would be similarly elitist and pointless.

This is the same idea, only will you have to make all the existing forum sections inaccessible. It is not what I am suggesting.

I understand the objections and your fears that you would be missing out on something. It is however necessary to give a voice to the paying players who with their money carry the company and with it the game.

Any free-to-play arguments are of no use, because the game existed long before there was a free-to-play and as we have learned is at risk of growing further, because of the protest by paying customers.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#46 - 2012-04-23 14:42:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
still a terribad idea.
No class system for players should be introduced to forums, everyone who plays matters equally regardless how they pay their playtime.

This "paying customer" is a massive bullshit anyways, everyone who plays is one because its how PLEX come into game - a PLEX is always paid by someone with RL money. So if I've got enough ISK I dont know where to spend anyways, why then not save RL money and let someone else with less ISK pay for me, this doesnt make me less relevant.
On the other hand there are enough people who simply cant afford spending RL money on the game, so they grind their ISK and buy PLEX for ISK - those people arent less releavant either.

-> awful idea is awful.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-04-23 14:50:33 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
I could make a very similar argument for creating a PLEXers-only forum (we play the game enough/are knowledgable enough to pay for our sub in ISK), but it would be similarly elitist and pointless.

This is the same idea, only will you have to make all the existing forum sections inaccessible. It is not what I am suggesting.

I understand the objections and your fears that you would be missing out on something. It is however necessary to give a voice to the paying players who with their money carry the company and with it the game.

Any free-to-play arguments are of no use, because the game existed long before there was a free-to-play and as we have learned is at risk of growing further, because of the protest by paying customers.

Actualy the majority of us paying customers have no qualms about people who pay with plex. I actualy encourage people to try to plex their accounts. (I don't plex my accounts but only because I like imaginary space money more than RL money)
Whitehound
#48 - 2012-04-23 14:52:15 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
still a terribad idea.
No class system for players should be introduced to forums, everyone who plays matters equally regardless how they pay their playtime.

Which is how we all became cashcows and freeloaders, because one can matter only so much.

It is the way of the industry. It may not be like this with games, but the opinions of shareholders to a company do get recognized. It does not mean they are always right. However, companies had to learn the hard way that ignoring those people who take a financial interest in them also posses power over them.

What do you suggest to avoid players from protesting with their wallets? Or do you not care?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#49 - 2012-04-23 14:52:18 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Actualy the majority of us paying customers have no qualms about people who pay with plex. I actualy encourage people to try to plex their accounts. (I don't plex my accounts but only because I like imaginary space money more than RL money)

I, too, support the idea that more people should by PLEX with ISK. Make the prices go up even higher, so when I buy PLEX with RL money, I get more bang for my buck (literally).

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Liam Mirren
#50 - 2012-04-23 14:53:38 UTC
Stop trying to reason with this clown, just wardec him and his fail alliance and tell him he can buy it off by giving you a plex. Then ask him if this transaction was good or bad for CCP.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#51 - 2012-04-23 14:58:10 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
still a terribad idea.
No class system for players should be introduced to forums, everyone who plays matters equally regardless how they pay their playtime.

Which is how we all became cashcows and freeloaders, because one can matter only so much.

It is the way of the industry. It may not be like this with games, but the opinions of shareholders to a company do get recognized. It does not mean they are always right. However, companies had to learn the hard way that ignoring those people who take a financial interest in them also posses power over them.

What do you suggest to avoid players from protesting with their wallets? Or do you not care?


but for everyone who buys PLEX for ISK, REAL MONEY HAS FLOWED!
If players protest with their wallets and dont buy PLEX anymore, those who paid RL money for them with intentions of selling them for ISK, suddenly dont get any ISK, get pis*ed and dont buy PLEX anymore for real money. In the same time those who are protesting with the wallets, would have to buy gametime for themselves and spend money on it.
So what is the problem exactly?
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#52 - 2012-04-23 14:59:58 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
So what is the problem exactly?

OP doesn't get to feel smug and superior for being wealthy IRL.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Whitehound
#53 - 2012-04-23 15:04:30 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
So what is the problem exactly?

You try to fight what has not happened yet. I try to fight what did happen.

You want me to believe that it is worth to stop playing EVE by not buying PLEX with ISKs, because you cannot get access to a new forum section?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Liam Mirren
#54 - 2012-04-23 15:07:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Liam Mirren
Robert Caldera wrote:
So what is the problem exactly?


It's based on the false premise that subs are better for CCP than plex paid accounts, which they're not. Another premise is that people who pay RL cash somehow are more knowledgeable on EVE and thus should have their voice heard more. Thing is OP clearly pays with RL cash but is an ingame idiot, I pay with plex and know wtf I'm doing so using these two samples it's obvious that this premise is completely wrong.

OP has no case, is an idiot and doesn't want to learn logic, that's the exact problem.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#55 - 2012-04-23 15:14:42 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
So what is the problem exactly?


It's based on the false premise that subs are better for CCP than plex paid accounts, which they're not. Another premise is that people who pay RL cash somehow are more knowledgeable on EVE and thus should have their voice heard more. Thing is OP clearly pays with RL cash but is an ingame idiot, I pay with plex and know wtf I'm doing so using these two samples it's obvious that this premise is completely wrong.

OP has no case, is an idiot and doesn't want to learn logic, that's the exact problem.


agree
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-04-23 15:19:07 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
So what is the problem exactly?


It's based on the false premise that subs are better for CCP than plex paid accounts, which they're not. Another premise is that people who pay RL cash somehow are more knowledgeable on EVE and thus should have their voice heard more. Thing is OP clearly pays with RL cash but is an ingame idiot, I pay with plex and know wtf I'm doing so using these two samples it's obvious that this premise is completely wrong.

OP has no case, is an idiot and doesn't want to learn logic, that's the exact problem.

Inbound wardec?
Whitehound
#57 - 2012-04-23 15:25:44 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Inbound wardec?

I am a trader. The alliance and corporation is all my own. I can sit out any war dec, just so you know.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Liam Mirren
#58 - 2012-04-23 15:29:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Liam Mirren
Whitehound wrote:
I am a trader. The alliance and corporation is all my own.


Thanks for that extra info, I figured the corp that joined you recently wasn't affiliated but it's good to know that they are.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#59 - 2012-04-23 15:30:01 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
Inbound wardec?

I am a trader. The alliance and corporation is all my own. I can sit out any war dec, just so you know.

For a trader your grasp of economic theory is shocking.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2012-04-23 15:31:50 UTC
so your toon never undocks?
Or you have a bunch of alts that you pay for with RL money?

If you fly industrials as part of your trading, you'd better watch out.