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My blog post on the POS rewrite + discussion

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Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#21 - 2012-04-26 15:02:55 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Two step wrote:
http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2012/04/my-vision-for-poses.html I wrote a blog post on what I would like to see as high level design goals for a POS rewrite, which will likely be a major topic at the next CSM summit.


I particularly like "Scalable". 1-man mini POS have long been a hobby-horse of mine. I would suggest that they be unable to mount offensive weapons and be anchorable anywhere that there isn't another POS, outpost or gate on grid. However they should be dockable (with a strict limit on the volume of ships that can be stored in them). At a stroke you have then introduced player housing, which is one of the best hooks for getting people involved in an MMO.

I strongly, strongly suggest that you exert maximum pressure on CCP to make mini POS customisable in appearance.


I totally agree that you should be able to customize the appearance of nPOSes. These are your homes, why wouldn't you be able to make them look good. I think the modular POS concept gets you some of the way there, and then you could imagine releasing parts for the POS with pirate faction skins (gurista ship hangar, etc.)

Mashie Saldana wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
OH just in case this old favourite has been forgotten - allow abandoned (offline) POS to be accessed with Hacking skill (even if it takes Hacking V, that's fine)

My alt would love that feature.

Maybe even initiate an unachoring cycle that could take a few days just to give the owner a chance to return.


Yeah, something would need to be done about the offline nPOSes. I'm not sure what the exact mechanics should be though, but that is really the sort of thing that is up to CCP. The role of the CSM is to say stuff like "You need to be able to deal with offline new POSes" and CCP will come up with a solution.

discordigant wrote:
Firstly thankyou for diving into this problem, any upgrades to this system would be valued.


Allowing the creation of extra tabs of storage with assigned member use for individual use in CH's and SMA's would be the ultimate goal for security.


I would also like to see in C1's a tower size restriction to medium or small, or change the mass limitations on C1's to end this madness of reaction systems living untouched with relative safety for the logistical nightmare they pose to mess with.

EDIT: And god yes a way to remove old towers without shooting at them for a wrist slashing amount of time.

The T3 subs issue needs to be fixed.

I would also like to see WH folk having the ability to change clones on the fly to suit situations (Not proposing jump cloning in and out of WH's that's just bad apple sauce) but the ability to do what every other player base in this game has the option to do. PVE and PVP sets.


I agree that it would be good to limit future POS sizes in smaller class wormholes. Private storage and T3 subs would be solved by allowing docking. Switching clones is something that should be allowed for *everyone*, and if it is something you can do while docked, I would expect it to be available in a new POS system.

(more responses in the next post)

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#22 - 2012-04-26 15:10:01 UTC
Kyros Xero wrote:
I can definitely agree with your posted goals - all important things to accomplish with any POS rewrite.

In particular I like the idea of having parts of POS' be vulnerable to small gangs and creating pvp opportunities, however I'm curious if you have any thoughts on how to accomplish that while still allowing the POS to have meaningful defenses against larger groups?



In general, the exact mechanics are best left up to CCP to design. I was picturing something like allowing people to hack into manufacturing arrays and steal minerals/BPCs, delay jobs or maybe even with enough time cancel them. As for defenses, I am not sure I would want to see even the current level of automated guns in a new POS system. My preference would be very limited automatic defenses, but if you have people present you would be able to bring more potent manual defenses to bear.

Camios wrote:
It could be cool if the pos system were designed with "public poses" in mind, like POCOs.

I remember when there ISS ouposts access was set public, it would be cool if the new system were designed in order to make this policy convenient.

Another unrelated thing: the efficiency of refining modules could be revised...


Yup, I totally support something like this for a long range goal. Especially if you want people to be able to replace NPC stations, I would love to see the ability to rent out hangar space and manufacturing slots to the public. I would totally support a new improved refining system as part of this, especially since the current one doesn't make a lot of sense ("why do I have to go run missions with my refiner? All I want to do is mine!")

Kelvan Hemanseh wrote:
A question for you here Two Step, enabling docking in a POS along with these other upgrades seems to marginalize outposts. If POSes got these upgrade what would you have done to outposts so they retain some role?


Ideally, I would like to see these replace outposts. I don't think having a bunch of invulnerable stations that will eventually be in every 0.0 system is good for the game. 0.0 should be the highest risk in the game (and offer the highest rewards) which is not currently the case.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-04-26 16:10:29 UTC
I always liked the idea of a 'structure' that has two paths when a player anchors it. One would be the dynamic modular process of turning it into something very similar to the player stations in null now. Vast and robust with no guns for defenses. Thus over time they could be killed given a long enough bombardment from the enemy.

The other path would be something on a smaller scale that is a modular POS that too can be blown up over a shorter time, but has the weapon systems to help protect it.


Two Step - I will say that your idea of a new POS seems to want to mimic pretty closely to the stations we have now. The whole walking around, hangers, etc. I always felt POS life should be like living in tents around a camp fire (more nomadic lifestyle) and actual stations be like having an actual house. I am not sure a station and a POS should be too close in function.

Maybe a list of what you believe a POS and a station should and should not be able to do? Also what is your opinion on structure mails? Like many things in this game, there is how something is intended and how it really is functioning. What is your thoughts on the matter?
discordigant
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-04-28 00:42:11 UTC  |  Edited by: discordigant
Two step wrote:


discordigant wrote:
Firstly thankyou for diving into this problem, any upgrades to this system would be valued.


Allowing the creation of extra tabs of storage with assigned member use for individual use in CH's and SMA's would be the ultimate goal for security.


I would also like to see in C1's a tower size restriction to medium or small, or change the mass limitations on C1's to end this madness of reaction systems living untouched with relative safety for the logistical nightmare they pose to mess with.

EDIT: And god yes a way to remove old towers without shooting at them for a wrist slashing amount of time.

The T3 subs issue needs to be fixed.

I would also like to see WH folk having the ability to change clones on the fly to suit situations (Not proposing jump cloning in and out of WH's that's just bad apple sauce) but the ability to do what every other player base in this game has the option to do. PVE and PVP sets.


I agree that it would be good to limit future POS sizes in smaller class wormholes. Private storage and T3 subs would be solved by allowing docking. Switching clones is something that should be allowed for *everyone*, and if it is something you can do while docked, I would expect it to be available in a new POS system.




(more responses in the next post)


Thanks for the response, I do stand by having tower size limitations on C1's as it is unbalanced, but not C2's and 3's that has been rumored lately. They are easy enough to evict as they stand we should not have a dread mentality to towers in every hole.

EDIT: Also the only gripe i would have with the cabins quarter docking in a POS idea is that when someone is sitting at a POS waiting you out we can see them now, so you should be able to see who is docked up.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-04-29 00:04:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Malcanis wrote:
OH just in case this old favourite has been forgotten - allow abandoned (offline) POS to be accessed with Hacking skill (even if it takes Hacking V, that's fine)

+10 bloody thousand!

Also (don't mind me...): /beginrant: NO SD'ing INSIDE POS SHIELDS!
/endrant...

Pirate

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Erik Finnegan
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
#26 - 2012-04-30 10:22:17 UTC
I think it had been commented on Two Step's blog post: what about setting the ground for nPOSes to also replace the NPC stations as market place ?

Maybe in a first step, contract creation should be allowed on items at nPOSes. Then, later, introduce market orders. NPC station market place item capacity could then be capped as an ultimate step, with market sell order fees taking into account the hangar space available at the station.

While this would potentially make markets more vulnerable to attacks like #burnjita, but on the other hand the market could evolve independently from NPC stations.
Ravan Hekki
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-04-30 10:43:32 UTC
Can here expecting a sensible discussion of somthing important, for once i'm suprised to find im not disapointed.

Dockable scalable POS's are a must and as a WH dweller I think this is an awsome idea that is really needed. +1 sir +1.
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