Crime & Punishment

well said Malcanis.

I'd also add to your law in your signature something from RL

any promises or stated desires of politicians to 'save' the people or to protect them from something or somebody, by needing to pass new laws; is usually done to benefit the politicians themselves.

Cyber Bullying: "Cyberbullying" is when a child, preteen or teen(person) is tormented, threatened, harassed, humiliated, embarrassed or otherwise targeted by another child, preteen or teen using the Internet, interactive and digital technologies or mobile phones. It has to have a minor on both sides, or at least have been instigated by a minor against another minor. Once adults become involved, it is plain and simple cyber-harassment or cyberstalking. Adult cyber-harassment or cyberstalking is NEVER called cyberbullying.

So thats out of the way lets move on to cyber harassment or cyberstalking.

I dont know your real name hopefully you dont know mine.

Situation 1:
Ganking a miner is only determined by its tank, and your dps nothing else. Its like moving a piece in a game of checkers.
So I blow up your minning barge, and we go at it in local. Even if I post the chat logs on a forum, I still dont know your name and you dont know mine. Every one is anonymous.

Situation 2:
I post a naked picture of your mother in local, says she's a whore, and then I D you as who you are in real life in local.
THAT^ Is cyber harassment using the aforementioned definition. In that situation I didn't even have to undock to instigate, and If im not mistaken its a bannable offense if it pans out that really was a naked picture of your mum, and that really was your name.

Cyber bullying was a label applied by the gaming media after the mittani gate scandal to generate interest in there news sites. It cheapens the true definition of cyberbullying and the harm it can do, and besmirches our good name as a gaming community. Seriously If you want to back hello kitty online in hi sec thats great, but dont use this ill appropriated term to try and get your way, it wont work and it makes every one that plays eve, not just miners and gankers look bad.

Ganking miners in hi sec is not bullying of any kind in reality. If you never respond you both loose a ship and they get no tears.

Interesting point of view. Im sure that you know alot of gankers and their habbits so your statement must be 100% true? My point of view is abit different, because I kinda know few of these miner-gankers and I know their backgrounds in EVE. All of the guys who I know have played EVE for years and years. They have been PVPing in different forms almost from day one. They know their s*it and don't feel a need to prove their skills. They do it for fun.

Iam sure that you can find less challenging and more boring ways to PVP than ganking.

Animals usually don't have a choice. Miners in other hand have alot of choices but they choose to let them unused.

I have nothing against actual PVPers who occasionally go out ganking. Ganking keeps my profits up by weeding out the less adept miners. My beef is with the gankers who have no PVP skills and the only way they get kills is by ganking. Ganking does not make you a PVPer. This does not mean that all players who participate in ganking are gankers, i.e. fail PVPers, but the ones that can not get kills outside of ganking are not PVPers but just common gankers.

I guess if you do not understand what my view of what constitutes a ganker is, than you may have difficulty understanding my point of view. It was not the PVPers who occasionally gank that I was speaking of, but the players who think ganking is the same as PVP. The only less callenging more boring form of PVP I can think of is blobbing which I also hate. But the gankers I speak of would also be afraid of blobbing as there is still a chance they could die if they got primaried, also blobbing is not a form of grieving while ganking although not always grieving, can be, and often is, used for grieving.

Bugsy, I think the Idea that people who cant pvp gank, is an overgenarlization that stems from the idea that if I dont harm you in eve and you harm me for no reason you must be bad.

There are no moral's in eve. Most of the people who gank Ill bet do it for the kicks and because they think its funny not that they cant or wouldn't get fun from shooting some one who can shoot back, just like people who would **** around on Battlefield 3 with C4 and team kill. They get the same kicks from warping into a belt and out of the blue wasting a miner.

The problem with this idea is that even if your idea is true it says if your not an accomplished pvper you shouldnt gank, and also if you are you shouldnt gank because your out killing other pvper's. This essentially means no one should have a reason to gank miners. Im saying they dont need to have a reason to do it or a reason not to do something else instead of ganking.

A person isn't wrong because they ganked you or someone else. Its like you said, you know how to avoid it. Others shouldn't post tears they should live and learn. Getting ganked once should make a miner stronger on knowing how to avoid it next time.

"Pain with out tuition is wasted."

Its seems I am still not being clear on my position

I do not have a problem with ganking in general. There is and should be a certain amount of risk every time you undock your ship

My issue with gankers, in the context I described above is not so much the actual act of ganking but the impact excessive ganking, to the point of greiving has on MMO's. For example a level 80 character camping a pivotal quest point or spawn point repeatedly killing a character 20 or more levels below them until they log off, out of frustration.

This type of behavior ruins the enjoyment of the game for so many players that they start leaving the game. As the population drops the gankers have a harder and harder time finding targets and genereally become more and more agressive. Then they go on the forum crying about lack of PVP content when it is there own fault there is nobody left to kill. I have seen this happen in almost every other MMO I have played

In EVE this involves killing new players and carebears repeatedly until they quit. This is grieving. This is not good for the game as a whole, and eventually results in the games population decline and eventual death

Any MMO that can not sustain an influx of new players at least equal to the egress of players leaving, will experience population decline. Population decline is death for an MMO. The more the population declines the more noticeable it gets. The more noticeable it gets the more players leave, the more players leave the faster that decline becomes. It becomes a vicious cycle as an MMO without a decent population is not fun to play. far to many games have died within their first couple years due to this

The high death penalty in EVE combined with the fact that the longer you play gaining higher SP and more valuable equipment the more expensive that death penalty becomes is one of the main diferences in EVE. I believe this is the most important factor that has sustained EVE for almost 10 years. In my opinion the level of ganking currently experienced in EVE is well within acceptable limits, and is actually healthy for the game. But I also know from experience that if the ganking gets out of hand it could ruin the game

The removal of insurance payouts for those killed by CONCORD was a good move even though it's impact was slightly softened by the addition of the tier 3 BC's that can use large guns. No more insurrance but cheaper ships with the same BS level alfa. Like I said, in my opinion the ganking in EVE currently is at an acceptable healthy level, but if ganking was made easier it could quickly reach a level that could be harmful to the game

The recent and coming changes with regard to CONCORD responses to illegal activity in high sec should help keep this under control. However I have lost count of the number of threads I have read recently either asking for reduced penalties for ganking, or content to be added to force carebears into low sec. I believe such things could lead to an increase in ganking to a point where it becomes detrimental to the game. A resonable level of ganking is a healthy needed element of the game, but excessive ganking can quickly contribute to its downfall.

I think CCP has taken steps to ensure there is minimal returns and maximum costs involved in the typical ganking. However not to the point of removing it from game. As I said in my last post I believe some ganking is actually healthy for an MMO. I just fear it getting out of hand. In my opinion CCP is doing a good job in this respect. Ganking still happens, but not in a game breaking volume as many other PVP oriented MMO's have experienced before their decline and death.

I respect Noir, so it's sad to see such a moron counted amongst their ranks.

Here's the actual, legal definition of "cyberbullying":

Cyberbullying is the use of the Internet and related technologies to harm other people, in a deliberate, repeated, and hostile manner. It involves the use of information and communication technologies to support deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior.

So people who "shitpoast", repeatedly gank miners, use locator agents, "make it personal", convo, post said convo's on forums, etc... are cyberbullying. Period.

Thx now stop being an idiot; you're making Noir look bad, and they're a respectable group.

Don't think that this simple schizophrenic view is the right way to look at this. Because behind the ingame avatar there is a real person, who invested time, effort and money.
Of course this is a game, and one can loose, and also win sometimes. But if one is constantly harrassed by the same guy or group, possibly with the goal to drive this person out of the game - that for me is clearly bullying and/or griefing.

Why do I gank?

I like explosions. Sometimes it is nice to lose a ship once in a while while making those explosions. However whenever I fly into low sec with a cheap ship, people don't engage (maybe I haven't found the right low yet, suggestions would be nice).

I also like to see what the heaviest thing I can gank solo for the least amount of isk.

Oh and the third reason, though this isn't necessary, is I like to kill bots.


Now if you check a KB you'll find I am very bad at this. But its fun none the less.



Do I worry that the other person will feel bad? Not really. If they don't like getting blown up, there are measures that can be taken that will make it nearly impossible to be ganked. And if they think they should be able to mine in peace afk, they should find another game. Or keep doing what they are doing... but stop whining about it.