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So....does everyone have Desssie/BC V
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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2012-04-24 01:35:13 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Should I train Cruisers to IV or do you guys think it's cool leaving them on III, considering the new prerequisite might be IV (for BCs) I figured there's a chance they'll only give it out to people who have the racial Cruiser IV

The racial BC skill will have a prerequisite of racial cruiser IV, but going by the idea of being able to fly what you were before racial cruiser III will be sufficient. If you have all racial cruiser III and BC V, then you'll have all racial BC V. Cruiser IV will be needed to inject the racial BC skill, but it won't be needed to fly BCs themselves.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Eofina
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-04-24 05:56:52 UTC
I've had BC V for years, Destroyer V for nearly as long. Not to mention all 4 Cruisers to V.

None of this was done for free SP, but because I wanted to be a well rounded sub-cap pilot.
Dave stark
#43 - 2012-04-24 06:59:44 UTC
currently training battle cruisers to IV.

i was going to do it, at some point... the announcement just made me do it sooner rather than later.
Elmanketticks
In Fidem
Outsmarted
#44 - 2012-04-24 09:24:35 UTC
Concerning balance: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=898397#post898397

This might answer some questions (thx to Liang for the info gathering work):

Liang Nuren wrote:
...
Further addendum to help keep everyone up to date:

CCP Soundwave had this to say here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=898503#post898503

CCP Soundwave wrote:

We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place.


And again here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=898531#post898531

CCP Soundwave wrote:
We'll sit down and have a chat about it, but what we're looking to do is create a solid ship scheme, not take things away from people. You'll be reimbursed properly.


More info: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=898882#post898882

CCP Soundwave wrote:
No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up.


More! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=900335#post900335
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

...
Destroyer and Battlecruiser reimbursement: it has been said before, but allow us to repeat again, that we do not want to cut ships you can already fly. Thus, having BC skill at 5 would mean you get all four variations at 5....


This topic is thoroughly beat to death!

The latest on Reimbursement (but read the whole thing for seriously - tons of info):
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=908403#post908403

...
Q: Will all of these ship balancing changes be applied in one go for Inferno?

A: No, the nuance is we will begin this general ship balancing plan with Inferno. Not only trying to revamp everything for Inferno would require a massive commitment, but even if it was possible, doing so in one move would be quite risky as ship balancing is a delicate process.

That means we will proceed slowly, one step at a time, starting with the ship classes that need the most love (most likely tech 1 frigates and destroyers), then moving our way up. This blog is describing future vision changes in an effort to increase transparency. We definitely want to have more blogs, discussion and feedback along the way.
...

Q: With the skill changes, I will have to train for [racial cruiser V] and [racial battlecruiser V] to train for a Command Ship, how does that make it easier for me?
...

Example:
Before, training for a Harbinger required you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Cruiser 3 and Battlecruisers at 2
Before, training for an Absolution required you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Cruiser 5, Battlecruiser at 5 and Heavy Assault Ships at 4
Now, training for a Harbinger requires you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Destroyer 4, Amarr Cruiser 4 and then Amarr Battlecruiser at 1.
Now, training for an Absolution requires you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Destroyer 4, Amarr Cruiser 4 and Amarr Battlecruiser at 5. There is no more need for the Amarr Cruiser 5 and Heavy Assault Ship at 4.
...

The State will not fall. Join us. Fight. Conquer.

edit: disregard that, the state has fallen.
Lab MasterMind
Torpedo Industries
#45 - 2012-04-24 18:56:47 UTC
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
My logic was fine I will train every T1 ship...

So if racial BC@some level is a prereq for racial BS in new model why would you not just train all the racial BS skills? (What I did). This means you get all BC skills at the level required to get the corresponding racial BS which looks to be BC IV using current models.

Unless CCP lied about letting us keep the ability to fly any ship we can fly now.


If you have the BS skill trained already you won't need any BC skill to fly it. Similar to having Carrier trained and getting podded and losing BS V... you can still fly the Carrier.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-04-25 06:39:29 UTC
I had BC5 before the announcement, happily, because that is the important one.
Destroyer5 is good too, but much less important than BC5 because it only takes about 1 week to train each racial to 5 vs 1 month for each racial for Battlecruiser5.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Physalia Physalis
Marwolaeth Hyfryd
#47 - 2012-04-25 09:54:37 UTC
I have dessie and BC to 5 on most of the chars that will be flying them, so its not such a problem for me.

The one problem i have is that the new alt I made (which i made specifically to be a command ship pilot) may now have 3 months added to the dam training plan.

First of all, I trained all the leadership skills (all combat leadership to 5, except fleet command to 4), then I started training on the ship skills.

After I started training the ship skills, then they brought out the dev blog stating these changes and it now looks like I wont get BC5 before the patch.

If I have to train all individual race BC's to 5 that is gonna make me an unhappy bunny :(
Dave stark
#48 - 2012-04-25 15:52:11 UTC
Is there any word of what would happen if you were in the middle of training BC or dessy when the changes happen?

for example if you were 50% of the way through battlecruiser V. would you have all 4 racial skills at 50% of the way to the next level (provided you had the relevant prerequisites) or would they be at 0% progress?

this is the situation i'll find myself in and i was wondering if it was worth putting battlecruisers V in to my training plan or not.
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-04-25 15:56:43 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Is there any word of what would happen if you were in the middle of training BC or dessy when the changes happen?

for example if you were 50% of the way through battlecruiser V. would you have all 4 racial skills at 50% of the way to the next level (provided you had the relevant prerequisites) or would they be at 0% progress?

this is the situation i'll find myself in and i was wondering if it was worth putting battlecruisers V in to my training plan or not.


The best things that could happen is that either you get refunded those points, or you are given your racial BC "half trained".

In either case, you would lose on any potential bonus they're handing over, so I'd train it ASAP if I were you. BC V is one of the skills that makes me the happiest, currently. Incredibly useful.
Dave stark
#50 - 2012-04-25 18:03:30 UTC
Darius Brinn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Is there any word of what would happen if you were in the middle of training BC or dessy when the changes happen?

for example if you were 50% of the way through battlecruiser V. would you have all 4 racial skills at 50% of the way to the next level (provided you had the relevant prerequisites) or would they be at 0% progress?

this is the situation i'll find myself in and i was wondering if it was worth putting battlecruisers V in to my training plan or not.


The best things that could happen is that either you get refunded those points, or you are given your racial BC "half trained".

In either case, you would lose on any potential bonus they're handing over, so I'd train it ASAP if I were you. BC V is one of the skills that makes me the happiest, currently. Incredibly useful.


this is the issue; i either train it to level V, and sacrifice the prerequisites for three races, or sacrifice battlecruiser V. i'm mostly a miner so i think sacrificing rank V is a lesser evil than 3 other races to battlecruiser IV. time is against me :(
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-04-25 18:09:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Darius Brinn
Dave stark wrote:
[quote=Darius Brinn][
this is the issue; i either train it to level V, and sacrifice the prerequisites for three races, or sacrifice battlecruiser V. i'm mostly a miner so i think sacrificing rank V is a lesser evil than 3 other races to battlecruiser IV. time is against me :(


I am afraid I don't understand.

In order to FULLY and ABSOLUTELY ensure that you will receive all racial Battlecruisers V and all racial Destroyers V, you need:

-All Frigate skills to IV.
-All Cruiser skills to III.
-Battlecruisers V.
-Destroyers V.

Before the patch hits, you have PLENTY of time to train all this from ZERO, even if you started today (I think).

Frigates to IV and Cruisers to III takes less than a week in total, even if you don't have ANY Frigate trained to IV already (which is pretty stupid).
Cruisers to III takes around 3 days in total, even with low skills, if I'm not mistaken.
Destroyers V takes 8 days or so from zero to V.
Battlecruisers V takes 15 to 20 days depending on your skills.

I don't know when Inferno fully hits, but they've said that they want to revamp the ship lines before the skills changes. You HAVE time, more than enough. But don't delay it if you can.

I would have liked to be training Large Blaster specialization or maxing Gallente subsystems, but in 2 days I finish Destroyers V and I can get on with my EvE life, forgetting about all this until Inferno hits and I still find myself ABLE to fly all the ships I can fly today.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-04-25 18:57:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Release date for Inferno is May 22nd. So there is still time to train these. And like said before they're rebalancing ships before they make this skill change. Even if they start May 22nd it's going to be T1 frigates and cruisers. After those are done they move to larger ships. This rebalancing process will take some time. It's not going to happen in few days.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#53 - 2012-04-25 19:02:05 UTC
Lab MasterMind wrote:
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
My logic was fine I will train every T1 ship...

So if racial BC@some level is a prereq for racial BS in new model why would you not just train all the racial BS skills? (What I did). This means you get all BC skills at the level required to get the corresponding racial BS which looks to be BC IV using current models.

Unless CCP lied about letting us keep the ability to fly any ship we can fly now.


If you have the BS skill trained already you won't need any BC skill to fly it. Similar to having Carrier trained and getting podded and losing BS V... you can still fly the Carrier.


I was under the impression that you would need the previous racial class to 4 to get the next racial class?
Dave stark
#54 - 2012-04-25 19:39:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Darius Brinn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
[quote=Darius Brinn][
this is the issue; i either train it to level V, and sacrifice the prerequisites for three races, or sacrifice battlecruiser V. i'm mostly a miner so i think sacrificing rank V is a lesser evil than 3 other races to battlecruiser IV. time is against me :(


I am afraid I don't understand.

In order to FULLY and ABSOLUTELY ensure that you will receive all racial Battlecruisers V and all racial Destroyers V, you need:

-All Frigate skills to IV.
-All Cruiser skills to III.
-Battlecruisers V.
-Destroyers V.

Before the patch hits, you have PLENTY of time to train all this from ZERO, even if you started today (I think).

Frigates to IV and Cruisers to III takes less than a week in total, even if you don't have ANY Frigate trained to IV already (which is pretty stupid).
Cruisers to III takes around 3 days in total, even with low skills, if I'm not mistaken.
Destroyers V takes 8 days or so from zero to V.
Battlecruisers V takes 15 to 20 days depending on your skills.

I don't know when Inferno fully hits, but they've said that they want to revamp the ship lines before the skills changes. You HAVE time, more than enough. But don't delay it if you can.

I would have liked to be training Large Blaster specialization or maxing Gallente subsystems, but in 2 days I finish Destroyers V and I can get on with my EvE life, forgetting about all this until Inferno hits and I still find myself ABLE to fly all the ships I can fly today.

patch is out on the 22nd. that's 27 days. tomorrow i'll be able to add battlecruisers V to my queue. that'll take 23 days, leaving me with 4 days. that'll leave ~5 days. so i'm either going to sacrifice one of the racial battle cruisers, or i'll have a day or two left on battlecruisers IV, but it'll almost be finished training to V

if i train frigs/cruisers before level V battlecruisers, and then the patch comes out before i finish battlecrusiers IV, what will happen to the skillpoints? will they just give me all battlecruisers IV with 0% progress to rank V and say "you just wasted 25 days, but you got all 4 races battlecruisers at IV"? because if that's the case i'd gladly drop one of the racial battle cruisers because I to V is faster than IV to V 4 times.

does that make any more sense?
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#55 - 2012-04-25 19:48:02 UTC
am i the only one who would rather have the free sp to insta-train whatever i want?

I should buy an Ishtar.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-04-25 23:08:46 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
if i train frigs/cruisers before level V battlecruisers, and then the patch comes out before i finish battlecrusiers IV, what will happen to the skillpoints? will they just give me all battlecruisers IV with 0% progress to rank V and say "you just wasted 25 days, but you got all 4 races battlecruisers at IV"? because if that's the case i'd gladly drop one of the racial battle cruisers because I to V is faster than IV to V 4 times.

does that make any more sense?


Latest info is that they are not going to remove current destroyer/battlecruiser skills before they have done with rebalancing. We don't know when they start rebalancing ships. They do T1 frigates and cruisers before T1 destroyers and battlecuisers.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#57 - 2012-04-25 23:30:14 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
am i the only one who would rather have the free sp to insta-train whatever i want?


Probably not, but honestly I would take all four racial BC skills to five right away anyhow. Not as convinced on destroyers; I might stockpile that for the inevitable T3 losses....
Dave stark
#58 - 2012-04-26 07:33:15 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
if i train frigs/cruisers before level V battlecruisers, and then the patch comes out before i finish battlecrusiers IV, what will happen to the skillpoints? will they just give me all battlecruisers IV with 0% progress to rank V and say "you just wasted 25 days, but you got all 4 races battlecruisers at IV"? because if that's the case i'd gladly drop one of the racial battle cruisers because I to V is faster than IV to V 4 times.

does that make any more sense?


Latest info is that they are not going to remove current destroyer/battlecruiser skills before they have done with rebalancing. We don't know when they start rebalancing ships. They do T1 frigates and cruisers before T1 destroyers and battlecuisers.

well i'm only a couple of days short on time, if it was all to be done on the day of the patch, so i guess i'm safe.
Elsbeth Taron
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2012-04-26 07:46:53 UTC
So are these changes definitely coming?
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-04-26 09:14:17 UTC
Dave stark wrote:

patch is out on the 22nd. that's 27 days. tomorrow i'll be able to add battlecruisers V to my queue. that'll take 23 days, leaving me with 4 days. that'll leave ~5 days. so i'm either going to sacrifice one of the racial battle cruisers, or i'll have a day or two left on battlecruisers IV, but it'll almost be finished training to V

if i train frigs/cruisers before level V battlecruisers, and then the patch comes out before i finish battlecrusiers IV, what will happen to the skillpoints? will they just give me all battlecruisers IV with 0% progress to rank V and say "you just wasted 25 days, but you got all 4 races battlecruisers at IV"? because if that's the case i'd gladly drop one of the racial battle cruisers because I to V is faster than IV to V 4 times.

does that make any more sense?


But that's what I meant. Inferno hits in 27 days, but as far as I know, these changes to BC and Destroyer skills will NOT BE IMPLEMENTED BY THEN.

CCP claimed they wanted to review the ship lines first, possibly introducing new Destroyer hulls. ONLY after they've revisited and redesigned the ships themselves, the changes to skills will be implemented.

So no, you don't JUST have 27 days. You probably have months.