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In the feature storm, no mention of the Local-Chat-Intel-Gathering issue.
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Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-04-23 18:36:08 UTC
hired goon - You still have that mass limitation and connections to random unknowns which is more than enough to keep wormhole space special enough.
Rivur'Tam
the united
#82 - 2012-04-23 19:49:39 UTC
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Siva Surya Kshatriya wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Many years ago the local channel stopped working. It showed no one except the number of pilots in that system. For that one day the game had changed. Real scouts were sent out to gather information and the excitement of not knowing what was out there was amazing.

Then CCP changed it back to what you have now. An instant, effort free, super intel gathering device. So lame.


This.

Or you could make local delayed, with the delay before your name pops up dependent on the sig radius of your ship - for example, a Rifter with a tiny sig radius might take 1.5 minutes to show up, whereas a BS would show ip in like 20 seconds (all arbitrary numbers, but you get the idea). This would make small, light scouts a lot more useful and make gangs of raiding frigs far more viable, as they would have a stealth advantage when compared to heavier ships.

Definitely the best solution. This way nobody is 'blinded' as it was put, but local is also no longer the best scouting tool players have.



terrible idea local is fine the way it is why waste time and effort on something that is not broken.

there is no local in wh space go hang about in there problem solved.

If you take away local there will be no ratters there for you to gank anyway then you would just whine about and that.

There needs to be some way to uncloak ships, aoe uncloaker would be epic its badly needed in this game.

I live in lowsec, i spent long periods in both null and wh space and i like lowsec better so if they ruined teh game by delaying it or whatever it would effect me becuase people would quit and there would be less for me to kill so it would hurt y game in a roundabout way.

[b]Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire

^^ my sig was awesome that naugty spitfire stole it for himself true story

United Recruitment Director.[/b]
Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-04-23 20:48:34 UTC
Dragon Outlaw wrote:


A Goon afraid of hunters? Are you worried of high sec carebears being hunted or are you refering to nullbears?


As I said, I would probably benefit from this change.

But I imagine people that spend time mining will have a hard time with increased risks for their 'fun' activity. It would be a pitty to have decreased industralist activity in null sec, imo.

Its not because I play on the other court that i am oblivious to the pains of others.


Eve is a big playground, and i imagine it will be a pain to get fights without intel. Its already a pain as it is, with "real time" intel. Delayed intel has no value.

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-04-23 22:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
Good intel is a double edged sword. You can argue it causes more fights to happen or less fights to happen. Intel is so effort free and fast that you can't undock and move more than two systems without your name, alliance you are in, ship types and numbers being blasted over intel channels for five regions. All because someone saw you in local. Plenty of time to form a blob to, well blob your three man t1 cruiser fleet or simply warp off to a pos/station/cloak to avoid any conflict.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2012-04-23 22:56:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Marlona Sky wrote:
Good intel is a double edged sword. You can argue it causes more fights to happen or less fights to happen.

You can't argue that delayed local causes more fights to happen when CCP Diagoras' stats have w-space pvp activity trailing behind everywhere except highsec.

What you need to accept that that the pve activity that you wish to prey on needs an incentive to actually do in nullsec instead of in highsec, not some sort of additional hurdle added.
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#86 - 2012-04-23 23:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dragon Outlaw
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Good intel is a double edged sword. You can argue it causes more fights to happen or less fights to happen.

You can't argue that delayed local causes more fights to happen when CCP Diagoras' stats have w-space pvp activity trailing behind everywhere except highsec.



Of course there is gona be less PvP in WHs. You need to scan them down 1st.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#87 - 2012-04-24 00:14:19 UTC
What if local stopped showing standings/color tags but constellation would?

Makes defending your systems/region more efficient.
Makes the sole/lone ratter easier to catch in highly populated systems.
Makes the solo/small gangs harder to detect

Think about it.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2012-04-24 03:59:00 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
You can't argue that delayed local causes more fights to happen when CCP Diagoras' stats have w-space pvp activity trailing behind everywhere except highsec.


It's impossible to say whether this is a causual relationship
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#89 - 2012-04-24 04:12:17 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
You can't argue that delayed local causes more fights to happen when CCP Diagoras' stats have w-space pvp activity trailing behind everywhere except highsec.

It's impossible to say whether this is a causual relationship

Yep, the lack of pvp actually leads to the game not updating its local, thus less pvp causes delayed local, but delayed local actually increased pvp.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2012-04-24 04:15:29 UTC
No local = more difficult to find PVP.


Compromise:
Pilots do not show up in local until they decloak.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#91 - 2012-04-24 05:13:28 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Good intel is a double edged sword. You can argue it causes more fights to happen or less fights to happen.

You can't argue that delayed local causes more fights to happen when CCP Diagoras' stats have w-space pvp activity trailing behind everywhere except highsec.

What you need to accept that that the pve activity that you wish to prey on needs an incentive to actually do in nullsec instead of in highsec, not some sort of additional hurdle added.


First of all; delayed local does not exist. Also thinking that bringing delayed local will help is also wrong. That would just mean that people will still rely on local for intel, but wait x amount of time to determine if it is safe or not.

Second of all; no one is advocating, especially me, that income should not be balanced. I will say, as I always have, that activities in high sec for income should not even come remotely close to the amount of income one can make from low, null and unknown space.

Let me put it this way. The income of one guy running a mission in high sec should not equate to half of what a person running the same mission makes in null after paying out adequate shares for protection to run said mission.
Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2012-04-24 10:31:14 UTC
An effect of delayed local is that since it is more difficult to find targets, it makes ratting/farming safer (of course cloaker gangs are a bigger problem).

Possibly, the reduced risk in 0.0 farming induced by the lack of local could encourage people to go to 0.0 to farm, thus increasing the potential targets for PVP activity.

To clarify my point let's make an example of a solo player in a lone. low traffic system.
Imagine that, with non delayed local chat, you can be caught (say) once every hour by roaming gangs. If you manage to safe up and cloak before they get on you, you save your ship but you are not making money anymore for, let's say, at least 30 minutes. For this reason, your isk/hour ratio decreases by 33% and it might be convenient to go back to highsec to make money.
Now imagine that, with delayed local, you can be caught (say) once every 5 hours. It means that if you have to give up ratting for 30 minutes when you see them on scanner you're losing just the 9% of your nominal income, and in that situation it might be convenient to stay in nullsec. For this reason, more people will move to 0.0 to make money and there will be more targets for PVP. Some of them will make errors and lose their ship.
Of course there is a second order effect: when the hunters perceive there are more preys they will become more active and make all farming activities more dangerous. Then farmers will move towards less dengerous zones.

Overall, it has to be expected a better survivability of farmers in 0.0, and that means there will be more targets in 0.0 and the pvp opportunities can be stable or even increase with delayed local chat

I see a cyclical depopulation-repopulation dynamic, in the end.

(and i'm not for delayed local without a proper alternative intel tool that must be there)
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#93 - 2012-04-24 10:51:45 UTC
SweetrolI wrote:
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
If you think Local gives you too much information, keep it closed. Problem solved.


Was that a serious comment or... are you ********?


I think the local give the carebearing blobbers too much information, if they closed it they wouldn't whine about having me in local. Sad

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
leich
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#94 - 2012-04-24 11:23:03 UTC
Current issue with the local/Intel system is it is too easy for people to run away and hide avoiding PVP.

On the other hand if it is removed completely war decs would be impossible. It would also have a negative effect on small gangs. It's far to easy to get blobed as it is without local what would be the point.



I think the issue with this thread is most people have a very narrow view of the issues surounding local.

Not that i am saying it's perfect currently.

also using wormwholes as an example is useless 1. not enought people live there 2. Very little passing traffic 3. Poeple who live there have spec'd to do so.

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#95 - 2012-04-24 12:09:57 UTC
Easy counter for local... Cloaky alts!

Move them around every few hours so they at least look active, and intel is no longer reliable, amazing how that works.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#96 - 2012-04-24 17:03:07 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Easy counter for local... Cloaky alts!

Move them around every few hours so they at least look active, and intel is no longer reliable, amazing how that works.

Or just shoot people every now and then, that also works AND you get kills :)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?