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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Discussion thread about WiS

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Author
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#61 - 2012-04-23 19:28:57 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Cailais wrote:
The concept of exploration type game play sounds interesting, but that remains a rather tentative and vague idea. Are you able to explain what you mean by 'exploration style gameplay'?


Sure, the basic premise would be along the lines of exploring space to discover abandoned structures then going inside them to salvage what you can whilst dealing with any surprises expected and otherwise. This should be expanded on in the forthcoming devblog

We'd also include in that all the social spaces within stations and what not you'd previously expected so this isn't a replacement for other designs but actually provides a space for meaningful gameplay. It's also not the only idea we're working on but is certainly the most developed. The exciting thing is we're seeing some overlap between different ideas so the possibilities for extending WiS gameplay could be pretty awesome once the initial gameplay release is done.


A personal beg: whatever you do, make it playable in 30 minutes! Lol

If it takes 2 hours to sweep a site, people like me -with full time jobs and a real life- will be left out of WiS as much as we are left out of "core" FiS gameplay... Roll
Ai Shun
#62 - 2012-04-23 20:00:54 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
As you can notice it is not the same 3D render engine as the one used in CQ, but a simpler one. And, as we already have a simple 3D engine on the website, it is not a stretch of imagination to wonder wether would be technically feasible for CCP Ann & al. to implement the function I suggested above.


I am aware we have a full body preview and that some ship models are displayed on the website. This still seems like a pointless waste of time compared to other, gameplay related WiS items.

CCP Bayesian wrote:
Sure, the basic premise would be along the lines of exploring space to discover abandoned structures then going inside them to salvage what you can whilst dealing with any surprises expected and otherwise. This should be expanded on in the forthcoming devblog


I'm curious as to how you cover this in the lore. I'm a big fan of WiS, but I don't want to suspend disbelief at a capsuleer, encased in their pod and piloting a ship the size of a small moon with a crew of hundreds and thousands (Like a cake topping) disconnecting from their capsule to walk into an exploration site ...

It would completely destroy immersion of my character as a capsuleer. Are you going to be handling it through a form of EVA vehicle or similar or will it be a simulation we run as capsuleers or how are you fitting it into the lore?

Also, how will it change the current exploration mechanics? We'll still need to probe down sites; but will other players have the option to use their modules as they did before? And will it be possible to compete so I can steal somebodies ship when they are outside of it?
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#63 - 2012-04-23 20:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Ai Shun wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
As you can notice it is not the same 3D render engine as the one used in CQ, but a simpler one. And, as we already have a simple 3D engine on the website, it is not a stretch of imagination to wonder wether would be technically feasible for CCP Ann & al. to implement the function I suggested above.


I am aware we have a full body preview and that some ship models are displayed on the website. This still seems like a pointless waste of time compared to other, gameplay related WiS items.

CCP Bayesian wrote:
Sure, the basic premise would be along the lines of exploring space to discover abandoned structures then going inside them to salvage what you can whilst dealing with any surprises expected and otherwise. This should be expanded on in the forthcoming devblog


I'm curious as to how you cover this in the lore. I'm a big fan of WiS, but I don't want to suspend disbelief at a capsuleer, encased in their pod and piloting a ship the size of a small moon with a crew of hundreds and thousands (Like a cake topping) disconnecting from their capsule to walk into an exploration site ...

It would completely destroy immersion of my character as a capsuleer. Are you going to be handling it through a form of EVA vehicle or similar or will it be a simulation we run as capsuleers or how are you fitting it into the lore?

Also, how will it change the current exploration mechanics? We'll still need to probe down sites; but will other players have the option to use their modules as they did before? And will it be possible to compete so I can steal somebodies ship when they are outside of it?


Oh, don't worry, miss Fazmarai already figured that out. And then went the extra mile, as usual.

Here:

Drone clones proposal

Abridged version:

Quote:
I can see capsuleeers using disposable DUST-like drone clones while they keep command of their ship and safety; also envision such clones as having abbilities specific to them (hacking of ancient computers, stealthiness, improved combat abilities... controllable through the appropiate skills, and available through appropiate clone upgrading with "clone modules"... like the cyborgs from games such as Syndicate or Deus Ex)

Furthemore, I can see how capsuleers would lead those "drone clones" into deadly gladiator arenas, for the fun and tears... losing clones as they lose ships for the thrill of PvP... (snippet: "Did it hurt when i twisted that gladius into your guts?" "Not more than when I blew your Tengu, I guess")


That could fit into the lore and would open enough doors to keep Team Avatar busy for the next decade.
Ai Shun
#64 - 2012-04-23 21:35:57 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Oh, don't worry, miss Fazmarai already figured that out. And then went the extra mile, as usual.


Yes, I had a similar suggestion but using a robotic EVA type vehicle. (Manufactured, further goodies for industrial players) However, I am after what CCP is doing. Not what we imagine as non lore-breaking.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#65 - 2012-04-23 21:43:49 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Oh, don't worry, miss Fazmarai already figured that out. And then went the extra mile, as usual.


Yes, I had a similar suggestion but using a robotic EVA type vehicle. (Manufactured, further goodies for industrial players) However, I am after what CCP is doing. Not what we imagine as non lore-breaking.


Well, at least we are providing them with suggestions, for what is worth.

I would like to see some suggestions about WiS gameplay, btw.
Ai Shun
#66 - 2012-04-23 21:53:25 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
I would like to see some suggestions about WiS gameplay, btw.


Have you scanned the thread I posted? I made some game-play suggestion and there were some good suggestions from other players regarding station services.
Gothikia
#67 - 2012-04-23 22:14:23 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Cailais wrote:
The concept of exploration type game play sounds interesting, but that remains a rather tentative and vague idea. Are you able to explain what you mean by 'exploration style gameplay'?


Sure, the basic premise would be along the lines of exploring space to discover abandoned structures then going inside them to salvage what you can whilst dealing with any surprises expected and otherwise. This should be expanded on in the forthcoming devblog

We'd also include in that all the social spaces within stations and what not you'd previously expected so this isn't a replacement for other designs but actually provides a space for meaningful gameplay. It's also not the only idea we're working on but is certainly the most developed. The exciting thing is we're seeing some overlap between different ideas so the possibilities for extending WiS gameplay could be pretty awesome once the initial gameplay release is done.


Instead of you guys dreaming up stuff with abandoned structures, why not just put all your focus into finishing Incarna off with establishments, corp and alliance board rooms, other meeting places and so on within stations before you go off dreaming about other things? I think its fair to say that you guys do one thing, burn out, then put your heads somewhere else without finishing the original job off that you started. I mean CCP in general, not your team. But since we do have WiS now, it would be nice to see it completed, rather than fall by the wayside like so many other features that have come along - especially when there was so much investment into Incarna. Get your money's worth.

<3 Gothie

Whitehound
#68 - 2012-04-23 22:53:11 UTC
Katerwaul wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
I am against WiS, because I do not want any other reason to dock at a station than to pause or end a game session. I am not interested in CCP pursuing avatars and then to pay for it. I will make my opinion heard by unsubscribing whenever CCP thinks they can sell me what I do not want.

...
Could you explain your point more clearly? ...

No FPS shooter or RPG game can hold me for more than a few days until I get bored of it. I also do not like to PvP with FPS shooters as it, too, gets me bored after only a few hours. The entire idea of running around with a puppet is just annoying. In short, I do not like to play with puppets. Never have, never will and I did try.

Secondly, I see no point in trying to add such a game element to a game which is and always has been about Internet spaceships. All it enables you is to walk away from your spaceship and there has simply never been a need to do this. I then prefer it when CCP uses its resources on other aspects of the game, because I fear another decline in player numbers when they continue on this path, which is going to effect my game.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Sara Seraph
Sara Inc
#69 - 2012-04-24 00:51:40 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:


do I need to leave the team for you guys to believe that the team is actually working on prototyping and avatars? Sad
I feel really bad if I am hurting my team's credibility and if people see me as some proof that CCP is lying to you, when all I am trying to do is to help players out.
I guess at the end of the day people will just believe what they want to believe, and I should probably not waste my days off getting annoyed at stuff like that.


Hopefully, it was not taken that CCP Devs are liars and cheats and whatevers Big smile

Personally, the ones I have met or made contact with, have been fantastic, awesome, wonderful... Big smile

hehe... Thanks folks for a very addictive environment.
Sara Seraph
Sara Inc
#70 - 2012-04-24 00:57:40 UTC
[quote=Whitehound

... anti-WiS sayings...

[/quote]

So with the "Ignore WiS Button" why not use it and actually not use WiS or CQ? Or am I missing some deeper more complex problem. What?



Add PETS - little drone-ettes for Gallente - I forgot which post I saw this is, but would be fantastic.
Sara Seraph
Sara Inc
#71 - 2012-04-24 01:08:30 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
My 100% custom avatar binds me more to EVE than my multi-billion mission runner ships. She is UNIQUE. And, for what is worth, she can't be lost/destroyed by some hooligan. She's a permanent bond to EVE.


Not very unique. Most of the Asian type characters have a very, very similar look. Pop hairstyle, revealing clothes, oversized breasts. A fairly typical character. May as well bond with the other lookalikes.

If you want to see unique characters; have a look at the Winners' gallery @ http://www.eveportraits.com



I agree with Indahmawar - if I understand correctly - an animated being as being more immersive than a machine anytime.
Books and movies have been exploiting this fact since... forever .

Sara Seraph
Sara Inc
#72 - 2012-04-24 01:17:01 UTC
Duvida wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

... interesting stuff...



These are all observant things about the avatar itself, but for WiS and interactions with others, they'd need to construct the places that the avatars would meet and make sure that several avatars could be on the screen without issue and such. When the avatars first were brought out, some folks couldn't use the WiS feature of CQ as it would cause their video cards to work much harder than without that enabled. Some of these cards reportedly, were newer, and some older. Laptop users, of course, had to stop CQ very quickly if they noticed this issue. Their alternative was 'the door'. That seems to have been addressed for one avatar. So could several avatars be viewed on a screen without that same issue arising? [/quote]

Shouldn't there be a "base-line" system requirement to play EVE?


2 ISKies: Players get one Home Station. Customizable, with pets!
Sara Seraph
Sara Inc
#73 - 2012-04-24 01:27:40 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

... stuff ...

All in all let's say we get to be heard and magically CCP changes their mind and decides to provide some original WiS content in 2012.... what would we ask for? Putting two stuffed parrots in a cage, cycling idle animations & ignoring each other ad eternum[? Or do we expect them to somehow interact? FAI: Should avatars of different gender 'look' at each other? Should that be authomated or should be left to players via /emotes (/check boobz...Lol)?

In a sense, social content is quti ecomplex as most of it would involve designign non-evident stuff (animations like i explained above) but also figure out mechanics that make social interaction a rewarding experience. As someone put it, let's say you go meet someone and there are unexpected guests and... what goes next? Why do capsuleers meet?


One item for 2012, WiS related, and possible on a limited budget? What?

  • Release more Nexus items AND a reasonable MT system.
  • Ai Shun
    #74 - 2012-04-24 01:35:21 UTC
    Sara Seraph wrote:
  • Release more Nexus items AND a reasonable MT system.

  • Having read your last few posts I can safely say the content and ideas you have are so radically removed from the general EVE population base and the history of the game and the people playing it that implementing them would be disastrous.

    Microtransactions? Really? Did the summer of rage mean nothing to you? Fluff over gameplay? No, thank you.
    Whitehound
    #75 - 2012-04-24 02:24:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
    Sara Seraph wrote:
    Whitehound wrote:


    ... anti-WiS sayings...



    So with the "Ignore WiS Button" why not use it and actually not use WiS or CQ? Or am I missing some deeper more complex problem. What?



    Add PETS - little drone-ettes for Gallente - I forgot which post I saw this is, but would be fantastic.

    What makes you think I am using the CQ? I am not. And yes, you are missing something, that it is my opinion, which I post here. This is a discussion thread about WiS, is it not? It tells me so in the subject line...

    Why do I get the feeling that my opinion is not welcome here? Why the hostility and the disrespect? I seem to be the one who is missing your problem! Why do you not tell me what it is or is it just that you cannot let it stand as such?

    Whatever it is do I fail to see how you want this to be a polite and constructive discussion. I just do not see it. Do me a favour and think of me as a 40 year old man who unsubscribed with Incarna only to return with Crucicble and who is now trying to understand why it needs WiS and why it is still being discussed and developed after so many have booted it. Can you do this for me, please?

    Unless of course old people do not deserve explanations and returning players are not welcome any more. If so, please, tell me.

    Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

    Dersen Lowery
    The Scope
    #76 - 2012-04-24 05:05:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
    Whitehound wrote:
    Whatever it is do I fail to see how you want this to be a polite and constructive discussion. I just do not see it. Do me a favour and think of me as a 40 year old man who unsubscribed with Incarna only to return with Crucicble and who is now trying to understand why it needs WiS and why it is still being discussed and developed after so many have booted it. Can you do this for me, please?


    This is not a zero sum game. EVE is vast. Most of the content appeals to you. If some new content doesn't appeal to you, it will not not displace any of the content that you already enjoy. It will just provide additional content to attract players who want something different out of the game than you do.

    Look at it this way: You're already catered to. You already have CCP vocally committed to expending the majority of their resources on the game you want into the foreseeable future. You're sitting pretty and you have nothing to worry about, unless you're disturbed by the possibility that someone might like or play parts of EVE that you don't for reasons other than yours.

    EVE will always, fundamentally, be about internet spaceships. That's been settled. Do you need it to always, exclusively be about internet spaceships?

    That said, thanks to Karkur and Bayesian for posting here, and to Phantom for keeping us honest. The exploration mini game sounds cool. A "boardroom" that could communicate with DUST corporate rooms, with shared maps that can be marked up by either party, would be a great use of WiS that fed right into the core of EVE: meaningful interaction with other players.

    Don't stop adding stuff to the character customizer. The more variety and individuality, the better. For example, you know that software that merges two distinct faces into a third one? It would be cool to be able to generate even more face and body types from mixed parentage. Do the Sebiestor dress the same way the Brutor do, or likewise with the various Empire subcultures? It would be cool to have more than four captains' quarters: maybe the different cultures have different aesthetics, particularly more the more insular ones. Maybe a pleasure hub would have vastly different accommodations from a market, or a factory, or a naval academy. But as those don't add substantially to the core game, they should be a lower priority, maybe just slipped in here and there without fanfare. They enrich the game, just not as much as interactive content does.

    And please do something about the length of time it takes to load the CQ environment. For that reason alone I spend almost all my time in hangar view.

    Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

    I voted in CSM X!

    Francisco Bizzaro
    #77 - 2012-04-24 06:45:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Francisco Bizzaro
    Ai Shun wrote:
    I'm curious as to how you cover this in the lore. I'm a big fan of WiS, but I don't want to suspend disbelief at a capsuleer, encased in their pod and piloting a ship the size of a small moon with a crew of hundreds and thousands (Like a cake topping) disconnecting from their capsule to walk into an exploration site ...

    It would completely destroy immersion of my character as a capsuleer. Are you going to be handling it through a form of EVA vehicle or similar or will it be a simulation we run as capsuleers or how are you fitting it into the lore?

    The irony here is that a good deal of the original lore seems to have been written exactly for the purpose of explaining why "your ship is your character", as a workaround so that an underfunded company could get a game off the ground without having to develop avatars.
    Whitehound
    #78 - 2012-04-24 09:54:30 UTC
    Dersen Lowery wrote:
    EVE will always, fundamentally, be about internet spaceships. That's been settled. Do you need it to always, exclusively be about internet spaceships?

    Yes, of course.

    Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

    Landrae
    Sacred Templars
    #79 - 2012-04-24 10:24:47 UTC
    This may seem slightly off topic but it relates to WiS. As possibilities for complete POS overhaul was discussed at fanfest and the possibility of POS's becoming more like stations. I guess my questions is would POS's be more like the internation Space Station IRL where you float around through tube like structures or would it have WiS like what was described for Incarna before it got scrapped.
    CCP Bayesian
    #80 - 2012-04-24 12:37:27 UTC
    Gothikia wrote:
    Instead of you guys dreaming up stuff with abandoned structures, why not just put all your focus into finishing Incarna off with establishments, corp and alliance board rooms, other meeting places and so on within stations before you go off dreaming about other things? I think its fair to say that you guys do one thing, burn out, then put your heads somewhere else without finishing the original job off that you started. I mean CCP in general, not your team. But since we do have WiS now, it would be nice to see it completed, rather than fall by the wayside like so many other features that have come along - especially when there was so much investment into Incarna. Get your money's worth.


    I don't think this is a case of developing a feature and then dropping it to concentrate elsewhere more a realisation that the way we were developing WiS was wrong for what it was we actually had on our plates. Treating it as just another EVE expansion doesn't work when there is so much technology to develop and that was happening at the same time as we were trying to use it to create the gameplay, such that it was. Taking a step back lets us nail the technology we need, get an idea of timeframes for development as well as giving us confidence in providing you guys with a kick ass experience. Stuff like the social and meeting areas falls out of that development almost for free. Ultimately developing better tools lets us make better gameplay faster and the first step in that is deciding what we want to make. I realise it's frustrating we're not continuing to develop on top of what already exists but trust me it's not because we don't want to provide you guys with all the things that were promised it just that we want to do it right so that not only do you get what was promised but we are in a position to rapidly build on that in interesting ways rather than hamstringing ourselves.

    EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter