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Discussion thread about WiS

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Author
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#541 - 2012-09-24 23:06:58 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
No news is not necessarily bad news. CCP may have clammed the WiS devs up because they have a plan to surprise us. I'm not saying it's likely, but it's possible. There are a few things--for example, POSes--that they're being pretty secretive about.

I'd rather have them do it right, and not do it to the exclusion of other kinds of gameplay, so I can be patient.

Edit: Some grounds for optimism.


The link provides nothing but speculation ,the same thing everybody have done in all WIS related threads

And the only one that can stop this speculation is the so called mystery Team Avatar

Don,t get me wrong , i love the idea of WIS ,but discussing it ,without knowing what to expect is useless

R.S.I2014

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#542 - 2012-09-24 23:51:14 UTC
Well yes, "grounds for optimism" is not the same as proof from the horse's mouth. But it's speculation informed by the CSM minutes on Incarna (which I also found fascinating on read-through), and I take from it the hope that CCP's silence, and Seleene's more recently, are more likely about something exciting that they can't talk about yet than about how everything's come to a grinding halt.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Furry Commander
Furry Armada
#543 - 2012-09-25 00:21:36 UTC
Honestly, I still don't use CQs at all. I have no need or interest in WiS. As long as it remains an optional feature I have no problems with it per se, and as long as the FiS stuff keeps looking good everyone else can ambulate all they want, and i will continue to ignore it.

If however, WiS or even CQs becomes a mandatory part of play, I will be sorely disapointed. as far as i am concerned WiS is unecessary to keep EVE alive and well, and so should definitely be a back burner optional feature if it is developed at all
Ghazu
#544 - 2012-09-25 02:12:36 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
It's a matter of waiting. We can wait in the void for three years at least until we get the whole nine yards of the same old crap on foot, or we can be provided a social sandbox and fill it as we see fit since next year and until whenever they figure some original and new content.

Also I pointed out in several occasions how the modding community could come to assist in art assets.

Currently CCP is not delivering WiS and is not allowing players to make WiS content. CCP is not even ASKING the players what would they want to do aside form the same old crap on foot. They are telling us to buy the same old starship stuff in new shiny or GTFO, and I wonder how long will be until enough subscribers please them.

They are removing gameplay from me with each "expansion" (now it's the Arbitrator's turn... it was a nice unique ship, will miss it) and are not giving anything in exchange. Oh, yes, the new Mackinaw is cool, now I can mine the same i mined for four years with a new ship, hoorray. So what? I still haven't repaid the Mackinaw and already are bored of mining, just as if I had done it for four years. And i am very excited about whenever they feel it's time to mess with faction BS, so they f-up my mission runner ships too.

Doh, it's on my signature, so why bother hammering the point? I never fitted into EVE, they're removing the little niches were people like me could hide from the politically correct crap and they're not going to provide substitutes. Neither in space, nor in stations. Game over.


1. First of all why would CCP release their proprietary in-house carbon engine to the masses? Secondly I am perfectly fine with CCP's in-house art department. Why deal with time-to-penis and people's bad taste in general? How long before some moron makes a hello kitty thing and CCP gets sued by Sanrio.
2. CCP is not asking? They've asked and we've answered with a "no thank you to the imvu freakshow".
3, Arbitrator is buffed what are you talking about?

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#545 - 2012-09-25 02:34:53 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Well yes, "grounds for optimism" is not the same as proof from the horse's mouth. But it's speculation informed by the CSM minutes on Incarna (which I also found fascinating on read-through), and I take from it the hope that CCP's silence, and Seleene's more recently, are more likely about something exciting that they can't talk about yet than about how everything's come to a grinding halt.



for me the silence of Team Avatar ,WIS is put to death by CCP,s management

but its pure speculation ofcourse


And if Team Avatar suddenly brings up nice stuff after all ,i will give my apologies to ccp management for the things i said after the silencing of TA
But somehow i think i don,t have to do that.

R.S.I2014

Ghazu
#546 - 2012-09-25 02:43:27 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Well yes, "grounds for optimism" is not the same as proof from the horse's mouth. But it's speculation informed by the CSM minutes on Incarna (which I also found fascinating on read-through), and I take from it the hope that CCP's silence, and Seleene's more recently, are more likely about something exciting that they can't talk about yet than about how everything's come to a grinding halt.



for me the silence of Team Avatar ,WIS is put to death by CCP,s management

but its pure speculation ofcourse


And if Team Avatar suddenly brings up nice stuff after all ,i will give my apologies to ccp management for the things i said after the silencing of TA
But somehow i think i don,t have to do that.


It's also frustrating as hell like jesus christ every time I want to discuss meaningful wis gameplay all these freaks come running out bleating how much they want to emote each other and I end up sounding trollish.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#547 - 2012-09-25 14:50:34 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Well yes, "grounds for optimism" is not the same as proof from the horse's mouth. But it's speculation informed by the CSM minutes on Incarna (which I also found fascinating on read-through), and I take from it the hope that CCP's silence, and Seleene's more recently, are more likely about something exciting that they can't talk about yet than about how everything's come to a grinding halt.



for me the silence of Team Avatar ,WIS is put to death by CCP,s management

but its pure speculation ofcourse


And if Team Avatar suddenly brings up nice stuff after all ,i will give my apologies to ccp management for the things i said after the silencing of TA
But somehow i think i don,t have to do that.


It's also frustrating as hell like jesus christ every time I want to discuss meaningful wis gameplay all these freaks come running out bleating how much they want to emote each other and I end up sounding trollish.



who cares, if WIS could provide both gameplay and the emotes for the idiots who want to dance around all the time, then everybody is happy

But that is wishful thinking

R.S.I2014

Ulam Stanislaw
#548 - 2012-09-26 13:47:55 UTC
I am wondering why CCP showed us the same trailer "Future Vision" this year fanfest. It clearly shows part of the game that will propably never exist or at least for many years. They treat us like litlle stuipid kids, promising stuff hoping we forget or something. I'm still waiting for official appologies from CCP about WIS development and broken promises.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#549 - 2012-09-26 16:30:46 UTC
There are at least three emotes in "A Future Vision," with two coming at the very end: his look over the shoulder, and her "nothing personal" smile before she shoots.

They're not silly, exaggerated emotes like WoW has, but that's because EVE isn't a silly, exaggerated game like WoW is. If WiS is only going to be affectless androids with exactly the same tics, then why even bother? Even in the proposed exploration missions, it's not hard to imagine emotes and gestures used for silent or covert communication, sort of like sign language.

There are any number of ways to do this right. It doesn't have to be /dance and /train.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#550 - 2012-09-26 18:49:55 UTC
I opt for emotes more like:
/rude
/finger
/disgusted
/slitthroat
/tantrum

could be useful
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#551 - 2012-09-26 19:43:54 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
There are at least three emotes in "A Future Vision," with two coming at the very end: his look over the shoulder, and her "nothing personal" smile before she shoots.

They're not silly, exaggerated emotes like WoW has, but that's because EVE isn't a silly, exaggerated game like WoW is. If WiS is only going to be affectless androids with exactly the same tics, then why even bother? Even in the proposed exploration missions, it's not hard to imagine emotes and gestures used for silent or covert communication, sort of like sign language.

There are any number of ways to do this right. It doesn't have to be /dance and /train.


For the record, I still haven't used a single emote in GW2, and don't even know what emotes are in that game.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Lateris
#552 - 2012-09-26 23:21:46 UTC
Space is a much easier design in terms of creating a virtual world. A walking avatar is much more complex. I feel CCP has captured the art within the CQ's for the New Eden Universe. That is a done deal. What we don't know is actually what they have done with WiS besides the CQ.

In the CQ the avatar is too stiff and far too slow when walking. The flow of movement needs to be less stiff. We may be in a pod but we did walk at some point as a species. Part of my interpretation of CCP with Eve is that they create a game that has the freedom to choose. I feel that needs to translate into the avatar. Freedom to build, freedom to act, freedom to own a Cantina, a space station, an asteroid base , or a base on a moon, a science lab to create and manufacture in. Every aspect of New Eden is glorious in the fact that it can come to life within this engine.

Perhaps I want to be a colonists and farm fungus or tera form a planet as an avatar. I would love to do this as an avatar within a system that is Eve Online and where my game play as an avatar builds from that foundation. The possibilities are endless and if I could be in your shoes CCP I would be brave and move forward. Give the micro-transaction store to the players and make it a full time player market. Make all items crafted for avatars to be made by the players. This would include modules for every aspect of the avatar. Crafting in today's MMO's are boring. Crafting in this game is a challenge!

I really have to feel that your design solutions are all in many Sci Fi novels. As a fan please show us your ideas that have been shelved such as Sec Wars. Bring ideas to the test server and let us give you feedback. I think the community would respect that. It is a good fifty year plan. ;) and your love for space since last summer is darn good :)
JcJet
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#553 - 2012-09-27 04:27:17 UTC  |  Edited by: JcJet
Emotions... I've never seen them in games which have them. Well, a few times in a years. I think the only use for them is "family photo" screenshots and some videos. It's the same as walking mode. Who the hell will use it in game???
But i'm walking sometimes in Entropia Universe. Why? Because it's a thinking game, where you better plan your money and business. Althrough it's fine to just hunt the monsters...

But most of the games are not thinking games, including EVE. Because you don't need to think much to earn XP and money - in eve it's the same - farming. WH, missions, plexes, this dungeon thing in the latest WiS prototype video - it's the same things! And thinking is inproffitable, because you're wasting your time which you can use for farming...

Well, let's think anyway. How can we organize our business in EVE to make a passive income which allow us to buy plex and some things for the game itself? Let's say we can invest in this something around $10.000. And what? To do that. you're need either to buy shares, or set up some establishment - shop, or a service station. It's should be scaleable. I don't see a proper tools for that. Moons are not for a single interpreneur, outpost it's also a little difficult to make some proffit - a defence can eat all of your investmens. Althrough it can be fun :)

POSes are nightmare - WTF, why should i personnaly fly at every single one of them to manage it?

Lateris wrote:
Space is a much easier design in terms of creating a virtual world. A walking avatar is much more complex. I feel CCP has captured the art within the CQ's for the New Eden Universe. That is a done deal. What we don't know is actually what they have done with WiS besides the CQ.

In the CQ the avatar is too stiff and far too slow when walking. The flow of movement needs to be less stiff. We may be in a pod but we did walk at some point as a species. Part of my interpretation of CCP with Eve is that they create a game that has the freedom to choose. I feel that needs to translate into the avatar. Freedom to build, freedom to act, freedom to own a Cantina, a space station, an asteroid base , or a base on a moon, a science lab to create and manufacture in. Every aspect of New Eden is glorious in the fact that it can come to life within this engine.

Perhaps I want to be a colonists and farm fungus or tera form a planet as an avatar. I would love to do this as an avatar within a system that is Eve Online and where my game play as an avatar builds from that foundation. The possibilities are endless and if I could be in your shoes CCP I would be brave and move forward. Give the micro-transaction store to the players and make it a full time player market. Make all items crafted for avatars to be made by the players. This would include modules for every aspect of the avatar. Crafting in today's MMO's are boring. Crafting in this game is a challenge!

I really have to feel that your design solutions are all in many Sci Fi novels. As a fan please show us your ideas that have been shelved such as Sec Wars. Bring ideas to the test server and let us give you feedback. I think the community would respect that. It is a good fifty year plan. ;) and your love for space since last summer is darn good :)


A very good point. A very meningful gameplay. Not this social crap or another way to farm/pvp. Freedom to build our our bases, manage it, expand as we desire. Maybe it's will grow into a huge planetary industry complex... Beatiful.

One thing that concerns me is that something like that is already implemented - it's a PI and it's not nearly that - it's strictly limited by skills, and you can invest it and expand. It's not difficult to give us a freedom in PI, but they're not gave it to us. So i don't think that we may expect freedom from WiS, even if it's not scraped...

Capsuleers are not free people, and New Eden it's not the world of freedom. It's a Jovian's farm and capsuleers are their slaves. You're mistaken. You... Are... Mistaken...
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#554 - 2012-09-27 07:00:20 UTC
JcJet wrote:
Emotions... I've never seen them in games which have them. Well, a few times in a years. I think the only use for them is "family photo" screenshots and some videos. It's the same as walking mode. Who the hell will use it in game???
But i'm walking sometimes in Entropia Universe. Why? Because it's a thinking game, where you better plan your money and business. Althrough it's fine to just hunt the monsters...

But most of the games are not thinking games, including EVE. Because you don't need to think much to earn XP and money - in eve it's the same - farming. WH, missions, plexes, this dungeon thing in the latest WiS prototype video - it's the same things! And thinking is inproffitable, because you're wasting your time which you can use for farming...

Well, let's think anyway. How can we organize our business in EVE to make a passive income which allow us to buy plex and some things for the game itself? Let's say we can invest in this something around $10.000. And what? To do that. you're need either to buy shares, or set up some establishment - shop, or a service station. It's should be scaleable. I don't see a proper tools for that. Moons are not for a single interpreneur, outpost it's also a little difficult to make some proffit - a defence can eat all of your investmens. Althrough it can be fun :)

POSes are nightmare - WTF, why should i personnaly fly at every single one of them to manage it?

Lateris wrote:
Space is a much easier design in terms of creating a virtual world. A walking avatar is much more complex. I feel CCP has captured the art within the CQ's for the New Eden Universe. That is a done deal. What we don't know is actually what they have done with WiS besides the CQ.

In the CQ the avatar is too stiff and far too slow when walking. The flow of movement needs to be less stiff. We may be in a pod but we did walk at some point as a species. Part of my interpretation of CCP with Eve is that they create a game that has the freedom to choose. I feel that needs to translate into the avatar. Freedom to build, freedom to act, freedom to own a Cantina, a space station, an asteroid base , or a base on a moon, a science lab to create and manufacture in. Every aspect of New Eden is glorious in the fact that it can come to life within this engine.

Perhaps I want to be a colonists and farm fungus or tera form a planet as an avatar. I would love to do this as an avatar within a system that is Eve Online and where my game play as an avatar builds from that foundation. The possibilities are endless and if I could be in your shoes CCP I would be brave and move forward. Give the micro-transaction store to the players and make it a full time player market. Make all items crafted for avatars to be made by the players. This would include modules for every aspect of the avatar. Crafting in today's MMO's are boring. Crafting in this game is a challenge!

I really have to feel that your design solutions are all in many Sci Fi novels. As a fan please show us your ideas that have been shelved such as Sec Wars. Bring ideas to the test server and let us give you feedback. I think the community would respect that. It is a good fifty year plan. ;) and your love for space since last summer is darn good :)


A very good point. A very meningful gameplay. Not this social crap or another way to farm/pvp. Freedom to build our our bases, manage it, expand as we desire. Maybe it's will grow into a huge planetary industry complex... Beatiful.

One thing that concerns me is that something like that is already implemented - it's a PI and it's not nearly that - it's strictly limited by skills, and you can invest it and expand. It's not difficult to give us a freedom in PI, but they're not gave it to us. So i don't think that we may expect freedom from WiS, even if it's not scraped...

Capsuleers are not free people, and New Eden it's not the world of freedom. It's a Jovian's farm and capsuleers are their slaves. You're mistaken. You... Are... Mistaken...


Huh, NEW gameplay, in EVE? That's an anathema! Evil

CCP is in "do the same old crap in slightly different ways" mode, aka "iterate the features every-25%-body loves", and will be there for a looong time.

Interesting/attracting new players is not in the plans. Keeping "politically incorrect" players is not in the plans. If you could do it 3 years ago, you won't be able to do anything else in 3 years from now.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Ghazu
#555 - 2012-09-27 07:11:57 UTC
But apparently you thought a bunch of dudes emoting each other counts as new gameplay.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#556 - 2012-09-27 13:08:17 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
But apparently you thought a bunch of dudes emoting each other counts as new gameplay.


Are you talking about me? Because I never have talked about emotes.

Also, I never said that social content was the ultimatate reason for WiS but a faster placeholder. WiS next year, not in 3 years or whenever they feel like it. A show of compromise and delivery instead of silence and senseless wait.

But all in all doesn't matters much. EVE's fate was sealed last year and no amount of chatter can derail it, so we're just talking here amidst the broken frame of what could have been the ultimate SF game.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Hiro Ceffoe
State War Academy
Caldari State
#557 - 2012-09-27 15:18:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiro Ceffoe
If I recall correctly way back before I started playing infact, CCP had created a "prototype" of WIS that they showed at Fanfest (this is going back a few years, before we had CQ)

Is it true that this prototype work was then abandoned?

How long did that work take?

Why are Team Avatar still working on prototype technology?

You also say that WIS was abandoned because it lacked functionality, what, you didn't notice that before building an engine, modeling, textures, UI development, etc?

Wasn't any concept work done?

What garauntees do you have that this project won't end the same way? Does that bother you? Or does it not matter as long as monthly subscribers keep paying, can you not just work on prototype technology until the end of EVE and never actually release anything? Are you going to do that?

Now tell me why I should care about this latest project you keep telling us about, this Exploration in Avatar form.

Summary: Currently working on it, awaiting greenlight, does not compute. Pitch > Greenlight > Development, not Develop and hope for greenlight, this development mentality gets you... well it gets you this.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#558 - 2012-09-29 15:03:03 UTC
Hiro Ceffoe wrote:
If I recall correctly way back before I started playing infact, CCP had created a "prototype" of WIS that they showed at Fanfest (this is going back a few years, before we had CQ)

Is it true that this prototype work was then abandoned?

How long did that work take?

Why are Team Avatar still working on prototype technology?

You also say that WIS was abandoned because it lacked functionality, what, you didn't notice that before building an engine, modeling, textures, UI development, etc?

Wasn't any concept work done?

What garauntees do you have that this project won't end the same way? Does that bother you? Or does it not matter as long as monthly subscribers keep paying, can you not just work on prototype technology until the end of EVE and never actually release anything? Are you going to do that?

Now tell me why I should care about this latest project you keep telling us about, this Exploration in Avatar form.

Summary: Currently working on it, awaiting greenlight, does not compute. Pitch > Greenlight > Development, not Develop and hope for greenlight, this development mentality gets you... well it gets you this.



in short:

a promise shown on an existing game engine
CCP has made his own game engine ,but they can,t handle their own software

Promise is kept on livesupport until now

R.S.I2014

Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#559 - 2012-10-10 23:48:30 UTC
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73448

Well, i guess our hopes are gone for good...

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?

Arduemont
The State of War.
#560 - 2012-10-11 00:48:00 UTC
(I apologise if Im just repeating stuff other people have said, but Its late and I can't be bothered to read the whole thread).

Firstly, I would like to say that despite being a PvPer at heart and very much enjoy flying my ship, I really would like to see some WiS. I would like to see the social aspect of the game broadened as was CCPs original intention.

We have seen glimpses of "Corporate Quarters" in a few concept UI videos not too long ago, showing the mini-games that will (hopefully) turn up sooner or later. I have to say, the idea of this "exploration" WiS, that has been mentioned makes me a little concerned they want to turn it into some kind of theme parkesque part of the game. If it comes along-side corporate quarters I will receive it happily, but if it's an "instead of" feature, I wont be much pleased.

It may be that they're putting off release until after the POS expansion, because as some WH players quite rightly point out; WiS means nothing to someone living out of a POS. There has been speculation that a new POS system will allow a limited number of people to actually fully dock up, which would mean delaying WiS content until after this expansion would mean WH corps etc would get access to it aswell.

Really though, I just want to express my want for WiS content. I think the Incarna rioting was hugely over exaggerated, and was more about CCPs terrible implementation of Incarna, rather than being hatred of the feature itself. I really want to see some WiS content, although I do think the POS work is a priority. If its an either or situation the POSes really do need to get done first, but it would be nice to see the POS changes and the WiS in the next Summer expansion.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf