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Discussion thread about WiS

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Author
Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#201 - 2012-05-15 14:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Lost True
Vaju Enki wrote:
If they implement WiS, it must include the FiS ruthless soul, or else it is worthless. People didn't sign in to play secondLife in space.

I am. If it's will be possible within EVE. A didn't sign in to play yet another MMOFPS.
So this argument is incorrect.

Yes, maybe it's should have a something from FiS gameplay, but it's not the time to even think about this. There should be more content like clothes, things for a CQ, more space for walking. There is a lot to do already.

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#202 - 2012-05-15 20:17:46 UTC
I thought about this after I noticed that an implant is a cubic meter in size, and correlating that with the plugs going down our capsuleers' spines: Implants don't go into our heads. They go into our pods. To leave your pod is to leave all your augmentations behind, to be reduced to mere flesh.

Walking in Station would be like having an implant-free jump clone in station. On the one hand, you wouldn't want to stay out of pod for very long (making the bed in the CQ pointless for resting--who wants to sleep on a bed when you could be floating in your pod, training your skills faster?). On the other hand, if you were killed, things could get complicated. If your medical clone is in another station you'd wake up without any implants, as normal, but your implant-enhanced pod would be docked at another station. That could require CCP to track pods as ships, and allow multiple pods to be docked at a given station. I'm not sure if they want to do that. If they do, though, you could potentially have different kinds of skill pods that you could swap as desired.

Maybe that could replace jump clones?

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#203 - 2012-05-16 00:24:16 UTC
Lost True wrote:

I am. If it's will be possible within EVE. A didn't sign in to play yet another MMOFPS.
So this argument is incorrect.

Yes, maybe it's should have a something from FiS gameplay, but it's not the time to even think about this. There should be more content like clothes, things for a CQ, more space for walking. There is a lot to do already.


I agree that there is much to be done before we can shoot it out (and it would have to be TPS, because FPS wouldn't make much sense in the current engine)

We do need more clothes and other accessories choices. And the ability to customize the CQ first. But yeah, the end result should be that wars and personal vendettas spill into the stations.


I'll utter a heresy aloud: I think that flying in space should have it's market taken away. Much like people automatically being visible in local it has never made sense.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#204 - 2012-05-16 00:58:55 UTC
Lost True wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
If they implement WiS, it must include the FiS ruthless soul, or else it is worthless. People didn't sign in to play secondLife in space.

I am. If it's will be possible within EVE. A didn't sign in to play yet another MMOFPS.
So this argument is incorrect.

Yes, maybe it's should have a something from FiS gameplay, but it's not the time to even think about this. There should be more content like clothes, things for a CQ, more space for walking. There is a lot to do already.


I don't need to have guns in station. I would be more then happy if we could use simple knifes to murder carebear pilots in their CQ, and then take their loot.

The Tears Must Flow

Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#205 - 2012-05-16 09:56:45 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
I thought about this after I noticed that an implant is a cubic meter in size, and correlating that with the plugs going down our capsuleers' spines: Implants don't go into our heads. They go into our pods. To leave your pod is to leave all your augmentations behind, to be reduced to mere flesh.

Walking in Station would be like having an implant-free jump clone in station. On the one hand, you wouldn't want to stay out of pod for very long (making the bed in the CQ pointless for resting--who wants to sleep on a bed when you could be floating in your pod, training your skills faster?). On the other hand, if you were killed, things could get complicated. If your medical clone is in another station you'd wake up without any implants, as normal, but your implant-enhanced pod would be docked at another station. That could require CCP to track pods as ships, and allow multiple pods to be docked at a given station. I'm not sure if they want to do that. If they do, though, you could potentially have different kinds of skill pods that you could swap as desired.

Maybe that could replace jump clones?

But why?

Implants are in capsuleer's head, why change that?

Noone will use WiS with their main characters then.

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?

Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#206 - 2012-05-16 09:57:28 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
I agree that there is much to be done before we can shoot it out (and it would have to be TPS, because FPS wouldn't make much sense in the current engine)

Yes, TPS.

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#207 - 2012-05-16 16:19:10 UTC
Lost True wrote:

But why?

Implants are in capsuleer's head, why change that?

Noone will use WiS with their main characters then.


People use implant-free jump clones now.

Implants may plug in to your head, but that doesn't mean they're in your head. You plug your laptop into the wall, but it's not in the wall.

Otherwise, why are they a meter square?

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#208 - 2012-05-16 17:04:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lost True
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Lost True wrote:

But why?

Implants are in capsuleer's head, why change that?

Noone will use WiS with their main characters then.


People use implant-free jump clones now.

Implants may plug in to your head, but that doesn't mean they're in your head. You plug your laptop into the wall, but it's not in the wall.

Otherwise, why are they a meter square?

They use them when they going to die. And jump back ASAP, when it's over.
Personally i use them everytime, even in dangerous situations. 2 improveds it's not so expensive to lose.
Well, anyway, even if there is a reason to have separate clones for WiS and FiS, it's should be posible to plug in implants in them.
And about an implants in a pod... Well, it's possible, but talking about backstories 1) in the "Empyrean Age" nowel there is a gallente woman, which says after being podded in their room something like "don't worry, with this implant i will soon recover my piloting abilities", pointing on something in her head. 2) The Amarr Emperor have used some advanced implants to sustain his life...

a meter square... well, there is a lot of fails such as this in EVE...

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#209 - 2012-05-16 20:44:29 UTC
Lost True wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
I agree that there is much to be done before we can shoot it out (and it would have to be TPS, because FPS wouldn't make much sense in the current engine)

Yes, TPS.

Why a shooter at all?

We're pilots, not space marines.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#210 - 2012-05-17 00:58:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lost True
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Lost True wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
I agree that there is much to be done before we can shoot it out (and it would have to be TPS, because FPS wouldn't make much sense in the current engine)

Yes, TPS.

Why a shooter at all?

We're pilots, not space marines.

I don't want a combat in stations, and i will not participate in those things, as well as i didn't played any of FPS/TPS in multiplayer for years. Maybe because i remember only one actually interesting one - AVP2... Oh, that's was glorious, or maybe i've just grown up - doesn't matter.

But it's obvious that most of the players there wants some combat ons station, because eve is about combat, and i think it's will be even more about combat later. It's makes more and more bored in such "Sci-Fi Simulator", like not playing the game more than a year now, but subscribed. That's another story...

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?

Bob Niac
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#211 - 2012-05-17 05:07:51 UTC
tl;dr: Get White wolf to heit the pause button to work on EVE.. Let Dust players interact directly with EVE players on stations.

Well, my view:

WiS is was never really thought out. Devs have stated this. They also are doing the right thing and looking at what is broken in EVE Classic. But... WiS is a needed thing.

One of the key reasons being Dust 514. We are now Immortal .. outside of our pod.

I can hear the "lolwut?"s right now. But listen to the crazy sumbitch in the corner. If you want corporations to be in Dust and in EVE, and TRULY be in the same corporation, then there HAS to be a place to call a middle ground. Somewhere where emergent gameplay can flourish and bonds be built.

This is in bars, in stations, in back corners of places where things go bump in the night. The dust players, in order to want to actively participate in EVE, and not just sit down, and shoot some one in the face, but truly affect the game world will need to socialize with the people that are paying them. To trust them. To be scorned by them. To lose all their **** because some asshat stole it or they gambled all away to a Jita scammer.

This is EVE. Life in EVE sucks. The players EVE (and the stuff the get away with) are brilliant, but most of all... EVE is different.

But then there is hype. Hype kills fun. It kills entire games. Hell .. it ends careers. And boy did we get the hype machine churning.

So .. let's look at this from a fiscal perspective. ALL of EVE is getting / has been corified. This facilitates growth in multiple games, such as WoD.

So .. where are we, exactly with WoD? It's in the tubes, effectively. At least from where I stand. I am going to say what no one wants to hear: Bring them on board. Get White Wolf involved in EVE, directly. None of this "Well .. we want WoD to be its' own thing," etc or "We need the assets."

Why?

You are making a game from the same engine, you are already sharing ideas and bugfixes. Bring them in, seriously. One expansion is all I am asking for. A six month run. I have seen glimmers of station environments in the way WoD cities are setup.

So bring them in, let them **** about with WiS. Let them look at PVE. Let them write the history of EVE, and the future. WW is know to have some of the most imaginitive writers... show them off. Get the EVE players excited about the company. Show them why WW working on EVE will help Dust, WoD, and more importantly, FiS.

[u]I <3 Logistics:[/u] Pilot of all  T2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use.

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#212 - 2012-05-17 06:30:41 UTC
Lost True wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Lost True wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
I agree that there is much to be done before we can shoot it out (and it would have to be TPS, because FPS wouldn't make much sense in the current engine)

Yes, TPS.

Why a shooter at all?

We're pilots, not space marines.

I don't want a combat in stations, and i will not participate in those things, as well as i didn't played any of FPS/TPS in multiplayer for years. Maybe because i remember only one actually interesting one - AVP2... Oh, that's was glorious, or maybe i've just grown up - doesn't matter.

But it's obvious that most of the players there wants some combat ons station, because eve is about combat, and i think it's will be even more about combat later. It's makes more and more bored in such "Sci-Fi Simulator", like not playing the game more than a year now, but subscribed. That's another story...

I like the idea of giving players guns but only as a honeypot: try and shoot your way through a station exploration mission and all you do is stir up the hornet's nest and make the task harder.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#213 - 2012-05-17 07:00:34 UTC
Lost True wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Lost True wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
I agree that there is much to be done before we can shoot it out (and it would have to be TPS, because FPS wouldn't make much sense in the current engine)

Yes, TPS.

Why a shooter at all?

We're pilots, not space marines.

I don't want a combat in stations, and i will not participate in those things, as well as i didn't played any of FPS/TPS in multiplayer for years. Maybe because i remember only one actually interesting one - AVP2... Oh, that's was glorious, or maybe i've just grown up - doesn't matter.

But it's obvious that most of the players there wants some combat ons station, because eve is about combat, and i think it's will be even more about combat later. It's makes more and more bored in such "Sci-Fi Simulator", like not playing the game more than a year now, but subscribed. That's another story...


Huh.

You know, if I wanted the nullsec crap, I would go to nullsec. If i wanted the combat PvP crap, I would do combat PvP crap. If i wanted to do the grief crap, i would do the grief crap. If I wanted that war crap, I would do that war crap.

Instead, i am mining pyroxeres at 48.0 ISK aboard a BS. Used to run missions with my main but burned out after some 2,000.

And guess what? No, I don't want to mine or run missions in WiS. I want something else.

Put blunty, if WiS is to be the current FiS crap but in stations, they can stuff it up where the sun never shines. Save the effort. Didn't did it in space, not gonna do it in stations.
RAP ACTION HERO
#214 - 2012-05-17 07:36:18 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Lost True wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Lost True wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
I agree that there is much to be done before we can shoot it out (and it would have to be TPS, because FPS wouldn't make much sense in the current engine)

Yes, TPS.

Why a shooter at all?

We're pilots, not space marines.

I don't want a combat in stations, and i will not participate in those things, as well as i didn't played any of FPS/TPS in multiplayer for years. Maybe because i remember only one actually interesting one - AVP2... Oh, that's was glorious, or maybe i've just grown up - doesn't matter.

But it's obvious that most of the players there wants some combat ons station, because eve is about combat, and i think it's will be even more about combat later. It's makes more and more bored in such "Sci-Fi Simulator", like not playing the game more than a year now, but subscribed. That's another story...


Huh.

You know, if I wanted the nullsec crap, I would go to nullsec. If i wanted the combat PvP crap, I would do combat PvP crap. If i wanted to do the grief crap, i would do the grief crap. If I wanted that war crap, I would do that war crap.

Instead, i am mining pyroxeres at 48.0 ISK aboard a BS. Used to run missions with my main but burned out after some 2,000.

And guess what? No, I don't want to mine or run missions in WiS. I want something else.

Put blunty, if WiS is to be the current FiS crap but in stations, they can stuff it up where the sun never shines. Save the effort. Didn't did it in space, not gonna do it in stations.


you know, if you wanted that second life crap, just go play second life?

vitoc erryday

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#215 - 2012-05-17 12:08:48 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Lost True wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Lost True wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
I agree that there is much to be done before we can shoot it out (and it would have to be TPS, because FPS wouldn't make much sense in the current engine)

Yes, TPS.

Why a shooter at all?

We're pilots, not space marines.

I don't want a combat in stations, and i will not participate in those things, as well as i didn't played any of FPS/TPS in multiplayer for years. Maybe because i remember only one actually interesting one - AVP2... Oh, that's was glorious, or maybe i've just grown up - doesn't matter.

But it's obvious that most of the players there wants some combat ons station, because eve is about combat, and i think it's will be even more about combat later. It's makes more and more bored in such "Sci-Fi Simulator", like not playing the game more than a year now, but subscribed. That's another story...


Huh.

You know, if I wanted the nullsec crap, I would go to nullsec. If i wanted the combat PvP crap, I would do combat PvP crap. If i wanted to do the grief crap, i would do the grief crap. If I wanted that war crap, I would do that war crap.

Instead, i am mining pyroxeres at 48.0 ISK aboard a BS. Used to run missions with my main but burned out after some 2,000.

And guess what? No, I don't want to mine or run missions in WiS. I want something else.

Put blunty, if WiS is to be the current FiS crap but in stations, they can stuff it up where the sun never shines. Save the effort. Didn't did it in space, not gonna do it in stations.



You know that i want want WIS as much as any other WISlover,but if you think that EVE in its current state is crap,you better search another game
WIS is not going to change your vision of EVE

R.S.I2014

Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#216 - 2012-05-17 12:39:40 UTC
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:


you know, if you wanted that second life crap, just go play second life?

While talking about "Yet another X crap", there is only 2 games of such kind as Second Life - SL itself and The Sims. First one have many issues, and second one is single player. As for other shooting games - there is a huge list of them, which updates very often. So why wait another one?

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#217 - 2012-05-17 13:28:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:


You know that i want want WIS as much as any other WISlover,but if you think that EVE in its current state is crap,you better search another game
WIS is not going to change your vision of EVE


As i've stated a few times, i don't really like EVE, rather play it because there are no alternatives. Also there should not be news that my hopes about WiS rely on it delivering DIFFERENT gameplay than "FiS on foot".

That's why i forwarded the whole "drone clones" concept, which opens endless doors to anyone brave enough to envision a game that's about more than blowing people's starships.Roll

FAI, manufacturing clones. Both regular you're-dead clones and also you're-expendable drone clones, without as much as ever climbing into a spaceship.

FAI, randomized stats for drone clones -they're nor ships from an assemby line. So hey dude, your new drone clone just got .6 more skill, out of genetical luck. You should train it for being a champion, it could be worth billions... or worth stealing/killing it.

FAI, blood arenas for drone clones. Swordfighting in EVE? Why not? A gunfight at noon? Why not? Drone clones could be cheaper than spaceships and yet sink ISK from economy...

FAI, SpecOps. infiltrate enemy installations with a highly specialyzed, expensively implanted drone clone.

And many more ideas. Not necessarily related to FiS or things people do with FiS.

Now make it worth to do in one hour, and you fix two serious problems with a single solution.

Now make the avatars, the actual ingame personas, very customizable and inspire people to get new toys for their personas, a need for uniqueness, for not being the same bloody 14 colors as everybody else, not wear the same clothes, not use the same hairdos... and people may subscribe just to get a beter toon and completely don't give a sh*t of whatever some alliance did yesterday in some irrelevant nullsec system.

Those all would be good placebos, good substitutes for what i would really love to see in EVE, which is insane enough to keep it for myself...
RAP ACTION HERO
#218 - 2012-05-17 14:28:23 UTC
Lost True wrote:
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:


you know, if you wanted that second life crap, just go play second life?

While talking about "Yet another X crap", there is only 2 games of such kind as Second Life - SL itself and The Sims. First one have many issues, and second one is single player. As for other shooting games - there is a huge list of them, which updates very often. So why wait another one?


you know you are right, i don't want another BF3 COD, those average shooter games focus on the motif of "war sport" where its like impersonal killing, racking up the killcount, no consequences in killing, or dying. dull after a while.

wis needs to focus on the motif of "murder" where it is much more personal, every kill counts and every kill is relished. it is less about the act or mechanics of killing and more about the story, your story, of the events and decisions and your own motivations that led to your current situation right now. it needs to be cinematic.

vitoc erryday

Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#219 - 2012-05-18 06:51:32 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:


You know that i want want WIS as much as any other WISlover,but if you think that EVE in its current state is crap,you better search another game
WIS is not going to change your vision of EVE

As i've stated a few times, i don't really like EVE, rather play it because there are no alternatives. Also there should not be news that my hopes about WiS rely on it delivering DIFFERENT gameplay than "FiS on foot".

That's why i forwarded the whole "drone clones" concept, which opens endless doors to anyone brave enough to envision a game that's about more than blowing people's starships.Roll

You're not alone in that.

Also those ideas with "drone clones" is quite interesting while thinking of WiS.

I've just imagined walking on station with 2 tall, heavily augmented bodyguards in a black suits on my left and right. And talking about augmentations a mean like something from Deus Ex Smile

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#220 - 2012-05-18 06:58:37 UTC
Lost True wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:


You know that i want want WIS as much as any other WISlover,but if you think that EVE in its current state is crap,you better search another game
WIS is not going to change your vision of EVE

As i've stated a few times, i don't really like EVE, rather play it because there are no alternatives. Also there should not be news that my hopes about WiS rely on it delivering DIFFERENT gameplay than "FiS on foot".

That's why i forwarded the whole "drone clones" concept, which opens endless doors to anyone brave enough to envision a game that's about more than blowing people's starships.Roll

You're not alone in that.

Also those ideas with "drone clones" is quite interesting while thinking of WiS.

I've just imagined walking on station with 2 tall, heavily augmented bodyguards in a black suits on my left and right. And talking about augmentations a mean like something from Deus Ex Smile



FAI. I have a soft spot for ST:TNG and their "holodeck Western" episodes, the anachronism was so amusing... and capsuleers are as filthy rich and ruthless as to undertake whatever blood sports they feel like, as long as somebody else provides the mortal flesh.