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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Discussion thread about WiS

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Author
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#181 - 2012-05-12 18:09:49 UTC
please don't troll this thread

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#182 - 2012-05-12 18:59:14 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
please don't troll this thread


"~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever."

Your signature beat me to it.

Personally, it should say 'imagine eve's subscriber numbers going down further and further. Forever.'

Frankly, the idea that the two have to fit the playstyle of the other is absurd. It's like saying miners should be forced to PvP. (Oh, wait, goons have said that...)

I actually like the idea of gunfights in stations. You know, it would really cut down on the station hugging if I could just dock and hunt someone's ass down and kill them. After all, eve is about risk, and there should be risk to hiding in station.

As far as the sims/social gaming stuff.... meh. I'd like to have more clothes and a customizeable CQ. If players were allowed to develop their own clothing lines, however, it would be interesting. Sadly, it's unlikely, due to the sandbox nature of the game letting people put all sorts of things on a tshirt.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#183 - 2012-05-12 20:04:17 UTC
Given what you just said about guns and hunting people down and shooting them in stations, remind me to customize my CQ with a high quality security package. Shocked
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#184 - 2012-05-12 23:52:47 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
I actually like the idea of gunfights in stations. You know, it would really cut down on the station hugging if I could just dock and hunt someone's ass down and kill them. After all, eve is about risk, and there should be risk to hiding in station.

The practical problem with talking about 'gunfights in stations' is that you then need to design an entire new combat system for WiS, which massively increases the work that needs to be done before anything is actually released. You're getting to the stage where you're basically asking for a whole new game within the existing client. And to be honest, CCP are already working on one game based around guys running around on foot in the Eve universe and shooting at each other, the likelihood that they want to reinvent the wheel and do it all over again is pretty low.

For me, the idea of WiS needs to be based around the teaser trailer CCP put out a couple of fanfests ago. For an Eve pilot, getting out of the pod should be an act of last resort, something they do reluctantly when there's no other way to achieve their goal. Disconnecting from the pod is like having a limb removed or like putting on a blindfold, it takes the pilot from being an immortal star-god to just another "Easily replaceable, carbon based, piece of meat". In that context, the idea of going and sitting in a space-pub chatting with other capsuleers or playing poker at a table to while away the hours is, frankly, laughable, and it doesn't make much sense to me that they'd want to test the limitations and mortality of their human bodies further by drawing pistols on each other outside of the safety of the capsule either.

The most recent concept Torfi talked about at fanfest, where capsuleers explore lost and abandoned structures to retrieve rare and valuable items which can't be obtained any other way, or the previous concept of carrying out secret off-the-radar missions, make sense within the backstory and provide reasons why the capsuleer is putting themselves at additional risk by getting out of their pod. I can't say that about most of the ideas I see from other players.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Gevlin
Planned Obsolescence.
No Visual.
#185 - 2012-05-13 00:19:34 UTC
in order to sell WIS to the FIS populus it needs to play like FIS. and Should include FIS in every aspect.

Safe Spot is CQ - just don't let anyone in.

Main Level High Sec rule like Concord. Only Kid friendly Play here or Stations security does its impression of Concord.
Worker and Common Class Levels - Low Sec - You can shoot some one but unless it agreed Dueling - You will have to actively hide your tracks, Hide body, Otherwise it may be found, if it is now you are a wanted man, Can't show you self on the main level, Have to keep moving to avoid the slow moving military patrol
The Lower levels - This is faction space, Null Sec faction. No one will ever know or care if you die here.
If Station Crews come down here they bring weapons and lots of them. But you will rarely See them. If the Machine does not break then Station security never comes. Hence nothing breaks down here. the Factions keep it maintain. Call it rent in a way.

New Care Bear Profession Station Mechanic.
You want me to fix what... Where? But that is on the edge of our territory. I am going to get popped the moment a put down my tool box. You better have cover for me. You know if this does not get fix station Security will come and fix it and will violently evict you in the process.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#186 - 2012-05-13 17:54:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Gevlin wrote:
in order to sell WIS to the FIS populus it needs to play like FIS. and Should include FIS in every aspect.

No, in order to sell WiS to spaceship pilots you need to provide tangible incentives for them to get out of the safety of the capsule and to put their human forms on the line. Risk vs Reward and all that. That's why 'social environments' and the NeX store are discredited concepts, because Eve isn't The Sims Online, or Second Life, or some microtransaction-riddled Facebook game, and trying to ham-fistedly crowbar these concepts into Eve when they have little connection to the existing universe is destined to produce more failures like the so-called 'expansion' that was Incarna.

Make WiS a profession worth taking up, make it an environment that provides something valuable to the Eve universe that can't be obtained elsewhere (like wormholes or incursions are), give it some actual gameplay, some game mechanics that challenge players. Make them feel the vulnerability described in the Incarna teaser trailer.That's how you generate interest in WiS while both making it something unique and keeping it within the theme of Eve.

WiS has been dismissed as a gameplay-free haven for the risk averse and the easily amused. Do you know what the perfect response to that would be? Make WiS the most dangerous and nerve-wracking experience available.

"I am no longer able to launch a volley of missiles with a single thought.
I am no longer protected by shields, armour, drones, anything. I am just a body.
Easily replaceable, carbon based, piece of meat.
It makes me sick.
"

Remove everything that the eve player normally takes for granted. Get the the capsuleer out of the comfort zone, take away their ability to kill thousands with the twitch of a synapse, take away the safety nets of the Large Armour Repairer II and the escape pod and the medbay to bail them out if things start to go wrong. Then put that capsuleer in an unknown, dark environment where suddenly, the mere mortals that had previously been beneath our attention or mere cannon fodder for our Battleships and Strategic Cruisers are on a level playing field, out for revenge for the lost comrades who crewed the rats we shoot down en masse, hunting us down by torchlight in blacked-out corridors and hangars as we race to finish hacking the computer terminal which will give us access to the next section of the station and the valuable artifacts we wish to recover.

That's a vision of WiS that fits Eve's dark environment, a vision of WiS that gives the regular capsuleer a reason to participate, a vision of WiS with teeth. And that's without even any consideration of how PvP might be incorporated.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#187 - 2012-05-13 17:56:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Scatim Helicon wrote:

The practical problem with talking about 'gunfights in stations' is that you then need to design an entire new combat system for WiS, which massively increases the work that needs to be done before anything is actually released.


Not really. The hard part is already in game (shot resolution) They'd have to add a line about LoS, but unlike in the main eve they would not have to redraw all the bounty boxes, they would just have to add them as they go. (Yes, this does mean that friendly fire might also take place, meaning you might want to think twice before discharging a powerful firearm into the crowded 4-4 concourse. Or not)

Just treat being shot dead as being podded and assign the avatar HP with zero resists. Granted, it's not Mass Effect or Crysis, but it's enough to get the job done.



Gevlin wrote:
in order to sell WIS to the FIS populus it needs to play like FIS. and Should include FIS in every aspect.

Safe Spot is CQ - just don't let anyone in.

Main Level High Sec rule like Concord. Only Kid friendly Play here or Stations security does its impression of Concord.
Worker and Common Class Levels - Low Sec - You can shoot some one but unless it agreed Dueling - You will have to actively hide your tracks, Hide body, Otherwise it may be found, if it is now you are a wanted man, Can't show you self on the main level, Have to keep moving to avoid the slow moving military patrol
The Lower levels - This is faction space, Null Sec faction. No one will ever know or care if you die here.
If Station Crews come down here they bring weapons and lots of them. But you will rarely See them. If the Machine does not break then Station security never comes. Hence nothing breaks down here. the Factions keep it maintain. Call it rent in a way.

New Care Bear Profession Station Mechanic.
You want me to fix what... Where? But that is on the edge of our territory. I am going to get popped the moment a put down my tool box. You better have cover for me. You know if this does not get fix station Security will come and fix it and will violently evict you in the process.



You seem to be confusing Eve's space stations with Warhammer 40k's space stations. I think it would more depend on standing with the owning corp and over all system sec status how 'lawless' a station is. People the owning corp like are more likely to be protected. Unliked players are more likely to be 'Don't do that' nudge nudge wink wink.

Does open up whole new possibilities for missions and war.


Scatim Helicon wrote:

That's a vision of WiS that fits Eve's dark environment, a vision of WiS that gives the regular capsuleer a reason to participate, a vision of WiS with teeth. And that's without even any consideration of how PvP might be incorporated.


Sorry, I don't embrace the EvEhammer 40k interpretation of EvE any more then I do the EvE Sims version. Grimderp has it's uses, but frankly in EvE's case, is starting to get so carried away I'm waiting to hear about a lawsuit from Games Workshop.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#188 - 2012-05-13 18:00:55 UTC
Double Post
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#189 - 2012-05-13 20:55:26 UTC
Games Workshop don't own any copyrights on a dystopian future, you know.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#190 - 2012-05-13 23:26:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Lost True
About all those posts about WiS combat and more FiS in it...

Although i'd liked such an oppertunity, one step at the time - when WiS will be properly finished, we'll see about combat.

As i said earlier, it's better if it's will be finished as something like Sims or Second Life, a good social enviroment, and there is a reason.

First reason is an obvious one - that i, and many others don't need a shooter or something like that in Eve. Because we arleady have Dust 514, and because there is A LOT of shooters on the PC market, and this industry will only grow. So what's a point to wait this "another one of them", and just like the others, play it for a couple of months in a good case and forget about it when new battlefield or CoD appear on the market.

Second reason is if it's will be something social like that, adding some combat system later on as an "addition" can make very interesting and different game. Imagine a games like The Sims with an appropriate combat system. Now that's something else Big smile

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#191 - 2012-05-14 00:06:25 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Games Workshop don't own any copyrights on a dystopian future, you know.


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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#192 - 2012-05-14 06:17:49 UTC
One day GW will remake the Dark Future game and I'll get to be Elvis Presley, Road Warrior. It will be glorious.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

M'nu
Vard School of Cryo Cuisine
#193 - 2012-05-14 12:40:00 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
Offtopic, inappropriate. Post removed. Spitfire
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#194 - 2012-05-14 14:15:48 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
One day GW will remake the Dark Future game and I'll get to be Elvis Presley, Road Warrior. It will be glorious.


That's nice but GW has a track record of not just suing people over what they really own, but the concepts of what they think they own. Their definition of their IP is rather broad.



And, if it takes having WiS working properly to get FiS, then by god I'll put up three more Incarna's to get to face shoot station huggers.
Roime
Shiva Furnace
#195 - 2012-05-14 15:26:27 UTC
xCabalx wrote:
WiS is amazing. Already the Captain's Quarter is amazing, the atmosphere (Minmatar Station) where the light of the TV hits the ground, the sound of the station etc.

I, like others have too, have so many ideas... it's just endless. I need to get them off my brain:



  • Creating big windows, so everyone inside a station can watch whats going on outside, but the ones outside can't watch what's going on inside the station to decrease performance. What I miss in EVE is the feeling, how big a destroyer really is. Imagine sitting in a room with others while a destroyer undocks.

  • Planning room for Corporations. It could contain a drawing board, in which you can type a text or draw some lines.. present links to websites.

  • ...

  • The standard hanger could be changed to something new because there is not only one ship in that big "parking" area.




etc.

Not everything can be developed, there are limits.


I like these ideas. Especially the window, or "Observation Room" is one of my favourites as it would have a strong connection with FiS.

Corp planning room should have Fleet EFT. To be able to work on fleet concepts with real pilot skills of the involved, together with your corpies in the same room is very interesting to me.

The ship hangar would be just pure awesomeness, to be able to walk among the hundreds of huge ships is also something that FiS people could like.

All these ideas fit POSes much better than stations, tbh. Stations are full of meaningless strangers, but a corp's main POS is the focus point of a small corps' life. I'd like to walk around in our SMA and admire our ships, invite everyone to Corp Quarters and watch the stars from inside. There WiS would really have meaning.

.

Gevlin
Planned Obsolescence.
No Visual.
#196 - 2012-05-14 19:18:07 UTC
I know there was a joke post from CCP on april fools about Bringing in pets into the game.

I though it would be interesting. having a Slaver Hound with me or something to greet me when I cam home to my chosen station.

But actually make them real like.
- Not this automaton that just following me.
- Give it life and character: ie
--> if I take it walking it will greet other pets, or May attack other who they think are Alpha males. Attack Minmitar characters.
--> If I don't come back to the station in a month the Pet's personality will be come distant unfriendly, or may die if not automated feeding/cleaning service is paid for in you CQ
--> If I am transporting my pet and leave it in my ship or the ship gets blown up it may die.
--> Allow stations to have laws against pets
---> Have pet able to be trained to act as attack drones.
--> Pet breading, personalities and states.
--> Actually have Pet games where yes pet will have a 50% chance of dieing if loosing or even die if winning a competition.

--> This may make having pets in public difficult and could more harm that good especially off of leash in Public.

Even though the Thought of Pets may revolt some. I would like to see these pets that actually some day to get into the game but be more than just eye candy. well except maybe Gold fish.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#197 - 2012-05-14 21:47:10 UTC
I only have one small issue and comment to all this talk about WiS and whatnots related to it..

This is another example of ccp over reaching. It seems every time they have a good idea they build the most advanced and complicated version imaginable. Using complexity and technology way beyond the current realistic goal.

The current CQ is sort of nice, but I see no reason for all the extreme levels of detail and demands on GFX!?

While ccp have pushed the potential launch date several fully functioning mmo rpgs could have been produced.

The only thing needed for WiS to actually be real is a few enviroments, and some motivation for players to use it.

Scale the carbon engine down a bit so we can get response speeds like in most other mmos. For a good current example I would suggest looking at Tornquists latest game "The Secret World".. The ambience in that is mind blowing.

Make as much as possible sandbox and let players create the content and reasons for using the added feature.

Scripted player controlled npcs. So locations controlled by players could also be populated by player 2 player content.
With such a simple feature players would potentially start co-writing the game. Sure there might be abusive content, but the same is true in local and on the forums, and entering a TS server on invite etc.. There is no safe place in EVE.

Make the WiS enviroments open to both EVE and DUST players. Also make integration with war mechanics and security status and make DUST players able to assassinate EVE players.

Or at least make some story based and rp content to explore..

I think most players would rather have something to access now, even though there isnt much content, then wait another handful of years. It can not be worse then the missioning pve atm.

Aversun
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
#198 - 2012-05-15 01:16:43 UTC
one finds this concept of docking and tracking down the weenie who thinks hiding in a station would save him from my wrath fascinating, especially since destroying the station itself to get at him would cause my corp's war dec page to explode in rage
Gevlin
Planned Obsolescence.
No Visual.
#199 - 2012-05-15 05:24:42 UTC
if only we could have gone the other path where Eve used it old style of characters.... oh well.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#200 - 2012-05-15 11:10:11 UTC
If they implement WiS, it must include the FiS ruthless soul, or else it is worthless. People didn't sign in to play secondLife in space.

The Tears Must Flow