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CCP - When are you going to do something about Tech Moons!!
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#81 - 2012-04-21 19:19:10 UTC
CEO Rockhound wrote:
Make 12 new HAC's, 8 new Command Ships, 4 new Marauders, T2 carriers, T2 dreads

2 ships a year was it? Or per expansion? Either way, 12+8+4+4+4=32 new ships would leave you waiting quite a while for such a fix.

If you're patient, I guess it's fine.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lord Dravius
Doomheim
#82 - 2012-04-21 20:55:16 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
evereplicant wrote:
And can anyone take these moons? I mean average joe? can anyone even get a moon? never in a million years is your answer!


Yes, you can. You need to go out, grab a piece of null and hold it. Same as everybody else that wants a piece of it. You have the same opportunites as everyone else!

Or were you after a reward without having to work for it?

That's just like they lies they tell us in real life. Old money always wins. You can't go up against the hundreds of titans the alliances will throw at you.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#83 - 2012-04-21 20:57:35 UTC
Lord Dravius wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
evereplicant wrote:
And can anyone take these moons? I mean average joe? can anyone even get a moon? never in a million years is your answer!


Yes, you can. You need to go out, grab a piece of null and hold it. Same as everybody else that wants a piece of it. You have the same opportunites as everyone else!

Or were you after a reward without having to work for it?

That's just like they lies they tell us in real life. Old money always wins. You can't go up against the hundreds of titans the alliances will throw at you.

Yep, just the elite players of Band of Brothers.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lord Dravius
Doomheim
#84 - 2012-04-21 21:10:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Dravius
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lord Dravius wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
evereplicant wrote:
And can anyone take these moons? I mean average joe? can anyone even get a moon? never in a million years is your answer!


Yes, you can. You need to go out, grab a piece of null and hold it. Same as everybody else that wants a piece of it. You have the same opportunites as everyone else!

Or were you after a reward without having to work for it?

That's just like they lies they tell us in real life. Old money always wins. You can't go up against the hundreds of titans the alliances will throw at you.

Yep, just the elite players of Band of Brothers.

Only lost after their devhax were taken away. The current alliances still have have their version of T2 BPOs, tech moons. Also, your average big alliance now has more capitals than even existed back then.
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#85 - 2012-04-21 21:11:46 UTC
You do realise that a single tech moon makes around 10 billion isk a month right? Requires almost daily maintenance by a hauler, someone to fly it safely to where it can be used/sold. The space must be defended, patrolled, sov payed for, man hours of gametime fuelling and boring as hell silo maintenance right? You know all this because you know all aboue Eve yeah? Not to mention the warfare it took to gain that moon and hold it.

You also know that the income from however many tech moons is then used to pay for sov, pay for replacements in huge fights, pay for new upgrades, stations and teh general day to day running of a large alliance which is phenominally expensive. You know all this am I right?

This isk is used to support literally thousands of people.

A single player can easily make 20 to 30 billion isk a month running incursions, if he has the time. In hisec. Virtually risk free. No overheads apart from a ship. No responsibilities to look after anyone but his own wallet.


Yep, seems fair to me to say that nullsec alliances should be punished for making isk. Not as though they have to work for it or risk anything.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Lord Dravius
Doomheim
#86 - 2012-04-21 21:16:17 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
You do realise that a single tech moon makes around 10 billion isk a month right? Requires almost daily maintenance by a hauler, someone to fly it safely to where it can be used/sold. The space must be defended, patrolled, sov payed for, man hours of gametime fuelling and boring as hell silo maintenance right? You know all this because you know all aboue Eve yeah? Not to mention the warfare it took to gain that moon and hold it.

You also know that the income from however many tech moons is then used to pay for sov, pay for replacements in huge fights, pay for new upgrades, stations and teh general day to day running of a large alliance which is phenominally expensive. You know all this am I right?

This isk is used to support literally thousands of people.

A single player can easily make 20 to 30 billion isk a month running incursions, if he has the time. In hisec. Virtually risk free. No overheads apart from a ship. No responsibilities to look after anyone but his own wallet.


Yep, seems fair to me to say that nullsec alliances should be punished for making isk. Not as though they have to work for it or risk anything.

LOL@Whining that high sec is where all the money is.
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#87 - 2012-04-21 21:26:38 UTC
Lord Dravius wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
You do realise that a single tech moon makes around 10 billion isk a month right? Requires almost daily maintenance by a hauler, someone to fly it safely to where it can be used/sold. The space must be defended, patrolled, sov payed for, man hours of gametime fuelling and boring as hell silo maintenance right? You know all this because you know all aboue Eve yeah? Not to mention the warfare it took to gain that moon and hold it.

You also know that the income from however many tech moons is then used to pay for sov, pay for replacements in huge fights, pay for new upgrades, stations and teh general day to day running of a large alliance which is phenominally expensive. You know all this am I right?

This isk is used to support literally thousands of people.

A single player can easily make 20 to 30 billion isk a month running incursions, if he has the time. In hisec. Virtually risk free. No overheads apart from a ship. No responsibilities to look after anyone but his own wallet.


Yep, seems fair to me to say that nullsec alliances should be punished for making isk. Not as though they have to work for it or risk anything.

LOL@Whining that high sec is where all the money is.


Im not whining in teh slightest, I make plenty, my corp makes a hell of alot of isk right here (no we dont have a tech moon..), I was just pointing out that technetium doesnt actually make that much isk in teh big picture, and it certainly doesnt create isk out of thin air like incursions do.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#88 - 2012-04-21 21:28:06 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
Im not whining in teh slightest, I make plenty, my corp makes a hell of alot of isk right here (no we dont have a tech moon..), I was just pointing out that technetium doesnt actually make that much isk in teh big picture, and it certainly doesnt create isk out of thin air like incursions do.

How's the ratting and mining in the space where you are? I only went down once or twice chasing escalations.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc.
Plucky Adventurers
#89 - 2012-04-21 21:28:59 UTC
Lord Dravius wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
You do realise that a single tech moon makes around 10 billion isk a month right? Requires almost daily maintenance by a hauler, someone to fly it safely to where it can be used/sold. The space must be defended, patrolled, sov payed for, man hours of gametime fuelling and boring as hell silo maintenance right? You know all this because you know all aboue Eve yeah? Not to mention the warfare it took to gain that moon and hold it.

You also know that the income from however many tech moons is then used to pay for sov, pay for replacements in huge fights, pay for new upgrades, stations and teh general day to day running of a large alliance which is phenominally expensive. You know all this am I right?

This isk is used to support literally thousands of people.

A single player can easily make 20 to 30 billion isk a month running incursions, if he has the time. In hisec. Virtually risk free. No overheads apart from a ship. No responsibilities to look after anyone but his own wallet.


Yep, seems fair to me to say that nullsec alliances should be punished for making isk. Not as though they have to work for it or risk anything.

LOL@Whining that high sec is where all the money is.



LOL at your inability to read and draw logical conclusions
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#90 - 2012-04-21 21:38:50 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
Im not whining in teh slightest, I make plenty, my corp makes a hell of alot of isk right here (no we dont have a tech moon..), I was just pointing out that technetium doesnt actually make that much isk in teh big picture, and it certainly doesnt create isk out of thin air like incursions do.

How's the ratting and mining in the space where you are? I only went down once or twice chasing escalations.



Trusec isnt great but hubs are very numerous so easy to do. I dont mine in nullsec but I hear you can make decent amount now mins are up and mining is coming back into fashion.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#91 - 2012-04-21 23:25:57 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:


That's an odd thing for CCP Soundwave to say.

When CCP Soundwave actually hates something it is REMOVED FROM THE GAME in one patch with no attempt to balance out the negative effects it will have on viability of whole regions of space.

You know, the Drone Mineral Nerf.

So it's really strange that he hates it but seems oddly powerless to actually get rid of it. Given his willingness to send the economy into chaos because "mining needs to be important because it does".

And Drone Mineral Nerf was worse than a mistake.

It was removal of content.


Well, the main focus definitely seems to be getting rid of non industrial industry of the low/null materials. Back to needing a solid industry base to run large and high tech production. The moon minerals are simply too hardcoded to probably remove from industry so instead will be moved. Mining will likely end up being a roving system. The way described, it might also be safer since there will be scannable locations. Scanning requirements does give attentive groups time to hide.

As for the removal of drone poo, I did a bit on that here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=98759

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Celi Annor
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2012-04-22 22:59:26 UTC
200k
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#93 - 2012-04-23 01:12:31 UTC
Lord Dravius wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lord Dravius wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
evereplicant wrote:
And can anyone take these moons? I mean average joe? can anyone even get a moon? never in a million years is your answer!


Yes, you can. You need to go out, grab a piece of null and hold it. Same as everybody else that wants a piece of it. You have the same opportunites as everyone else!

Or were you after a reward without having to work for it?

That's just like they lies they tell us in real life. Old money always wins. You can't go up against the hundreds of titans the alliances will throw at you.

Yep, just the elite players of Band of Brothers.

Only lost after their devhax were taken away. The current alliances still have have their version of T2 BPOs, tech moons. Also, your average big alliance now has more capitals than even existed back then.


also Google drone clusterfuck

what is it 190 rifters every secone's worth of money generated by Goonie tech moons? a Titan every day and a half?

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#94 - 2012-04-23 01:23:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
also Google drone clusterfuck

what is it 190 rifters every secone's worth of money generated by Goonie tech moons? a Titan every day and a half?

I'm told we could lose one a second, 190 sounds a bit too massive...

As for titans, they are subsidized but not (I think) straight-out paid for by alliance. There's enough rich people about to keep the CSAAs busy, or so I hear. Bringing blobs to tit-

Wait, titans has always been about blobbing, haha~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Calorn Marthor
Standard Fuel Company
#95 - 2012-04-23 14:43:20 UTC
I have but one problem with the current Technetium bottleneck.

It is not the regional distribution - different areas with different value are fine.
It is not the fact that individals or small corps are not likely to have access.
It is not that moons are passive income.

My problem is that the total output of Technetium in the universe is FIXED.

It is highly unlikely that someone will stumble over an unused Technetium-Moon, so basically this goo is produced at a fixed rate - if all towers are operational (and the rate is probably something like 25,000 per hour).

Now this output determines the MAXIMUM T2 PRODUCTION of the galaxy.
And no one can do anything against it. The only way to save Technetium is to fly ships that need relatively small amounts.
The production can't be increased.

Even worse: the more valuable the stuff is, the more likely conflicts will arise that put Tech-Towers in reinforced mode and reduce the production EVEN MORE!

I hope the upcoming changes to moon materials address this issue.
Imo the moons could still stay as passive income sources for large entities.
But there has to be another way to get this material, even if that means much more effort (at current price levels it would even be profitable to run a POS that can only extract 1 Technetium per hour!)
Compare Technetium to Oil in the real world - once the price goes up, people can invent new technologies to get more oil - just they are not AS efficient.