My EVE

Back to the topic, trying to explain away sociopathic behavior as somehow not being real because it is done through a digital medium is really no different than saying that making death threats to people over the phone in a funny voice and a made up name is also not harassment or antisocial behavior.

If you act like an ahole in Eve, it probably means you're too cowardly to act like an ahole in real life. Eve is a safe place where you can be an ahole anonymously and avoid the social consequences of being a jerk.

I think you could play the role of a ruthless pirate, as in kill everything on sight, and not be a jerk or ill, for that matter, in real life.

But if you enjoy other people's misery or if your intent is to "collect tears" because it makes you feel better, even if using a game as a tool to realize this, I have no doubts whatsoever that you are an ill individual in real life. To me it is all about intent.

You can deny it all you want. If you enjoy "tears" or making others' gaming experience miserable this is no longer an in-game personality that you can attribute to your "character". Your enjoyment is yours, as in the real you. In other words, if ruining a real person's day because it gives the real you real pleasure, even if it is through a game, then you are psychologically ill.

But Serene Repose said it best some few pages back, this will not make sense to a sociopath. Attempting to explain a sociopath why it is he's a sociopath is like attempting to tell a rock it's a rock. That part of the brain simply will not register.

It's the same go around as someone saying "I'm not crazy" makes them look more crazy.

See, that's the thing. I don't think you could play a "griefer" or a jerk. If you're "playing" it is because you are. I don't buy for a minute that your character is a grief player and that you yourself don't enjoy his grief play. You could tell me that you are a pastor who rescues women and children from the streets and would never do this "in real life" while enjoying being a grief player 'in-game' only. I don't buy it. There's no such thing as being a weekend or part-time jerk/sociopath. And again, using a game as a tool to inflict real life pain is not an excuse.

By the way, I've noticed that just as in the case of your friend, many of the people who enjoy grief play tend to claim they are saints in real life that help the elderly cross streets, turn in lost wallets, and feed the needy. I'm not saying everyone is lying, but I find it interesting that 'in-game' sociopaths tend to claim they are the opposite of what they play. Case in point, The Mittani's owner. Actions have proven otherwise.

I'll just add that PVP play is not grief play or being a jerk. The problem, as I see it, is that PVP play, because of the way it's been set up, attracts many ill-intent types and then disguise their actions under the pretense that "it's just a game".

So to answer your question more clearly:

You cannot play a grief-player or a jerk. You either are or you aren't. Why? Because if your intentions are to make real people angry and miserable, then it is no longer just a pretend for you. You're actually looking to provoke real and ill emotions from the person behind the avatar and not the avatar itself. The same goes for asshats.

Being a spy does not necessarily make you a grief player, sociopath, or whatever (as long as you keep the context completely within the game).

I'll also add that even though I have concerns for other legitimate PVP activities such as gate camping, suicide ganking, etc, not all players that engage in these are sociopaths. BUT, it is a great way for these types to get their kicks and giggles and I would expect many to be involved in these activities.

Edit: I'll just emphasize that I DON'T THINK PVP OR PIRACY IS GRIEF PLAY OR ANTI-SOCIAL BEHAVIOR. Real life good people can definitely engage in piracy and PVP in the game. There's a rather loud group of ill-intentioned players that give it a bad name. I'd like to think it's a small minority, but who knows.

I'm surprised this thread is still going.


I won't launch into a sermon about embracing your bad-side so you can create real drama. I won't ramble about how saying it's only a game waters your ill-intentions down and gives the impression you feel your mark is stupid.


I liken it to grudge sex. We've all done it and enjoyed it ... Heck, some even may feel a little guilty afterwards. But deep down inside, you KNOW you'd do it again.

That's you, but some players do actively intend to grief the player not just the character. What percentage of players who knows but it only takes a small percentage to get noticed.

No, but it might make you a sociopath.

Same situation here. When i made this guy way back in '05 i had plans of being the ultimate evil space pirate. But since then i've learned a bit more about myself, and discovered i just don't have that in me. Can't even pretend.

I've also tried to do 'evil' playthroughs of various games like Mass Effect and found my heart is just not in it. Never get very far.

So, you haven't yet worked out what Eve is about? And you write so intelligently...

I think I can explain why you did what you did - simply - adrenaline and boredom.

Alex (mittani) said that he was getting bored and so he joined in a ganking run and found it invigorating. I think you have the same problem - in fact I think all people that have played this game for over 3 years come to the realisation that there is a remarkable lack of purpose in this game, usually after they have tried it all (or said they have)

But to put this post back on topic - imo the people that grief in this game - and griefing to me is harvesting "tears" - are like that in RL. No doubt about that. These are the people that are sadistic and selfish - or should I say self centred and get pleasure from making others miserable. However, here is my take on this.

I believe they CANNOT help themselves. They are a victim of genes and environment coupled with repression and resentment which have rewired their brain into receiving dopamine (pleasure signals) instead of guilt. As I believe that homosexuality has a chemical base - so those that are sadistic and masochistic are wired so.


So, just another speculative post - but I have a feeling that I am right...

The logical consequence of your position is that there is no hope, that these are at base level defective people. They will not change, they cannot change and even if they wish to change their scripting and coding will keep pulling them into the rut like an old fashion vinyl lp that once its starts skipping can never stop.

If you move away from this position, they can give themselves the permission to change if the time and conditions become appropriate for them. When you rub this in peoples faces, even though it seems true, you condemn them to force themselves to stay that way.

Its weird, Its kinda Eastern stuff, I only learned it myself a couple years ago though I spent a lifetime wondering why people didn't treat me like this when I was an A-hole.