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Virtual Psychopathy in New Eden

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Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#41 - 2012-04-20 12:14:54 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
But with the guy in Sweden stating publicly that he prepared himself for a massacre of 77 people by playing World of Warcraft and Call of Duty, you can be that this discussion in the real world is not over.


Norway, and from someone that was in one of his guilds several years ago he's talking absolute bullshit. He played games to avoid RL social contact, that's the closest to "prepairing" it got.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Xervish Krin
Intaki Fine Stationery Solutions
#42 - 2012-04-20 12:18:24 UTC
When you play eve, you're agreeing to play by the rules of the game. The same is true for any game.

If you take all my pieces in chess without mercy, I don't call you a psychopath who clearly has no regard for my feelings or my poor poor bishop. I agreed when I sat down to play that if I put the bishop where it could be taken, it could be taken.

If you blow up my ship, it's no different. The fact that I'm more attached to it than a bishop is irrelevant; I agreed when I flew it that it could be blown up. If you make an alliance, you agree it can be betrayed. If you give money to a scammer, you agree to whatever skewed contract they offered. You don't get to make up extra rules where nobody gets to touch the stuff that's important to you any more than I can declare that my bishops can only be taken by a king.

Play by the rules or don't play at all. It isn't others' fault that you care so much about your space pixels that you think they deserve a magic exception.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#43 - 2012-04-20 12:25:33 UTC
Xervish Krin wrote:

It isn't others' fault that you care so much about your space pixels that you think they deserve a magic exception.


Unless they actually consist of exceptionally magical and wonderful space pixels. Like Shiva ships do.

.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-04-20 12:30:34 UTC
Opertone wrote:
I hate exploiters. I dislike people who want to **** into my virtual life.
You have a lot of anger, sir.

The in-game pacifists seem to be the angriest, cruellest players of the bunch ... they would benefit so much from some good old fashioned Exhumer ganking.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-04-20 12:33:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Ban Bindy wrote:
Psychopath is a very extreme word and I would not use it to describe what goes on in most of the game. But with the guy in Sweden stating publicly that he prepared himself for a massacre of 77 people by playing World of Warcraft and Call of Duty, you can be that this discussion in the real world is not over.

Yeah, I'm going to believe anything that comes out of that guy's mouth.

He could very well have a beef against video games. What better way to turn a negative light on to them than to claim that they prepared him to kill 77 people.
Dr Silkworth
#46 - 2012-04-20 12:39:38 UTC
So you think anger is a punishable offense? How about your own?
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-04-20 12:41:03 UTC
Dr Silkworth wrote:
So you think anger is a punishable offense? How about your own?
Who are you talking too?
Dr Silkworth
#48 - 2012-04-20 12:42:07 UTC
Now lets talk about guilt?
Whitehound
#49 - 2012-04-20 12:50:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
The longer a comment the more likely it is nonsense...

When you buy GTCs then you should know that the money you spend on it is gone and will not come back. This is all one needs to understand. Your stuff will explode one day and the how will not matter. You will close your account because you have grown out of the game, less time for it or because you died and your stuff will sit in a database until the bits start to rot. There is nothing psychopathic about it. The real loss is made the moment you buy GTCs.

The only bad person is the one who spends more real money on a game than he can afford to lose.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Just Alter
Futures Abstractions
#50 - 2012-04-20 12:52:01 UTC
I completely disagree with everything you have written, you're deluding yourself

People dont behave in the real world as they do in eve because they have more to lose (their life)

I'd suggest reading the work of zimbardo and pinker and marc macyoung on these points
Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-04-20 12:52:26 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Why is it the smartest people in the world always agree with me? Funny that,no?

The OP "seems" to make sense if one applies...


No one thinks that people aren't real when you are playing in a virtual game. The difference that you have to understand is that your actions ARE different. Otherwise PvP would be much worse than stealing. Have you never killed another player in EVE or any other game ever? Did you not feel accomplishment by outperforming another person in a competitive way? Im sure you can understand that. Now you just have to realize that while most games just have killing eachother as the only competitive way of engaging, EVE allows you to lie and cheat and steal.

Just like Im sure you don't murder thousands of people in RL like you do in EVE Im sure the fact that people steal or lie in EVE does not affect if they do in RL.

Ferox #1
Mugged Yougot
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-04-20 13:20:38 UTC
Justice Comes wrote:
It seems perfectly reasonable that someone who spends all day trying to scam people in Jita would be more likely to cheat (at small things at least) IRL. There is no hard line between the fantasy and reality other than what you put there yourself, and everyone is different.
Guess SW:TOR turned me into an outlaw then, because after playing that game there are few things that amuse me more than tears. But everyone know's that gaming automatically turns you into a sociopathic serial-killer, so why am I writing this post? o.O
Ackemi
The Gaming Avenue
Shadow Ultimatum
#53 - 2012-04-20 13:24:09 UTC
I just want to thank everyone for the sincere thought put into this thread. I have enjoyed it greatly!

During this discussion, we've experienced at least three of what I would consider "real life" viewpoints of this very valued topic. (There may be more and I'm too dense to catch them...)

I think the important thing to remember is that in real life (and Eve since "Eve is Real") all the different viewpoints are VALID when dealing with other people. YMMV...



It's almost a disservice to human complexity that societies strive to apply/enforce only one viewpoint at any given time to its people for any specific topic.



Make of that what you will...
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#54 - 2012-04-20 13:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
OP is so cool.

We should all go to OP's blog and read it every day. So much excellent stuff from OP. Just WOW!!! I don't judge, I just say it how it is.

*waits for wallet to blink*



PS hatred towards EVE Uni is completely Okay!! Okay!?!?
Dr Silkworth
#55 - 2012-04-20 13:55:34 UTC
Could we really be talking about something as simple a unsportsmanlike conduct even if were extending it from ship pvp to the market coups?
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2012-04-20 14:28:56 UTC
You can't label some gamers with a psychiatric condition because they find fun in causing some distress to others, it's nothing different from teenagers acting cruel to the ones they don't like in highschool because they're different.
Some people will drink to illness, others will do some sports, or perform another hobby IRL, and some people act up in virtual spaceships. They might have a problem, but it has nothing to do with the game itself and I'm pretty sure eve online isn't part of the clinical diagnosis process.
Psychopathy is a mental illness someone is born with, not to be confused with the violent psychotics. Sociopathy is inherited through environmental influences over childhood. Both are antisocial behaviours showing a lack of emotional response to good or evil, no empathy. You can't compare that with greed.
The impulses of a guy tricking someone over the internet for some (virtual) profit, is nothing compared to a psychopathetic impulses.
If every person manipulating others, or taking advantage of a situation for their personal benefit was to be labeled psychopaths, the guy sneaking before you to get a better place in the theater while you look behind you for a few seconds, would be a psychopath as well, the guy selling you car as well, and the girl on the phone trying to sell you a new lawn mower with a mortgage. We would all be psychopaths actually...
Parents mistakes in educting a child, don't necessarily lead to severe mental diseases, psychology today and other junk magazines are doing serious damages though.
Also, it's almost been a month now, the goons-bashing threads, as disguised as they might be, are growing really old. Wait, isn't that a pattern of obsessional and compulsive behaviours... News of the hour: Virtual Tourettes have invaded New Eden.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#57 - 2012-04-20 14:34:19 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
No, sociopaths don't feel any emotion. Eve players obviously get a lot of enjoyment out of whatever they do Cool


Well, the excited rush i spoke of before is pretty much the only pleasure they can feel, and it's brief. So chasing that becomes an obsession. They keep seeking out people to harm, and then doing more and more harmful things to people, in order to get that fleeting high again. They're also often 'thrill seekers' for the same reason.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Dr Silkworth
#58 - 2012-04-20 14:37:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Silkworth
Sin: Who told you you can't?

Bane: That rush? Its worth exploring. Adrenalin followed by an endorphin release? Anger and ego. Socially I'm conditioned to be uncomfortable with them in extremes. Under victory conditions I'm allright with them if I keep a sportsman like lid on them.

Or am I pscyo too? :) Being a carebear at heart I'm not super familiar with this rush real often.

Perhaps I need to gank an ibis before I speak anymore?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#59 - 2012-04-20 14:41:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
I try to avoid judging others, although in reality that is impossible to do.

For my own conduct, and my own internal judgement of the actions of people I choose to associate with in game, I tend to use the following.

Do what you wish, attack/gank/scam if you will, but remember you can be ruthless and still have class.

Mock who you wish, but remember you can display your rapier like wit and still have class.

Don't go out of your way to intentionally hurt someone in their real life, don't accuse them of sleeping with their recently deceased father... or make lewd suggestions about their 8yr girl (as I have witnessed happen before), as quite simply doing such things display no class.

You can insert the word unsportsmanlike if you prefer, but to me the word class describes a more personal and deeper level of your approach to these situations.

You can be an honest (even heroic) person in reality and still portray an amazingly devious and dangerous fiend in game, the only common theme between the two should be the level of class you maintain in both worlds.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#60 - 2012-04-20 14:56:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Ranger 1 wrote:
I try to avoid judging others, although in reality that is impossible to do.


In my case at least, i learned so much about these people because someone i thought was a friend in real life, completely blind sided me. I always knew there was something about him that was a little off, but i never really thought about it until it was too late. And i don't mean he did anything minor. This guy stalked me and vandalized my property for 10 years during the night, and during the day was out there convincing people i was a child molester. The reason i'm so outspoken on the issue is because unless you're one of these people yourself, you just don't think anyone is capable of doing that, and even if you do, the last person you expect is the guy pretending to be your friend. I hope to stop someone else from learning about them the hard way.

But on the bright side of things i'm now a psychopaths worst nightmare.

I know them better than they know themselves. Twisted

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi