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CYNO REGULATIONS - Serious Questions & Discussion
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non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#41 - 2012-04-20 03:11:49 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
It isn't hard to have a cyno at a safe spot. Besides not many people would cyno into a system with lots of people flying around with combat probes on their ships. The odds of that a fairly rare.

Some people might start trying to catch them but by the time you reship into a combat probing ship and start trying to scan down the incoming ship. It would have warped off towards station/highsec-gate before you can locate it and warp to it. I bet most the time, all you'd find is the cyno frigate sitting there. You have to be lucky to be in the right place with the right ships. If I thought there were too many people in a system and I thought they could scan down my ship once it jumps into system. I would probably hold off on the cyno until things are better or find a quiet system to use instead.

So many reasons why it wouldn't change much in game.
Zleon Leigh
#42 - 2012-04-20 03:52:48 UTC
Sure, let's make it even harder for small corps to live in nullSec.

0/10 for the troll

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#43 - 2012-04-20 06:05:14 UTC
non judgement wrote:
It isn't hard to have a cyno at a safe spot. Besides not many people would cyno into a system with lots of people flying around with combat probes on their ships. The odds of that a fairly rare.

Some people might start trying to catch them but by the time you reship into a combat probing ship and start trying to scan down the incoming ship. It would have warped off towards station/highsec-gate before you can locate it and warp to it. I bet most the time, all you'd find is the cyno frigate sitting there. You have to be lucky to be in the right place with the right ships. If I thought there were too many people in a system and I thought they could scan down my ship once it jumps into system. I would probably hold off on the cyno until things are better or find a quiet system to use instead.

So many reasons why it wouldn't change much in game.

Holy crap, you're not allowed to have an opinion on mechanics ever again.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#44 - 2012-04-20 06:08:38 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
non judgement wrote:
It isn't hard to have a cyno at a safe spot. Besides not many people would cyno into a system with lots of people flying around with combat probes on their ships. The odds of that a fairly rare.

Some people might start trying to catch them but by the time you reship into a combat probing ship and start trying to scan down the incoming ship. It would have warped off towards station/highsec-gate before you can locate it and warp to it. I bet most the time, all you'd find is the cyno frigate sitting there. You have to be lucky to be in the right place with the right ships. If I thought there were too many people in a system and I thought they could scan down my ship once it jumps into system. I would probably hold off on the cyno until things are better or find a quiet system to use instead.

So many reasons why it wouldn't change much in game.

Holy crap, you're not allowed to have an opinion on mechanics ever again.

I think (hope?) it was satire trolling. Very avant garde trolling, sir. ( /dons EvE monocle... there should be an emote for that)

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#45 - 2012-04-20 06:35:37 UTC
Lanasak wrote:
i love it when empiredwellers talk about nullsec logistics so authoritatively from the perspective of the veldspar belt

It's fine, as long as they package that veldspar into 425mm Railgun Is (or whatever we use now) and sell them to us to JF down to make more supercapitals !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lanasak
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-04-20 08:00:24 UTC
non judgement wrote:
It isn't hard to have a cyno at a safe spot. Besides not many people would cyno into a system with lots of people flying around with combat probes on their ships. The odds of that a fairly rare.

Some people might start trying to catch them but by the time you reship into a combat probing ship and start trying to scan down the incoming ship. It would have warped off towards station/highsec-gate before you can locate it and warp to it. I bet most the time, all you'd find is the cyno frigate sitting there. You have to be lucky to be in the right place with the right ships. If I thought there were too many people in a system and I thought they could scan down my ship once it jumps into system. I would probably hold off on the cyno until things are better or find a quiet system to use instead.

So many reasons why it wouldn't change much in game.


cynos don't show up system wide and cannot be warped to from anywhere in the system by simply being clicked on in the overview, nope
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#47 - 2012-04-20 12:44:15 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Sure, let's make it even harder for small corps to live in nullSec.

0/10 for the troll


0/10 for your post indeed, try harder.
Citrute
Therapy.
The Initiative.
#48 - 2012-04-20 13:47:25 UTC
Lanasak wrote:
i love it when empiredwellers talk about nullsec logistics so authoritatively from the perspective of the veldspar belt

I love it when nulsec nap bears post with their alts and think they know anything but how to lock a primary and press f1.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#49 - 2012-04-20 14:28:51 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
KrakizBad wrote:
non judgement wrote:
It isn't hard to have a cyno at a safe spot. Besides not many people would cyno into a system with lots of people flying around with combat probes on their ships. The odds of that a fairly rare.

Some people might start trying to catch them but by the time you reship into a combat probing ship and start trying to scan down the incoming ship. It would have warped off towards station/highsec-gate before you can locate it and warp to it. I bet most the time, all you'd find is the cyno frigate sitting there. You have to be lucky to be in the right place with the right ships. If I thought there were too many people in a system and I thought they could scan down my ship once it jumps into system. I would probably hold off on the cyno until things are better or find a quiet system to use instead.

So many reasons why it wouldn't change much in game.

Holy crap, you're not allowed to have an opinion on mechanics ever again.

I'm completely at least 500% sure that I'm 150% accurate.

Edit: Oh my god... I'm thinking of something else... No wait that's multiplication. This is all okay.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#50 - 2012-04-21 09:16:39 UTC
Has anyone actually tried to catch a JF or another traveling capital ship? Is there a way to catch them effectively without requiring some sort of gimmick involving being extremely unlucky or mobilizing a 1000 people?

Seems like the ones who disagree to this have no intention of catching their enemies in the first place and care only about their own survival. Would an unkillable ship with infinite HP be acceptable in EVE? It seems that, for those who do not wish to PVP at all, it would be.
Medarr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-04-21 10:44:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Medarr
non judgement wrote:
It isn't hard to have a cyno at a safe spot. Besides not many people would cyno into a system with lots of people flying around with combat probes on their ships. The odds of that a fairly rare.

Some people might start trying to catch them but by the time you reship into a combat probing ship and start trying to scan down the incoming ship. It would have warped off towards station/highsec-gate before you can locate it and warp to it. I bet most the time, all you'd find is the cyno frigate sitting there. You have to be lucky to be in the right place with the right ships. If I thought there were too many people in a system and I thought they could scan down my ship once it jumps into system. I would probably hold off on the cyno until things are better or find a quiet system to use instead.

So many reasons why it wouldn't change much in game.


+1

aside from the fact that you can warp to a cyno beacon. Its the covert cyno that doesnt show up on overview
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-04-21 10:57:06 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Mara Villoso wrote:

describing current cyno mechanics
make your case without resorting to "EVE is too easy."


simple: "uninteresting".

won't work. so simple and regular task as travelling doesn't need to be 'interesting'. It needs to be fast and easy. Elsewere why travel at all?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#53 - 2012-04-21 11:04:55 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
The thing I want when enjoying CONCORD advertisements on WiS TV is Jimbo001's Titan jumping into my sorry ass. boom.

This quote has not been altered

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#54 - 2012-04-21 11:29:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Gogela wrote:

Remove jump engines from JFs and increase their cargo holds to twice that of normal freighters. Increase HP... allow them to carry caps. Solved.

**not sure how to deal with the caps in empire issue that would pop up. Maybe make caps contraband in highsec and allow players to shoot at people taking them through?


Increasing the JF fuel consumption by an order of magnitude also solves the issue, but in a better way.

Want to make or save money hauling lots of things at once? Use a freighter!
Need a lots of things hauled fast and/or really safe, no matter the cost? Use a JF!

The simple problem is that with a JF you can get 'fast', 'safe' and still make/save tons of money.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-04-21 11:38:45 UTC
The fact that you have to pay for a cyno jump with fuel seems, at least in part, compensatory for the precision and speed with which the jump can be done..
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#56 - 2012-04-21 11:39:26 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Herping yourDerp wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Ghoest wrote:
cyno freight ruined EVE



This.

first true statment by master nerd troll

Agreed x2... true statement and nerdguy is a troll.

/headexplosion

Remove jump engines from JFs and increase their cargo holds to twice that of normal freighters. Increase HP... allow them to carry caps. Solved.

**not sure how to deal with the caps in empire issue that would pop up. Maybe make caps contraband in highsec and allow players to shoot at people taking them through?


Yep, a jump freighter without an actual jump drive how does one call this, a freighter?
That combined with the suggestion for a 15 km jump in for cyno'd in cap ships just shows you guys only want very easy, very, very juicy targets.
Dark Drifter
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#57 - 2012-04-21 12:03:04 UTC
Mara Villoso wrote:
You have provided the answer yourself: a stargate is a giant cyno beacon, therefore its "cyno sphere" (arrival point) is much larger than the ship fitted version, which is very small. From an immersion perspective (and game design), there is also the issue of high volume traffic paths have to account for many, many ships jumping through at once, so that gate is larger to provide extra landing places. Finally, you should already know that you're not at risk of someone crashing through your quarters; ships bounce off stations. Anyone familiar with jumping should know that if you end up inside something else, you're simply pushed out. Fear not station based couch potato, you're in no danger.

Strangely, your post doesn't actually make a case for your desired outcome. Why, exactly, should it be changed? Oh and (to use your ridiculous constraints), make your case without resorting to "EVE is too easy."



FYI jump gate tech and cyno tech only have one thing in common, that is the ability to move ships across vast distances in an instant...

a jump gates point of origin is the same as that of the cyno (the center point of the gate. the reason you can jump at 2.5k from a gate in eve is only because having every ship move into the jump gate launcher is impractical and would mean anything up to an hour wait to jum in a place like jita.

i agree with the OP that cynos are to presice. a frigit can plant over 1000 ships within 5k of its self in a second.
this is a little op. my personal opinion is that there need to be a number of changes to cynos to stop the proliferation of supa fleets being able to force project in less than a second.

they are:

-cyno spool up times on cap and super caps
-mass limits on cynos associated with hull size of cyno ship
-larger landing zone... more ships through = possibility of not even landing on grid. (you overload cyno anchor and end up by the sun or even a gate)

and thats only 3 of the many thaughts i have to change/fix :/ cynos
-
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-04-21 12:13:30 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
A bigger group does attract more attention though. I just find it a bit crazy that the only real counter to a JF is a DD Titan Squad. Cost-wise, that's equivalent to something like needing to jump 3-4 supercarriers in order to kill a single marauder.

Shocked

have you ever seen killboard? There is plenty of JFs dead without any titans around

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#59 - 2012-04-21 14:49:52 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Mara Villoso wrote:

describing current cyno mechanics
make your case without resorting to "EVE is too easy."


simple: "uninteresting".

won't work. so simple and regular task as travelling doesn't need to be 'interesting'. It needs to be fast and easy. Elsewere why travel at all?


I Agree 50%. Travel needs to be fast, just not as easy (safe) as it currently is. The jump freighter's role is to make logistics faster at the cost of m3 capacity. With current mechanics it also has the side effect of requiring no escort at all, unlike the regular freighters.

If you increase the risks, rewards should also follow. Give jump freighters more m3... Make them harder to pin down... Give them the ability to cloak... reduce their cost... anything really. I simply think it's time to take a look at cynos and remove their automatic iWin button. Nobody wants ships with automatic iWin buttons unless all they care about is to only fly that ship.

Why not allow cynos within POS shields then? There is already a 15 km minimum distance for the reasons above. Stations should be no different, but at least rebalanced the affected ships so they are not automatic iLose buttons either.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#60 - 2012-04-21 14:58:21 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
A bigger group does attract more attention though. I just find it a bit crazy that the only real counter to a JF is a DD Titan Squad. Cost-wise, that's equivalent to something like needing to jump 3-4 supercarriers in order to kill a single marauder.

Shocked

have you ever seen killboard? There is plenty of JFs dead without any titans around


But how many of those are not due to wardecs or unlucky bounces? You can catch one at a cyno generator, but it usually requires a force capable to attack a large deathstar POS.