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How to manufacture Tech 1 items with profit

Author
Aubrey Addams
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-05-09 09:45:17 UTC
I used to check the supply / demand first, then produce the item, then put up the sell order for the item for around the highest price I found in the item's 1-3 month market history. Then I just wait for the supply to run out, and reach my sell orders. You need to have patience for this and sometimes your item will wait on market for 1-3 weeks before the supply sold out, but if its reach you, your stuff will sold high. Thats why I produce different kind of things, so I have constant income, because there is usually an item which reaches a supply drain and people can only buy it for high.

I also don't participate in 0.01 ISK wars on selling side. If I have 200 items to sell, and there are sell orders before me for 5, 10, 40 item / order for example, and demand is 500/day, I put my sell orders behind the low quantity, because they will filled, then I will be the next, and I can sell my stuff higher.

For buy, I put buy orders, than wait half-1 day, and usually they filled without having to compete. Also if I want to buy 300.000 of something and there are buy orders for less quantity, I put my buy orders below them, cause they usually will be filled, and after then mines are filled too, and I can buy cheap and not generate rising prices.

You can also generate price fall / destroy a market if you always put your sell orders for the cheapest price, because then others starting to compete you and price will start to roll lower and lower. That's not so bad if others put their orders just 0.01 ISK before, but there are always some ppl who don't have patience and put sell orders for foolishly low prices and destroys yours and others market.

Remember, these are not the best tactic if you need money fast and you play hardcore industrial, but if you just play 1-2 hour / day casual and don't want spreadsheet and counting, hauling, ordering all day. I could produce lots of items and sell them with lower profit, and maybe my final ISK balance would be higher, but I just don't like to produce and play the businessman all day along.
Harland Glasby
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-05-09 23:44:33 UTC
It's always the items you pass over or think to yourself, ".. no, those wouldn't sell.." They end up outperforming the items we spent hours researching Lol
Aluka 7th
#43 - 2012-05-14 08:20:17 UTC
Harland Glasby wrote:
It's always the items you pass over or think to yourself, ".. no, those wouldn't sell.." They end up outperforming the items we spent hours researching Lol


Tell me about it, Remote hull repair system of large and medium size was one of those items, but when I tested the waters with those they were awesome. Only later I figured why (for pos structure repping).
Zordon
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2012-05-19 00:00:35 UTC
Another option for the newer players would be to contact a corp diplo for an area away from the hub's(while staying in high-sec) and asking if there are any mod's that they find short in their area. And you could try and set-up a market tailored to the pirate/mission/mine(ers) in the area.

Since the people looking at this might be new, and are trying to setup shop or find their niche in EVE, this could give them a chance at finding that golden item in their region... Even if they don't know what they are looking for.

PS Good thread, and I hope to see more constructive notes posted.
Aluka 7th
#45 - 2012-05-22 14:32:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Aluka 7th
Zordon wrote:
Another option for the newer players would be to contact a corp diplo for an area away from the hub's(while staying in high-sec) and asking if there are any mod's that they find short in their area. And you could try and set-up a market tailored to the pirate/mission/mine(ers) in the area.

Since the people looking at this might be new, and are trying to setup shop or find their niche in EVE, this could give them a chance at finding that golden item in their region... Even if they don't know what they are looking for.

PS Good thread, and I hope to see more constructive notes posted.


Ah, you mean like for example contacting some factional warfare corporation/corporations and offer them to supply specific station in their region?
That is good idea, specially to create package deal like predefined module combo for i.e. hurricane or harbinger. Even if you don't manufacture all items, you can "resell" what you don't manufacture just to fill the package.
Nice one!
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-05-22 23:26:26 UTC
Nice guide, going to bookmark this and come back to it someday :).

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Aluka 7th
#47 - 2012-05-24 07:42:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Aluka 7th
TigerXtrm wrote:
Nice guide, going to bookmark this and come back to it someday :).


Thank you :)
It is a game where mostly all is made by players so with more manufacturing bigger universe and player base can be supported.
Also this kind of money making frees a lot of time for "fun" stuff as it requires little active effort once you set up.
Aluka 7th
#48 - 2012-05-25 09:35:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Aluka 7th
Let me put one problem on debate. I'm not sure am I doing something wrong or looking at it from wrong perspective.

I have this item that costs me 10k in materials and 3k in different fees, which totals to 13k cost.
One production line produces 170pcs/day.
I was selling it for ages at price ~73k.

Now couple of resellers came to station where I sell this item and they are pricing it up to 123-133k ISK but they are buying all my stock for 73k in like hour after I put it on market.
Normal market sale volume for this item is 40-50pcs/day.
Now this guys (2-3 of them from what I can tell) are sending me mail that I'm stupid, how they ripping me off and they are earning easy money from my work.

But here are the numbers (I'm using numbers max in favor of the resellers):
This resellers buy my stock every day so I am earning 170*(73-13)=10.2milion every day.
They sell 50pcs/day to general public for 133k thus earning themselves 50*(133-73)=3milion every day and they are piling my rigs.

Am I missing something and what should I do?
If I raise my price near theirs, I would earn 50*(133-13)=6mil/day. but that is also iffy as they are undercutting each other for 0.01 all day long.
If i double production amount, there is higher risk of them giving up.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#49 - 2012-05-25 09:55:41 UTC
General rule of thumb: If someone is able to relist your goods at a higher price, and they sell at that price, then you were pricing things too cheap. Charge all that the market will bear .

The caveats:
- They may be trying to sucker you in some fashion.
- If the margins get too good, other manufs will jump in, or people start shipping in product from other hubs.

Personally, I love speculators and relisters as they help reset prices to a higher peg point for a week or two until the undercutting drives prices back down. In the meantime, I just ship a larger percentage of my recently produced goods into that market to take advantage of the better margins over the other markets that I supply.
Aluka 7th
#50 - 2012-05-30 14:00:41 UTC
Was away from EVE last couple of days.

Well actually 73k is kind of sweet spot.
Sale volume doesn't rise by a lot bellow that number and price is low enough to discourage competition because of the reason you mentioned in your second caveat.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-05-31 14:40:22 UTC
Morgan Dinn wrote:
... and have them on ME10 a minimum.

Comments like this..

It'd be far more useful to research what ME level is appropriate for the BPO you are interested in than just plumping for ME10 and hoping for the best. (go here to find out http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpo )

Conversely, PE10 seems to be a great 'one size fits all' for pretty much every BPO i can think of

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Mike Pegg
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-06-02 11:10:04 UTC
Id be tempted to disagree with the sell in jita thing a little, for small manufacturers its often more profitable sticking a buy order in some outskirts systems (2-5 jumps, in 0.5+ space which covers some popular missions areas) for minerals. Alot of people simply melt stuff they find down and sell the minerals so this can be a very cheap way of finding them.

Once your out there producing specific ammo is nearly always 1) an easy sell and 2) a profit. Its not a massive profit but its quite nice non the less. EG, kinetic missiles will always sell in caldari space and the BPs are cheap for em
Aluka 7th
#53 - 2012-06-03 12:06:01 UTC
Mike Pegg wrote:
Id be tempted to disagree with the sell in jita thing a little, for small manufacturers its often more profitable sticking a buy order in some outskirts systems (2-5 jumps, in 0.5+ space which covers some popular missions areas) for minerals. Alot of people simply melt stuff they find down and sell the minerals so this can be a very cheap way of finding them.

Once your out there producing specific ammo is nearly always 1) an easy sell and 2) a profit. Its not a massive profit but its quite nice non the less. EG, kinetic missiles will always sell in caldari space and the BPs are cheap for em


Actually you are right, Jita is supersaturated and small manufacturer can get better profit in mission hubs but if you want to sell volume then hubs like Hek, Dodixie, Amarr, Rens are place to be.
Aluka 7th
#54 - 2012-06-09 09:36:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Aluka 7th
Additional profitable "big" stuff - POS/Sov. structures (these I've checked in Amarr space):
8. Sovereignty Blockade Unit
9. Advanced Large Ship Assembly Array
10. Advanced Medium Ship Assembly Array
11. Advanced Small Ship Assembly Array
12. Equipment Assembly Array
13. Large Ship Assembly Array
14. Medium Ship Assembly Array
15. Small Ship Assembly Array
16. Subsystem Assembly Array
17. Heat Dissipation Array
Servitor 001
RedBallExpress
#55 - 2012-06-10 07:23:39 UTC
Pinstar Colton wrote:
Has anyone had any luck selling items in sets?
Such as manufacturing a T1 ship along with all the weapons/modules/drones/ammo that would make up a popular fit for it, then selling the whole thing via Contract?



Spin that a little bit......

Look into mineral compression via modules, their are some modules that when built take up less m3 than the minerals needed to build them. Someone with the right standings and skills can reprocess those mosules and get almost or all the minerals back.

Combine a ship BPC with enough of those modules to provide the minerals to build out the BPC and sell that lot as a package.

There is quite a demand for these pakages in some areas......
Aluka 7th
#56 - 2012-07-05 14:48:48 UTC
Bump for new readers..
Adhar Khorin
Projected Effects Industries
#57 - 2012-07-06 17:06:45 UTC
Thanks for taking the time to post the guide, and the helpful discussion that has followed. One thread that seems to be running below the surface of the discussion is what drives profitability.

The ongoing debate over whether Production Efficiency V is 'required' is a good example. PE reduces waste, which trims the bottom line and thus improves profit. However, it is possible to conduct a profitable sale with a low PE, it just means you take a lower profit, and are priced out of some compressed-margin markets.

Profit is an equation with a variety of factors, many of which can be influenced by training skills. Some factors rely on player knowledge, such as which markets and products represent good opportunities. Master industrialists are, by definition, master of both the character skills AND the player skills - or at least, more of them than the competition.

Looked at from a competitive differentiation perspective, character skills are commodities - anyone can acquire them given time. Player skills are another proposition entirely, requiring time, study, experience, and threads like this to develop.
Aluka 7th
#58 - 2012-07-15 18:34:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Aluka 7th
Adhar Khorin wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to post the guide, and the helpful discussion that has followed. One thread that seems to be running below the surface of the discussion is what drives profitability.

The ongoing debate over whether Production Efficiency V is 'required' is a good example. PE reduces waste, which trims the bottom line and thus improves profit. However, it is possible to conduct a profitable sale with a low PE, it just means you take a lower profit, and are priced out of some compressed-margin markets.

Profit is an equation with a variety of factors, many of which can be influenced by training skills. Some factors rely on player knowledge, such as which markets and products represent good opportunities. Master industrialists are, by definition, master of both the character skills AND the player skills - or at least, more of them than the competition.

Looked at from a competitive differentiation perspective, character skills are commodities - anyone can acquire them given time. Player skills are another proposition entirely, requiring time, study, experience, and threads like this to develop.


You are right on all points :)
Skills like production eff. just generate better profit but if your margin is so low that lvl 5 is mandatory then you have probably chose the wrong item to make profit on. I chose to produce thingies that are profitable even with prod. eff. 0, although I do have the skill at 5. Secret is in rl skills, homework etc. like you said.
Ginger Barbarella
#59 - 2012-07-16 00:19:25 UTC
Beliandra wrote:
Skippermonkey wrote:
meh, i wouldnt recommend anyone tries to sell on the market without Production Efficiency 5

You'll end up selling your items for less than it cost you to build it

If you're a complete beginner and want to get a feel for manufacturing to see if it is fun or not, you can make a profit with Production Efficiency 0 if you avoid the hubs and do business out in the sticks. There's really no need for a beginner to spend a couple of weeks training Production Efficiency 5 only to discover that they don't actually find a manufacturing career enjoyable.


This right here is PRECISELY why those in industry need to KNOW THEIR MARKETS. Getting all associated skills to elitist levels (as a couple in this thread suggest) is really only necessary if you're building and selling competitively in hard markets like Rens or Jita. The simple fact is that a lot of still sells for better prices outside those major trade hubs. I'm still baffled why most people don't get it.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Reaper gI
Me Wanna Machariel
#60 - 2012-07-16 12:59:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaper gI
Ginger Barbarella wrote:

This right here is PRECISELY why those in industry need to KNOW THEIR MARKETS. Getting all associated skills to elitist levels (as a couple in this thread suggest) is really only necessary if you're building and selling competitively in hard markets like Rens or Jita. The simple fact is that a lot of still sells for better prices outside those major trade hubs. I'm still baffled why most people don't get it.

They may sell for better prices, but you need high volume as well.
Why sell 10 mods per day at a 1mil profit each in a lvl 4 agent station when I could sell 60 at 200k profit each in a hub and not need to do the extra hauling.

You can only sell in the smaller markets effectively with high trade skills (you need to place more orders+ be able to modify them at range) as you need to spread where your orders are as well as deal with the logistics of having your wares spread across more stations to cope with the lower volumes.

As a missioner I'd by single mods (e.g. I'd just lost a drone or two due to disconnect) in station if I needed it, but I'd buy ships+ full fittings at the hub, as the savings and guaranteed stock are a huge convenience.