These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Issues, Workarounds & Localization

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Faction Warfare timer bug and occupancy warfare

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2012-05-12 02:01:52 UTC
Damar never ceases to amuse me.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2012-05-15 12:07:30 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Well, you get warning only because you are part of Caldari militia and preventing CCP plans to make gallente to win.

I recommend that everyone quits militia right now because normal game play may cause you to get bans.

CCP has finally gone too far.

This must be related to their new goal to make WoW in space.


It doesn't count as trolling when you're doing the crying.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#103 - 2012-05-18 12:11:40 UTC
Tiffy Mezzier wrote:
Yeah, ignoring the politics, the larger issue is that this is a bug that disrupts normal gameplay.

We need to collectively focus on this fact rather than finger pointing. If we ensure that CCP makes the effort to fix the issue, then the discussion regarding its exploitation will be rendered irrelevant.



Have they fixed this bug yet? Or are we charging into big consequences knowing that people already gained and defended allot of territory from an exploit?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Val Erian
Azure Horizon Federate Militia
#104 - 2012-05-25 20:32:47 UTC
As of Inferno release this bug HAS NOT BEEN FIXED.


Currently causing disruption in FW Gameplay as it has for couple of years.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#105 - 2012-05-29 15:05:59 UTC
Hey folks, we've been reviewing FW deployment with the CSM, who pointed this thread as one of the long, bitter issues that need to be looked into.

We had this issue investigated a few weeks back before Inferno deployment and we believed we fixed it back then. Obviously it's not, we'll have another look into it.


Thanks for the update!
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#106 - 2012-05-29 16:10:16 UTC
btw i filed a bug yesterday right after i soloed a major plex in a hostile system without getting any LP (or any kind of mail notification). After asking in local some said (enemy militia) that they have the exact same issue from time to time. The system occupacy bar flashed after i finished the plex so it got recognised in a form or the other.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#107 - 2012-06-03 06:10:25 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Hey folks, we've been reviewing FW deployment with the CSM, who pointed this thread as one of the long, bitter issues that need to be looked into.

We had this issue investigated a few weeks back before Inferno deployment and we believed we fixed it back then. Obviously it's not, we'll have another look into it.


Thanks for the update!


Still not fixed, but it appears praznimrak is starting to use it intentionally in oicx. I may have to create my first gallente alt in a couple years if its going to be a race of who exploits the most until CCP either starts issuing bans or fixes said bugs :)
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#108 - 2012-06-03 14:41:39 UTC
also: the system progress bar randomly disapears. I am sure it has been said already a few times.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#109 - 2012-06-18 17:58:06 UTC
Super Chair wrote:
Quote:
Bug that causes outposts to not respawn:
Say militia A is running the timer in the plex. Militia B shows up and forces Militia A out of the plex and begin running the timer. Militia A comes back and forces Militia B out and runs the timer until the timer goes to what is normally "captured" on the timer progress bar that you see in space. However, the timer "bugs" and the capture message does not appear in local (even though the progress bar, or timer on the button shows captured). Militia A now has two options, they can spend the extra time and continue to sit on the timer until the capture message shows up in local, or they can choose (or be forced) to leave to plex before the capture message (in local) appears. If the second scenario happens, and Militia A leaves the plex before the message in local appears, the plex will despawn just like any other "captured" plex and close. However, it will not respawn. So, outposts can be removed from circulation thus making a system "unattackable" intentionally. Also keep in mind that this can be caused unintentionally (such as two militias fighting over the the plex, and whoever wins the plex doesn't know any better and warps off when the timer reads captured, but no green message in local to say that the plex was actually captured, or that militia knows of the bug, tries to sit on the timer for an extra amount of time, but is forced to leave the plex because of a blob coming for them).

Again to recap the conditions that must be met:
1) Members of opposing militias must each control the timer at some point
2) The militia that controls the timer originally must be the militia to capture the plex for the bug to occur. (So in an A->B->A->Captured format) If Militia A controls the timer and then Militia B comes and and kicks Militia A out and captures it (A->B->Captured) the bug will not occur (at least that is what I have witnessed).
3) Militia A must vacate the plex so it will despawn sometime between the progress bar showing "captured" and the local message showing up in local.


Am I correct in the details of the bug? I haven't seen it happen unless control of the timer changes hands at least twice.


Also, what is GM stance on the bug happening unintentionally? Because the bug does occur when militias just happen to be fighting over the plex, and the above conditions are met, the bug will occur. Will the GM department attempt to make the distinguishment between the bug simply occuring during "normal" gameplay and intentionally attempting to trigger the bug?

Hi all, I've been asked to take a look in to this issue.

Firstly, let me say that arguing about who has or hasn't used tactic X is not something I'm concerned with here. If you have issues about something being an exploit or not, or accusations of someone cheating, please keep it to yourself (or file a petition). My only concern with this is getting to the bottom of what is happening to these stuck plexes, and finding a solution. Apart from the quoted post and the OP, the noise in this thread is simply no help to me whatsoever in this regard. So from now on, please consider this a problem-solving thread, not a mud-slinging one. I'll start asking the moderators to take action if this doesn't improve. I don't care what side of FW you represent, I just want to let you all get on with blowing stuff up in a reliable manner, so let's drop the "CCP prefers side Y over Z" stuff, OK?

So, with that out of the way...
When I first read the post above, it seemed that a reliable reproduction case would be straightforward to develop. However I've been testing this for a while, and have been unable to make it happen at all on my test server. I must be missing something, if it is as reliable as some suggest.

Here's what I'm doing:
* Characters A and B in opposing NPC militias, in B's space (so A is attacker, B is defender)
* A warps in to a minor outpost and approaches the beacon. The countdown starts
* After one minutes, B warps in and approaches the beacon. Beacon becomes contested (at around 9mins)
* A warps out. Beacon now starts counting back for B (from 11mins)
* A warps back in to the plex. Beacon becomes contested again.
* B warps out. Beacon starts counting back for A again.
* Once the timer expires, the beacon becomes captured, and the "Site has been captured" message immediately appears in local for A
* A warps out
* Around 30 minutes later, a new instance of the plex reappears on scan, as normal.

As you can see, I'm failing to get a repro, following what appears to be the steps mentioned by Super Chair. So, what am I missing?

Like I said above, please keep your replies constructive. If you're not posting something that might be useful to me for fixing this, then don't post it.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
Ponder Yonder
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#110 - 2012-06-20 13:04:25 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:


Hi all, I've been asked to take a look in to this issue.

Firstly, let me say that arguing about who has or hasn't used tactic X is not something I'm concerned with here. If you have issues about something being an exploit or not, or accusations of someone cheating, please keep it to yourself (or file a petition). My only concern with this is getting to the bottom of what is happening to these stuck plexes, and finding a solution. Apart from the quoted post and the OP, the noise in this thread is simply no help to me whatsoever in this regard. So from now on, please consider this a problem-solving thread, not a mud-slinging one. I'll start asking the moderators to take action if this doesn't improve. I don't care what side of FW you represent, I just want to let you all get on with blowing stuff up in a reliable manner, so let's drop the "CCP prefers side Y over Z" stuff, OK?

So, with that out of the way...
When I first read the post above, it seemed that a reliable reproduction case would be straightforward to develop. However I've been testing this for a while, and have been unable to make it happen at all on my test server. I must be missing something, if it is as reliable as some suggest.

Here's what I'm doing:
* Characters A and B in opposing NPC militias, in B's space (so A is attacker, B is defender)
* A warps in to a minor outpost and approaches the beacon. The countdown starts
* After one minutes, B warps in and approaches the beacon. Beacon becomes contested (at around 9mins)
* A warps out. Beacon now starts counting back for B (from 11mins)
* A warps back in to the plex. Beacon becomes contested again.
* B warps out. Beacon starts counting back for A again.
* Once the timer expires, the beacon becomes captured, and the "Site has been captured" message immediately appears in local for A
* A warps out
* Around 30 minutes later, a new instance of the plex reappears on scan, as normal.

As you can see, I'm failing to get a repro, following what appears to be the steps mentioned by Super Chair. So, what am I missing?

Like I said above, please keep your replies constructive. If you're not posting something that might be useful to me for fixing this, then don't post it.


@CCP Masterplan

Your recipe is basically correct, but a critical detail is clearly missing. I suspect that B needs to leave the plex after chasing A out. Some time later, after A sees that B is not in local anymore, he returns to the plex.

A recent example: A runs the counter down to 5 mins. B enters the plex, A warps off. A spawns another plex in the same system and caps it. A notices that B is not in local anymore and returns to the original plex, finding the timer increased. (Not sure whether it was more or less than the initial 10mins). A orbits the button until 0, but no completion message.

Would it help if we gave you examples of bugged plexes immediately after finding them in-game?
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#111 - 2012-06-20 13:32:53 UTC
Isn't combat part of this equation? It was my understanding that you not only had to warp in and out of the plex according to the pattern, but that shots had to be exchanged between opposing WT within range of the button for this bug to be triggered. (which is why this bug is reported to occur so frequently, the conditions for its reproduction are too similar to normal game play within the complex).

Thanks for the update CCP, keep us comprised as to your progress I'm sure there is plenty of folks here happy to assist with narrowing this down, unless its already been fixed and no one here has actually tested it themselves since the supposed fix.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#112 - 2012-06-20 13:50:19 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Masterplan
Great news everyone! I think I've found the critical missing piece of the jigsaw this morning. I'm now able to repro the problem on demand, which is 90% of the way to a solution.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law