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Tanking ships
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Suran Tarj
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#1 - 2012-04-18 08:15:12 UTC
Hello out there.

Im still new in this game, and I wonder: How do I tell, what ship is suited for active and passive tanking. What ship-parameteres tells me "This is suited for active tanking" or "this is a passive tanker"?
I can see fx Maelstrom got bonus to shield boosting, wich obviously tells me its a active tank - but what about the rest of the ships? How do I recon active from passive?

/Suran
Khalimus
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#2 - 2012-04-18 09:11:45 UTC
For armour ships I would say unless it has a rep bonus you should be looking at a HP fit (for PVP, obviously this doesnt work for PVE)

For shield ships it's not as clear cut. Probably better to say what ship you want to fly, and what you what to fly it for, and then people can help you more.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#3 - 2012-04-18 10:21:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Rel'k Bloodlor
some are ez like you point out, others you will need to fire up a fitting tool and see.
As a rule of thumb the larger the shield ship the ezer it is to active tank and the larger the armour ship the ezer it is to pasive.
Also gal/min are more prone to active tank bonuses and ama/cal are more likly to have a pasive one.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
#4 - 2012-04-18 11:01:44 UTC
Or look at the available slots. If you have like a wolf with its 5/2/5 you can see its hardly a shield tanker. (Only if you ignore prop and point). A Navy Scorpion with its 8 med slots is obviously great for shield tanking.
Marquise12
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-04-18 13:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Marquise12
I am assuming you're talking about Passive Shield tanking because all ships are capable and are somewhat suited for Buffer tank.

Only combined ships parameters can tell you is it or is it not capable of "being a good Passive Shield Tank" while fulfilling a desired purpose satisfactory (same thing goes for active tanking on ships that don't have bonus). The best, most comfortable and fastest way to figure out which are good and which are not is a fitting tool (unless you like to calculate it out :P).
Here's the one I use - EFT.

You'll eventually be able to roughly know is the ship good as PST while i.e. dealing damage by the slot layout powergrid and resists (as the primary things that affect the possibility of PST IMO) but nothing obvious as "bonus to armor/shield repair/boost". Also, don't let bonuses keep you in dark - you don't have to use them for your ship to be effective in some environments. I'll leave the surprise of looking at Passive Shield Tanked Myrmidon stats to you ^^.

I strongly recommend reading the tanking section from ISK, if you still didn't as it will give you much better idea of what's necessary for which tank.

Enjoy, welcome to EVE.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#6 - 2012-04-18 14:23:40 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
The Rattlers is the best passive tank. With a good fit it will have the most buffer and a passive recharge rate that is better than most active tanks active recharge rate.

Of course with that kindof fit you will have no web or scram. Your DPS will suck. And you'll be slow...

To see what each tank can do, I suggest either Eve Fitting Tool, or getting on the Test server to try out some fits and look at the fitting screen's active and passive defense stats (its a drop down box to show each one) to test out the options.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2012-04-18 15:37:01 UTC
Marquise12 wrote:
Only combined ships parameters can tell you is it or is it not capable of "being a good Passive Shield Tank" while fulfilling a desired purpose


Yes, but in general you're looking for three things to make a good passive shield tank:

1) Relatively large shield buffer with the ability to expand it further
2) Relatively good shield resists with the ability to expand those further
3) Relatively short shield recharge time with the ability to shorten it further

1 is granted by mid slots and inherent ship qualities (such as the fact that navy issue ships have 50% higher buffer). 2 is granted for the most part by ship bonuses (Caldari/Gurista shield resist bonuses and T2/T3 inherent resists). 3 comes from ship class (BCs have relatively short recharge, BSs are usually relatively long), rigs (which are competitive with any other rigs you might want to fit), and low slots (which are competitive with speed and damage mods).

You also will want to consider ships with a strong inherent cap if you want to run any active modules (as shield recharges murder cap).

All in all, you're left with a list that looks something like this (for PvE; passive shield tanks aren't PvP setups anyhow):

Rattlesnake (drawback: can't fit two sentry damage rigs)
Gila (ditto)
Ishtar (ditto, plus only really good against kin/therm)
Navy Scorpion (sacrificing damage)
Drake (sacrificing damage and mobility)
Nighthawk (only really shines against kin/therm, but decent against others; sacrifices damage)
Vulture (if you don't know the issues here, don't fly one)
Tengu (but you really shouldn't)
Myrmidon (lacks resistance but can get great recharge)
Hurricane (slightly weak but it works; sacrifices damage and mobility)
Arbitrator (ever see that slot layout? yeah, it works.)

I may have missed one or two, but there's your general list.
Suran Tarj
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#8 - 2012-04-18 23:06:19 UTC
thanks for all the answers - i'll go for a Navy Scorpion, and try see if I can keep it in one piece with passive tank, otherwise ill try active.
Again Thanks
Mark Androcius
#9 - 2012-04-19 09:46:01 UTC
Suran Tarj wrote:
thanks for all the answers - i'll go for a Navy Scorpion, and try see if I can keep it in one piece with passive tank, otherwise ill try active.
Again Thanks


Taking the fact that it's almost impossible to buy a navy scorpion aside ( on Singularity ), try making a copy of your EVE client and setting it up to run on Singularity.
I've said it before in another post, but all ships and modules on that server are 100 isk ( that's 100, not 100 million ).
Insure it and take it for a spin, you will always get more money back when it blows up, then what it cost to build and insure.
This allows you to try out different ships and fits, sorta helps you figure out what best fits your play style and skill setup, or what skills you need to hone/train.

https://androcius.wordpress.com
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#10 - 2012-04-19 10:44:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Crellion
Suran Tarj wrote:
Hello out there.

Im still new in this game, and I wonder: How do I tell, what ship is suited for active and passive tanking. What ship-parameteres tells me "This is suited for active tanking" or "this is a passive tanker"?
I can see fx Maelstrom got bonus to shield boosting, wich obviously tells me its a active tank - but what about the rest of the ships? How do I recon active from passive?

/Suran


1. Look at whether a vessel has a bonus to tanking (this will be either or)... though this is not set in stone either. Specifically the usual passive tanking bonus (resists amount) is always equally useful for active tanking but the usual active tanking bonus does nothing for you passive tank.

2. Look at the proposed uses of the vessel. If it's cap is too weak (in combnation with the weapon system and utility highslot usage such as the neutraliser) then passive might be a better option

3. In pvp smaller vessels as a rule of thumb are better fitted passive because theu can hardly power the weapons and tackling and propulsion mods and they are prone to face oversized neuts. Conversely larger vessels have a lot more cap and oversized injectors and dont have to look out for capital neutralisers (dunno why ask CCP)

4. In pvp solo vessels active tank if doing low dps (or else they are deadmeat) and switch to passive tanks better when they do a lot of dps keeping fights sweet and sort

5. In pvp Vessels relying to RR are usually passive resist tanked (with a minimum of buffer to allow the cavalry to arrive) whereas solo passive tankers simply go for highest ehp which often is buffer other than resists

6. In pve all armor tankers are active. Shield can work either way

7. Heavily neut infested pve environments force solo vessels to passive tank. Neut infested pvp environments are more friendly to active tanks due to the (usually) shorter fight duration and the cargohold 800 cap booster charge capacities

8. Slot layout helps as suggested before... but in mysterious ways. For example a vessel with many lowslots and 2-3 mid slots is likely to armor passive tank whereas a vessel with many lowslots and 4 mids, if armor tanking, will be equally likely to active tank as passive tank. This is because of the holly small gang/solo pvp number 4. In midslots it signifies proulsion mod, web, scram, injector

9. Real men and Gallente boss frigates hull tank which is alwaysTM passive (or the capsuleer is lunatic) and good for you som

10. I could go on all day but I ll give it a rest here. If you are really good at reading between the lines you will have seen there is a noticeable preference to passive tanks on all vessels in pvp and active tanks in all armor and most shield vessels in pve. The exception is usually those vessels with active tank bonuses not because they are actually better in active tank configurations (for pvp) but rather because one feels that if not using them liek that one should be flying a different vessel..

tl;dr situational. all vessels can do both passive and active. try passive first for pvp active first for pve.