EVE Fiction

Not really, The mega corporation was something that was introduced to the Caldari when the Gallente annexed their civilazation.

Well I don't know the lore so you'll have to cite authority, links for dates, but I believe that the corporations, their exploration and settlements, predate Caldari entry into the Gallente federation, and even the federation itself.

"By the time the Gallente Federation was founded two centuries ago the Caldari Corporations were already well established in Caldari society. Although not nearly as powerful as they are today, they were still preeminent in Caldari economic life."
THE EARLY DAYS (CHRONICLE)

I'll take this as stated opinion since you haven't cited your source. However, since every society has been feudal at some point the resemblance you allude to is, to my mind, indicative of a degenerated state.

"By the time the Gallente Federation was founded two centuries ago the Caldari Corporations were already well established in Caldari society. Although not nearly as powerful as they are today, they were still preeminent in Caldari economic life."
THE EARLY DAYS (CHRONICLE)

The word preeminent in the chronicle it is reasonable to read as meaning: as powerful as they might be within the constraints of democracy. The capitalisation of the word Corporations in the phrase Caldari Corporations is also significant, grammatically speaking it means those Caldari corporations known to us.

'Just', I don’t think so, but the meaning of words, what they are used to denote, is important, isn't it?

The term mega-corporation is descriptive of a massive conglomerate having usurped political power, usually belonging to the state, effectively dominating civil society. Ok then what other term would you use to describe an entity: building a private army, having its own secret currency scip, settling other worlds, and controlled by an unelected corporate oligarchy.

These mega corporations are nothing new of course the pattern was there at the beginning of the new eden story. I'm interested to know which of the first colonists seeded the different Empires, the Amarr is easily traced and I think the Tau Ceti are the ancestors of the Gallente but I'm not sure. It's an irrelevance of course, I don't think you can understand social phenomena by the examination of some 'essential' racial trait, in a reductive manner. I believe you have to look at the whole picture, the complex of social relationships. However I think this is a continuation of an impossible dream ...one in which capital dreams of being free AD 7993 “The third planet in the VH-451 system is bought by a mega-corporation. Small-scale colonization starts soon after.

You suggest that the Caldari saw in Gallente hyper capitalism a model of mega-corporations they recognised and adopted. I’m saying I don’t think so … but persuade me/us if you think so.

... here’s a quote from prime fiction: "The Caldari have ways that go back just as far as ours and are usually a damn sight more honorable” Taught_Thoughts_(Chronicle) So more honourable than the Gallente in that history teacher's opinion, I'm inclined to agree with that.

Thats what it means now, but Foxconn isn't classed as a Mega-Corporation in RL and it has its own city. What I'm gonna say IS opinion, but it is logical and seems to be the case. As a corporation in Eve you obviously have to be way larger than any corporations we would see on IRL, so no doubt even the small but intergalactic corporations have such influence (just by ownership of land and access to money streams) that on a planetary level they would have political power.

For the Caldari to succesfully rebel from the Gallente without being completely obliterated by the civil war that would ensue, they would have to be at least large enough to have a political influence over many planets, in fact, they would have to have supporters on a political front as well to be able to gain control of systems without having to display a stupid amount of force (laying every system under siege).

The fact that they are so culturally different proves thay had a seperate political adgenda too. Beliefs in rank and file, duty to state and suppression of individualism in society fly in the face of Gallente ideals and would have been at the very least seen the way the democracies sees communism and the ignorant see the big bang today. (Something that is so radically different and has no good examples that many vilify it before trying to actually appreciate it.)

The attack in question was because Gallenteans were in fact blocking off the Caldarians. Their people suffered, and The Federation denied all talks.

Gallente is the very definition of the USA.

thing is it is hard to really imagine the EVE mega-corps in our terms. closest thing to a Caldari Mega-Corp in reality would be someone like Samsung... Samsung makes everything from consumer goods to container ships, they where also a chief contractor on the Burj Dubai tower(current tallest man made structure in the world.). They are also a big defense contractor for South Korea and I think they own a city



I think that is the closest relation we have to the fictional corps of EVE, I bet they would have space battleships if we where a few centuries more advanced.(it would be scary to see Samsung and Apple disputing their patents with Torps instead of lawyers)



However thinking in real world terms... considering SCOTUS has now allowed corporations to be people too we are well on our way here on this side of the pond to building that Caldari style... See you all on Sol 3 Moon 1 Google Defense Force...

Most likely? No, I don't think that you've yet shown that.

I disagree with this on the grounds that it does injury to the accepted usage of the term 'mega-corporation'. It beggers credulity but mightn't it be argued with equal force that the fossilized cultural remnant of the mega-corporation that first bought Luminaire was in fact the original Caldari model. If so then perhaps it was the Caldari inheritors that influenced the Gallente. I wouldn't argue this myself because I have to believe that some political development 'must' have occurred over that time surely? However, in the fictional backstory to eve you only have to look at the Amarr to find an example of a minority who've managed to retain power over eons. But let's open with your own excellent document.


We can at least start by agreeing that when this was written you thought that Isuuaya was founded regardless of the influence of the CDS. I fail to see why the 'ambiguous' question would arise since the document clearly says that Caldari enterprise had established colonies in secret before any cultural imperialism. After first contact perhaps, but before the CDS arrived. These colonies were in fact governed to compete with the Gallente for the conquest of space, without a democratic mandate by branches of the 'government'*, or private corporations, whichever they will later be formally identified as the Caldari corporations.

*The inconsequential nature of this distinction is explored in detail in the theory of state capitalism.



While the term mega-corporation presupposes a certain absence of conventional democratic institutions these corporations were able to operate in secret, as I've said, as states within states (as having usurped the normal function of the state). They were de facto mega-corporations whatever sham may have been in effect vis-à-vis representative democracy.

You say there "must have been a democratic state' - I'm interested to know the strength of that 'must' of yours. Whether it's simply rhetoric or if you have some lore to support the contention.

The armies being amassed in the colonies allowed the cabal (I conjecture that there must have been a group, a cabal, that had prepared for this inside and outside of government) to secure the star gates even as the Gallentee where also attempting to do the same - this is what led to the blockade, it was not a punitive measure. The State took the stand they did, namely, implemented their illegal coup which disfranchised the whole Caldari population because of Gallente interference. In the very concrete sense the State is a dictatorship, they had been planning a military coup hadn't they? The terrorist attack against the dome was no doubt designed to provoke agression giving them the political conditions they needed to take power from the Caldari people; in this they were entirely successful.

Why not, surely everyone is proud of their cultural heritage - pride is what cultural heritages are for. I was reading through Svetlana Scarlet's The Caldari Dialogues. Much of the anthropological stuff is a little unconvincing (lots of it giving a Bushido flavor for the Japanophilie) but there's stuff there that supports my position, in particular this:

'The corporations were concerned that the Federation would strip the colonies from them, which would essentially nationalize billions of ISK in investment by the corporations ... the fundamental reason behind the Caldari war of independence was preservation of corporate assets, not nationalistic fervor.'
The Caldari Dialogues

I increasingly believe that there was very likely no democracy in Caldari society before the Gallente imposed it: I can't in all honesty think what Cultural Deliverance Society was there to do if not ideologically strong arm the Caldari into democracy. (unless it was to get the girls into mini skirts and the boys into hot pants )

"Cultural Deliverance Society … some sort of paternalistic "help the poor Caldari get all civilized society doesn't seem that far fetched."
The Caldari Dialogues

Right'o, my point was that the CEP is decidedly not about the free market but about making profits.


You can argue this in the particular but the converse is true in general… but you’re right there is an implication here that competition is not good for profits, the same can be said for innovation.

Anyway this thread is about Caldari honour and so not to entirely lose the theme I should clarify why I’ve brought up these oblique points. There’s no design but I'm beginning to see how these different issues might be drawn together.

There is a sense in which the idea of honour is understood to support morality, a morality that rests somewhere. I understand that in Caldari society, since ‘secession’ and in some abstract familial sense beforehand, is regulated by contract. This has some bearing on my treatment of the ‘Caldari Secession’ as substantively different from what is normally understood by the term, in other words not as an act of individual liberation from the hegemonic bonds of the state.