EVE Fiction

I'll address your concern about name-calling by simply saying EVE-O trolling is contagious. I caught the bug, and coughed on someone else. Besides, his statement was ridiculous, which brings me to your second point.

The sabotaging of the dome at Nouvelle Rouvenor was committed by the Templis Dragonaurs (unsure of spelling), a known anti-Gallente (by an extremely racist definition of the term) terrorist group. This group is outlawed at the highest level by the Caldari State.

Excluding underhanded dealings by corrupt officials (which would be pure speculation anyways, since there is no PF mention of it), the State did not sponsor that attack. In fact, the State did not even exist at that point in time. This can be taken into all sorts of conjecture and speculation, but it's quite clearly stated in PF that the attack on the underwater city of Nouvelle Rouvenor was comitted by terrorists who were and are to this day outlaws.

Tovil-Toba is a different fish altogether. What he did is in fact an example of the highest displays of honor ever seen in Caldari history. Ever. To the Caldari people, Tovil-Toba is a national hero. If you disagree with this viewpoint, I'm afraid nothing I can say will convince you they are honorable, because you are either unwilling or incapable of understanding their culture.

His justification for ordering his carrier into the atmosphere of Gallente Prime was a rather obvious 'kamikaze' example. While I hate to compare EVE to the real world, in this case it's pretty cut and dry. Tovil-Toba steered his failing warship into the most militarily and economically sensitive target of the entire Federation - the homeworld. It should be noted that you can't exactly aim something as big as a Chimera at a specific city. It broke up in the upper atmosphere and was then subject to dynamic forces which spread the wreckage across half the continent. It just so happened that one of the larger pieces airburst over the city, wiping out a major population center. Was this intentional? It might have been hoped that his sacrifice would have some major impact, but I would doubt his intention was to wipe out millions of innocent civilians. Even if it was, I suppose it could be considered a case of eye-for-an-eye, or revenge killing for the wanton orbital bombardment of Caldari Prime. Again, this would likely fit in with the Caldari mindset.

Whether you see Tovil-Toba's sacrifice as honorable or not is up to you, but the Caldari people by an overwhelming majority consider him their national hero. If you consider him otherwise, then I'm afraid you're simply subject to an ethnocentric opinion.

Also, for the record, my posting on this forum is not In Character. I am always Out Of Character in EVE Fiction forums.

EDIT: Oh, and I enjoyed reading your interview story. Have you posted any others lately?

I always found this amusing, given that Tibus Heth is (or at least, was at one point) a member of the Templis Dragonaurs, according to some parts of the Empyrean Age novel. His affiliation was never proved publicly lore-wise though. :(

(I'll look for the excerpt when I get home - if I can find my copy of the novel, that is. It's probably buried under other books in a box that hasn't been opened since I graduated last spring. xD)

I agree, we see a lot of scandal in backgrounds of many key figures, Roden's Serpentis connection is another.

These kind of details could easily be introduce into IC lore by ISD through investigative journalist's "press releases". A sort of official ISD version of Muck Raker. Scandalous news stories and allegations with little hard evidence but that characters can choose to believe as true or just regard as scurrilous slurs.

e.g.

Dichard Rawkins alleges Jamyl is a posses by demons.
Dragonaurs : The Terrorists that Hijacked the State.
The Past Presidents Club : An exposure of Presidential corruption.

According to PF, everything in Caldari society is about the corporation. Corporations are big on contracts: you sign the papers and you are legally bound to honor the terms. Break a contract, and you could get fired (which means that you're essentially unemployable, and you're probably going to starve to death).

Given the above consequinces, it's pretty clear that a Caldari will not give his word (ie, sign a verbal contract) unless he is absolutely certain he can hold up his end of the deal. It also means that once a Caldari gives his word, it'll be a cold day in hell before you can convince him to break it.

So, noble? Perhaps not so much in the world of cutthroat corporate competition. But honorable? Heck, yeah.

The past does have an effect on judgements for the present and future, but I would wonder if Tibus Heth's move to seize Caldari Prime and hold it doesn't serve a secondary purpose of keeping the Gallente attentive and close to the Caldari in case of problems with Amarr. One never knows when the next Reclaiming might be, and it may be that the Minmatar nation forms a much less desirable target now that there are ... alternatives.

IMO

The ideal of Caldari honor is reflected in the sentiment of, State before Self.

Tif

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

It's quite simple really. There is a universal acceptable way to judge honor. Were the Romans honorable? Yes - why? Because whatever happened; whatever classes fought against each other politically in Forum Romanum, they were Romans; from the head count to the aristocrats; from the greedy to the poor - they were Romans.

Was Sparta honorable? Some would say that it was. Worshiping Sparta even has a Latin name, if I recall it correct, and lives yet today being born in democratic Athens. On one hand, Sparta discarded tiny-winy, imsy-wimsy babies that were puny, weak, or in another way undesirable for the Spartan way of life, but on the other hand, Sparta was the greatest military nation this world saw before modern warfare became a way of life. In Sparta the social classes were extreme enough to cut close to the Romans (but not too close). Albeit that Spartan men were equal to one another, from senator and king to the lowest soldier, they had different kind of citizens whom were not of Spartan decent. A group of these were routinely harassed and once or twice every century they were mass murdered, lest the Spartans risked being outnumbered by these under-bred slaves. So, were Spartans honorable? What do you think a Spartan would do if he stood with 299 men between 300'000 Persians and Greece? He would fight. Why? Because he is a Spartan. It's what they did - anything else would've been dishonorable. Efial’tes is supposed to have lead the Persian troops behind Spartan lines. Was he honorable? Come on! He almost ended a slave-murdering, military-fascist society. He must've been honorable! No? Huh, I guess we must take a look at how our culture views honor.

The same principles work in Caldari society. To them, honor is Spartan discipline; it's patriotism; it's the good for the many; it's fighting for the independence they paid for with dearest blood. That is honor - why? Because they are the Caldari.

Honor is subjective. Different for person to person and cultures. Caldari are "a-political and a-moral". They're closer to what a pure logical vulcan society would look like.

no idea why, but i see them akin to the Imperial Guard in 40k....just saying