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Why EVE is not as popular, and why that is not a bad thing.

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Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#41 - 2012-04-18 08:45:18 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Alyssa Yotosala wrote:
EVE isnt as popular as other MMO's because only those who are hard enough to handle being greifed by sociopaths stay on long enough to fall in love with the game.

EVE is chock full of sociopaths. This is known.
Hell, even CCP has some working for them ( Goon members ).

Now some may argue that this is good for EVE, as weak minded people have been so harrassed by sociopathic behaviour that they have been effectively run out of town, leaving only a hardened minority behind.

But that still doesnt change the perception that EVE gets in the gaming world at large. And that is a well deserved perception, as it is based upon years of fact.

It seems to me that CCP does not want EVE to get too popular. Im not even sure that Tranquility can handle millions of active players without immense capital investment.

But at the end of the day, what makes EVE so horrible ( its sociopathic players ), is also what makes it so good. EVE is hard. If EVE was easy, and everybody got along holding hands and singing koom bai ya (sp), it would be as boring as hell. No risk means rewards have no value.

The disturbed people who play this game make it hard, and that is a good thing in the end, as I would much rather have a game overrun by sociopathic behaviour than overrun with the immature childish hate-spweing behaviour you see in other "sing-along" MMO's and multiplayer console games.

Keep EVE hard.


This all falls flat because you assume the people playing the game are the same as their characters in-game.


It's hard to doubt that sometimes when you are sitting in a chatroom listening to them. I won't get into specifics, but lets just say there isn't that much difference imo, and the fine line between character and character is actually only defined by what you can do in game and can't do out of game in many cases.

It would be nice to think everybody was roleplaying, but the reality is that many are not and they really aren't much different in real life. Of course that doesn't mean they would or do murder people because there is a big difference between that and shooting ships in a game. Still, in most cases a bully is a bully though.

Most of what is translates between game and real life is simply attitude and basic psychology. Actions in game are sort of like words in real life. Words in game are somewhere between that and personal thoughts that you might not actually say in real life.

Doesn't apply to everybody of course.
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Ersteen Hofs
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-04-18 08:59:20 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Ersteen Hofs wrote:
this argument is kind of old, and it does not work.
…by which I can only assume that you're referring to the sociopath argument, since it's not something that can be read from a game — especially one where gameplay dictates a different behaviour than real life. In fact…

what gameplay dictates to go and suicide gank newbie mining barges en masse? there is no profit in this other than pervert enjoyment of causing other people troubles. unless it's a bot barge of course.
Quote:
Quote:
the person who conducts sociopathic behavior in game obviously compensates for the lack of ability to conduct the same way in real life due to fear of law or the lack of social options or whatever else.
…that pretty much means they're not sociopaths since the defining characteristic of APD is that those RL inhibitions don't exist.

I never said otherwise.

all those formal definitions are only good for law, but if you want to know what the person really is, it's enough to know that he enjoys the same activities sociopaths enjoy (even though not in the same world) which means that they have something in common. that's enough for me.
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#43 - 2012-04-18 09:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Serge Bastana
Lapine Davion wrote:
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Quote:
Sociopathy

Hare writes that the difference between sociopathy and psychopathy may "reflect the user's views on the origins and determinates of the disorder." The term sociopathy may be preferred by sociologists that see the causes as due to social factors. The term psychopathy may be preferred by psychologists who see the causes as due to a combination of psychological, genetic, and environmental factors.

David T. Lykken proposed psychopathy and sociopathy are two distinct kinds of antisocial personality disorder. He believed psychopaths are born with temperamental differences such as impulsivity, cortical underarousal, and fearlessness that lead them to risk-seeking behavior and an inability to internalize social norms. On the other hand, he claimed that sociopaths have relatively normal temperaments; their personality disorder being more an effect of negative sociological factors like parental neglect, delinquent peers, poverty, and extremely low or extremely high intelligence. In other words, psychopathy leans towards the hereditary whereas sociopathy tends towards the environmental.


Quote:
A sociopath is a person who has antisocial personality disorder. The term sociopath is no longer used to describe this disorder. The sociopath is now described as someone with antisocial personality disorder.

The main characteristic of a sociopath is a disregard for the rights of others. Sociopaths are also unable to conform to what society defines as a normal personality. Antisocial tendencies are a big part of the sociopath’s personality. This pattern usually comes into evidence around the age of 15. If it is not treated, it can develop into adulthood.

Visible symptoms include physical aggression and the inability to hold down a steady job. The sociopath also finds it hard to sustain relationships and shows a lack of regret in his or her actions. A major personality behavior trait is the violation of the rights of others. This can appear as a disregard for the physical or sexual wellbeing of another.

Although these symptoms are all present, they may not always be evident. Research has shown that the sociopath is usually a person with an abundance of charm and wit. He or she may appear friendly and considerate, but these attributes are usually superficial. They are used as a way of blinding the other person to the personal agenda behind the sociopath’s behaviour.

Many people with antisocial personality disorder frequently indulge in alcohol or drug use. They may use these substances heavily as a way of heightening their antisocial personality. The sociopath sometimes sees the world on his or her own terms, as a place of high drama and risky thrills. The sociopath may suffer from low self esteem, and the use of alcohol and drugs is a way to diminish these feelings.

The causes of antisocial personality disorder are thought to be either genetic or environmental. Children who are influenced by antisocial parents may adopt these tendencies. Similarly, role models such as one's friends or peer group may also influence the behaviour pattern of a sociopath. Antisocial behaviour is more likely to occur in men than in women. About 1% of women have this disorder, while 3% of men are affected by it.

It is very rare for a person with antisocial personality disorder to seek help of their own accord. Treatment for antisocial personality disorder is usually through group psychotherapy. Sociopaths often find it helpful to talk through and recognize their problems with people they can trust. In a number of cases, this type of personality disorder tends to diminish from the age of 30 onwards.


If any of this sounds familiar, seek help

Quote:
The main characteristic of a sociopath is a disregard for the rights of others. Sociopaths are also unable to conform to what society defines as a normal personality. Antisocial tendencies are a big part of the sociopath’s personality. This pattern usually comes into evidence around the age of 15. If it is not treated, it can develop into adulthood.

Visible symptoms include physical aggression and the inability to hold down a steady job. The sociopath also finds it hard to sustain relationships and shows a lack of regret in his or her actions. A major personality behavior trait is the violation of the rights of others. This can appear as a disregard for the physical or sexual wellbeing of another.


Likely the bits we see

BECAUSE ITS A GODDAMNED GAME


I know that I can't wait to slaughter Jita residents while blasting Huey Lewis and the News.

It's hip to be square!


Such a great scene, definitely one of my favourite bits from the film.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Xanthia Grint
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-04-18 09:05:03 UTC
Alyssa Yotosala wrote:
EVE isnt as popular as other MMO's because only those who are hard enough to handle being greifed by sociopaths stay on long enough to fall in love with the game.

EVE is chock full of sociopaths. This is known.
Hell, even CCP has some working for them ( Goon members ).

Now some may argue that this is good for EVE, as weak minded people have been so harrassed by sociopathic behaviour that they have been effectively run out of town, leaving only a hardened minority behind.

But that still doesnt change the perception that EVE gets in the gaming world at large. And that is a well deserved perception, as it is based upon years of fact.

It seems to me that CCP does not want EVE to get too popular. Im not even sure that Tranquility can handle millions of active players without immense capital investment.

But at the end of the day, what makes EVE so horrible ( its sociopathic players ), is also what makes it so good. EVE is hard. If EVE was easy, and everybody got along holding hands and singing koom bai ya (sp), it would be as boring as hell. No risk means rewards have no value.

The disturbed people who play this game make it hard, and that is a good thing in the end, as I would much rather have a game overrun by sociopathic behaviour than overrun with the immature childish hate-spweing behaviour you see in other "sing-along" MMO's and multiplayer console games.

Keep EVE hard.


Fanboi Spotted

And i agree with none of the above, eve is small because the tutorials are pure **** and even friends of mine who have played harder games than this and have played countless MMO's could not understand it.

Where doe's it say u need tanks? How to fit your ships?

Doesnt

Your is just a fanboi post :)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#45 - 2012-04-18 09:26:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ersteen Hofs wrote:
what gameplay dictates to go and suicide gank newbie mining barges en masse?
Not dictates as in “forces”, but dictates as in “says that it's acceptable”. That's the entire issue with trying to use the term in a game: what is considered not conforming to normality when normality means beating your opponent to a pulp as early and as often as possible, or otherwise trying to gain any advantage possible? Trying to bankrupt your friends is very anti-social, but it's the norm in Monopoly.

Shooting people in the face is morally reprehensible; in CS, it's actively rewarded (as is knifing people in the neck). Making people drown in the pool is very very nasty; in The Sims, it's hilarious and will help you satisfy some of your sims' aspirations. Ethnic cleansing is pretty much the worst crime defined; in Civ, it's how you lord it over your room-mate who chose the bookish approach.

Quote:
all those formal definitions are only good for law, but if you want to know what the person really is, it's enough to know that he enjoys the same activities sociopaths enjoy (even though not in the same world) which means that they have something in common. that's enough for me.
But then you're not talking about APD any more, but about your personal preference in how others should interact with you, which are so far from being normative that it becomes unmeasurable and meaningless for everyone else. As a result, it is also not knowable, since the evaluation on what you think is “enough to know” becomes entirely subjective and open to interpretation and perceived context — again, see Monopoly, CounterStrike, The Sims, Civ.
ISD LoneLynx
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-04-18 09:47:27 UTC
Trolling, locked.

ISD LoneLynx Lieutenant Support Team and Resources [STAR] Interstellar Services Department
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