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Why isn't Eve more successful?
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#141 - 2012-04-17 17:54:29 UTC
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Normal, average gamers dont like nonconsentual PVP (most ppl here dont seem to like it if you look how many ppl arei high sec ve low/0.0)
they also dont like it when the company running the game says harden the **** up when they express their concerns


Most PVPcenttric games on the market are based on nonconsentual PVP. You consent by logging in and spawning on the map.

I don't recall CCP telling anyone to HTFU when they expressed a legitimate concern.

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Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#142 - 2012-04-17 17:57:57 UTC
I've been podded twice, once was because I was making a try into low sec.

The second time I got podded, it could have ended up very badly and me pissed off. I was traveling through Hek in my shuttle, nothing in it, when I popped and podded by a Goon. Not biggie, I had a clone.

The problem that REALLY scared me was when I respawned in a station, it was a 0.3 station with 3 low sec jumps back to Hek.

Why the F*** did I get respawned decently far into low sec with no access to a medical bay to create another clone and only a rookie ship to pilot myself back out?!

I have no idea how I would have handled getting podded yet again and losing SP.

Speaking of which... Since I can only have one medical clone and I could respawn at a station without a medical bay, how do I keep my losing SP if I'm being camped?
Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2012-04-17 18:05:08 UTC
Basically, this is why:
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad113/Byodood/f.png

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.
Invincible Space Hero
Descendant Command
#144 - 2012-04-17 18:10:06 UTC
Akiyo XI wrote:

because games are suppose to be FUN


No, they are not supposed to be "FUN". Lolcats are supposed to be "FUN", ha ha.

They are meant to provide challenge, entertainment, escape from daily routines, drama, excitement, adrenaline, reward your creativity, serve sound beatings that make you want come back stronger, and drown you in the sweet nectar of victory.

I wouldn't have it any other way.
scooter Kondur
Doomheim
#145 - 2012-04-17 18:19:08 UTC
Matrix Operator wrote:
I don't get it. The most beautiful graphics in the industry, a great storyline with great lore, and the lure of space, and Eve only gets 300k subscribers even after 10 tens of work. Some company makes an MMOPG with dancing Elves and ponies and it peaks at 9mil subscribers...

It can't be that wizard/fantasy is more popular than space-sci-fi. Aren't Star Wars and Star Trek proof that space-fiction has the larger following (as opposed to say, Lord of the Rings). And if so, why would 9mil players play with Elves, but only 1/30th of that choose sexy spacegraphics.

I don't get it. Can someone explain it to me?



the biggest problems as i see it are goons, know it alls, spam bots, the sun and the word moist, and possibly whiners but im not convinced of that, if someone could do something about these groups im sure eve would be muchmore attractive
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2012-04-17 18:35:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie-A Tassik
Elena Melkan wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Here goes...this is for me personally, by the way.

1. Slow training/leveling speed. Yes, I realize this is a slow paced game, and you set long term goals and blah blah blah. But in a nutshell what it means is that it will take most people months before they can start having any fun/making serious ISK. Yes, yes, I know, you can PvP on day one and all that bull. Create a new character with 500 SP, put him in a frigate and go PvP against someone with 40 mil SP in a well-fitted AF and let me know how that goes for ya...

...

Very good points made, the first one especially. I tend to browse through various gaming websites & forums, and often when EVE online is mentioned, people add comments like: "skill system in EVE is ********".

There are plenty of people who can't stand the fact that they can't be super-über pro's after a month of playing. In most of MMO's, you are able to grind yourself up to end levels moderately fast and after that start raiding dungeons/instances for equipment that makes your character stronger. With a small amount of time, your character can be nearly as strong as those who have played the game for years. In EVE it's not that easy. And there is always the cruel, hard fact that reminds itself whenever you see a 2005-character: there are people that have more SP than you, because they have played longer time. For many people, the fact that they cannot match in skills and epic stuff with those players that have used years to build their characters and their wallet, might be overwhelming. They want to be the best and the current skill system prevents it, at least partially.

I find it a good thing that this kind of people stay out of EVE though.


It's more extreme than that. Let's try to be honest here.

Someone wants to play a cleric in some game.

From the first few hours, they can start using their spells to heal themselves.

Eve programmers think it is cute to make whole core mechanics not available to players when they start.

First day is:
1.Log in.
2.Get enough money for a few key skillbooks.
3.Cue those skills.
4.Leave, cause doing anything else the first day is stupid unless you are just messing around.

For example, Industrials/Elite frigates.

What exactly is added to the game by making first day players log off for the 14 hours of training to get these things?

Player wants to use non-racial hybrid lasers. Has to buy skill-book.

Fortunately, nothing in the tutorials that I could see explain buying skillbooks on the market.

Their hanger also becomes a mess because nothing in the tutorials explains containers, which they can't really buy till they have an industrial either.

Which is difficult to get if you don't realize you can fly around in your pod.

Wait, I just got distracted by the worthless instructions, didn't I?

Back to skills.

Players should start out with a much higher base set of skills. Let them CHOOSE two week worth of training at start up. This is simple, and doesn't effect long term game issues at all.

In fact, I'm sure it was suggested by some poor bastard with more brains than sense.

Then CCP Soundwave and the other Lete began the hooting cries of "Lete! Lete! Lete!"

Instead, the idiot solution of removing the learning skills, which fixes nothing, was implemented.

Bring learning skills back and give every new character a free two weeks of training in skills they choose on start up.

Also, all EXISTING skills should be listed in the skill trainer by default. Not just the ones injected.

Of course, that is more a worthless UI issue.

In conclusion, after you get past the first month of being able to do little, Eve's skill system is okay.

But the first month is ********. This is easily fixed by adding free points in character creation.

Let the screams of Lete! Lete! Lete! begin.
Dr Silkworth
#147 - 2012-04-17 18:37:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Silkworth
No swords. Something about swinging and bashing. When people **** me off i want to hit them not shoot them. Don't get me wrong, I like to shoot rocks and tin targets but shooting people is not socially acceptable but beating them with a sledgehammer? nice.

Spaceships with swords anyone? My new impairor has some interesting new appendages.

Oh I agree with above psoter about noob skills. 2 week free trial is all used up just getting to where you used to start out.

Before CQ, the character creation was much more role play, I liked reading the descriptions and picking bloodlines and such. Some real thought went into making a character you could connect with whether it was just like you or how you felt or who you wanted to be.

Oh, I have to admit I played a dozen level of WOW because of a CCP commercial actually. I liked the sword :) and my character felt more like who i wanted him to be.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#148 - 2012-04-17 18:38:56 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Jumpgate came out in 2001


and jumpgate: evolution imploded

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2012-04-17 18:42:13 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Matrix Operator wrote:
I don't get it. The most beautiful graphics in the industry, a great storyline with great lore, and the lure of space, and Eve only gets 300k subscribers even after 10 tens of work. Some company makes an MMOPG with dancing Elves and ponies and it peaks at 9mil subscribers...

It can't be that wizard/fantasy is more popular than space-sci-fi. Aren't Star Wars and Star Trek proof that space-fiction has the larger following (as opposed to say, Lord of the Rings). And if so, why would 9mil players play with Elves, but only 1/30th of that choose sexy spacegraphics.

I don't get it. Can someone explain it to me?


Because the Lete programmers think it is super intelligent to not explain one single thing in game.

They then put up the useless Evelopedia, which is about as poor an explanation as possible as well.

Why did my Cruiser miss those Frigates? What?

How do I scan?

WHAT?!!! I can Jettison Ore and pick it up in an Industrial? There weren't any instruction for that.

Then they cancel, cause they can't handle the Lete "Never explain anything ever" of Eve.



Thats true, but then here comes in another aspect of EVE wich I find succesful, the comunity. Its pretty easy to go out and ask questions and a bunch of people will jump and try to help.

True, that demands some initiative. If a player restricts itself to the interface and solo discovery, it probably wont end well.

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#150 - 2012-04-17 18:45:46 UTC
Serge Bastana wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Ban Bindy wrote:
Just read the forums and you'll know why this game is small and likely to get smaller. The game is designed to encourage theft, betrayal, player scamming, abuse of new players, and outright bullying. This is called a "sandbox" by the people who like it. In other words, forget any idea of decency or community in this game.
…and yet, it has been growing and only keeps on growing. It also pretty consistently wins rewards for having the best community.

Of course, there are always those who have a hard time separating the game from real life, and who call people “sociopaths” for playing the game according to its rules (kind of like calling people sociopaths for building hotels in Monopoly), and it's not so strange that those people also can't separate the gameplay conceit and the community that enjoys that kind of gaming environment.


It's far to easy for people to experience the disassociation and lack of empathy that some mistake for being a sociopath when online, most communication it via dry text and we all have avatars that show no emotions and disconnect the real person from their online presence.

I find it amusing that so many throw the word sociopath around when it bears little relation to the person behind the character. You don't hate an actor that plays a really despicable bad guy in a film, you hate the character, that's the step you need to take with games like EVE too, we can play the good and bad guys because in the end it's only pixels, a bit of fun, generally nothing personal. If you get blown up you're just a name on a killmail or in local chat, you may never encounter that character again and they'll be just a face in the crowd by the next day.

In the end it's just a game that allows people to play a character, whether that be a hero or villain, or in many cases a bit of both. It's all just pixels and we sit behind an avatar that removes that connection and thus absolves the conscience of having done any real harm. I blow your pixel up, you blow mine up, who cares in the end, that's part of the game, it doesn't make either of us a cold hearted sociopath out to wreck someone's day.


I think thats because in every MMO Ive ever played -- before you reply note that -- the people that active role play are made fun of and oscractized. Ive never SEEN this game played up as a RPG ever until someone got banned "for rping" (I think ythats crap, I think he and his hubris thought he was untouchable and could do as he pleased and then bloamed it on the booze, blamed it on the rp..... etc etc etc ever since) and now everyone's all about this rich RP culture EVE suddenly has

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#151 - 2012-04-17 18:48:35 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:


3) EVE has never been stagnant, its player base has increased every year since it went gold. It has also grow from a handful of guys to a company employing hundreds of people, which equals successful and growing in anybodys book.


so all the graph thrown around during the summer were wrong? they showed a plateau and that was a large part of the shoot the statue guys' argument

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Dr Silkworth
#152 - 2012-04-17 18:49:51 UTC
Ugh
Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2012-04-17 18:50:27 UTC
Rekon X wrote:


You sit and watch an sp counter tick by so you can 'train'.



But thats what makes this game great.

You dont need to grind skills. "kill 10 of this, kill 20 of that, baam, master hunter achieved!...."

You just need to play.

If to play is to you grinding skills, then it certainly isnt a fun activity.

If your play is to pvp, pve and play the market, its wonderful.

But granted, early game sucks.

CCP could work a little the SP thing, giving ways to players accelerate it somewhat, like droped boosters in complexes working like faction items on a loot table. That would be interesting.

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#154 - 2012-04-17 18:52:09 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:


And some people take drunken jokes too seriously. Blink


or not seriously enough given that he wasnt permabanned like Id expect to be if I tried to goad someone into suicide

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2012-04-17 18:52:23 UTC
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


3) EVE has never been stagnant, its player base has increased every year since it went gold. It has also grow from a handful of guys to a company employing hundreds of people, which equals successful and growing in anybodys book.


so all the graph thrown around during the summer were wrong? they showed a plateau and that was a large part of the shoot the statue guys' argument

You mean the one that people were interpreting incorrectly that showed a minor lull in population which was likely due to the fact that it was SUMMER?!

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Dr Silkworth
#156 - 2012-04-17 18:53:28 UTC
The whole MMO market has leveled off. WOW throws out 300000 accounts a month. EVE is purging bots. These cut into profits so it lookslike MMO's might be seeing the writing on the wall to me.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#157 - 2012-04-17 18:55:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigurd Sig Hansen
Ranger 1 wrote:

I don't recall CCP telling anyone to HTFU when they expressed a legitimate concern.


like I said

"legitimate" is the key there. Those new players express concerns you dont think are legitimate and wqhen theyre told HTFU OR GTFO

they take your advice and GTFO

you only really have yourself to blame

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#158 - 2012-04-17 18:57:56 UTC
To simplify.

New players should be allowed to start out with a certain amount of SP in skills they select. Equal to about two weeks or a month of training time.

This has no real effect on balance, but stops the idiot "have to log off till I get Level 3 of X so I can get Level 1 of X and even equip the *bleep* module.

That seven hour log off does nothing but *bleep* people off big.
LocalHost
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#159 - 2012-04-17 18:58:39 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
LocalHost wrote:


The only useful point to CCP I'd add would be that I do firmly believe they could open the game up a bit more and gain many for subs if there was a mechanic to allow folks to explore "lawless" space without the current status quo that dictates you really need to be in a Corp and in most cases and Alliance to be able to "settle down". Yeah, I know, wormholes kinda give that impression, but nothing feels like I know I felt back in 2004 when Pure Blind was lawless and being settled, and you could find yourself a ton of stuff to do in your shiny new Caracal. I'll get shouted down by those that say adapt or die, and I'd respond that I have adapted, having pretty much experienced everything Eve has to offer, career wise.


It's not that you'll get "shouted down", it's that you'll get an explaination that you may not like.


All good points for sure, and I agree with what you're saying. I certainly don't mind if I don't like the responses, I tend to view it as a "getting something that improves the game for others in some way even if it doesn't necessarily benefit me, or in fact makes things more difficult for me in some way".

I suppose it's really down to what CCP's intent is moreso than any of our opinions. They have goals that were set out to make Eve what they felt was a good game, and by any measure, they've been successful even with the warts that come with growing.

That said, even the most "stable" games need new blood infused every now and then, and Eve is no different. I mean, how long has Counter Strike been around (I put that down 10 years ago myself, too old/slow reflexes on my part) and the faces you see today largely are different than 10 years ago, yet, it is still arguably a vibrant game.

It may be that Eve doesn't really need to have some wildly popular change that makes it's mass appeal improve. As long as CCP continues to refine the game, it will be around for quite some time.

Localhost
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#160 - 2012-04-17 19:01:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigurd Sig Hansen
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


3) EVE has never been stagnant, its player base has increased every year since it went gold. It has also grow from a handful of guys to a company employing hundreds of people, which equals successful and growing in anybodys book.


so all the graph thrown around during the summer were wrong? they showed a plateau and that was a large part of the shoot the statue guys' argument

You mean the one that people were interpreting incorrectly that showed a minor lull in population which was likely due to the fact that it was SUMMER?!


the word you were looking for was "yes" lol

in which case:

lol CCP caved cause ppl read a graph wrong were leaving so the company changed their entire direction

What happened to HTFU

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game