These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

TPs and Rigors on Ravens... Overkill?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Edward Longshanx
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#1 - 2012-04-17 04:40:17 UTC
I'm a 10mil SP char focused on Caldari and missiles, and I have been running around in a brick Drake for a while and a Tengu for about a month, but now I want to make the upgrade to BS-level stuff. I looked into some Raven fits online to see what people were putting together, and I noticed that a lot of people use TPs and Rigor rigs to get their Cruise Missiles to hit cruisers (irony) better.

Only thing is, I noticed some people would fit out Rigors x3 and a TP, which even with only level 4 missile/TP skills is way overkill. By my math (and with EFTs help), assuming straight level 4 skills, a single T1 Rigor rig gets my cruises to a ~200 explosion radius, and a RF TP (again with skills) increases a ship's sig radius ~37%. Seeing as how most cruisers are in the 140-150 sig radius area, that combined with the TP puts their radius right around 200, equal with the missile. And that still leaves two rigs slots open for other things.

But I never saw anyone complain about the fits online with Rigors x3 and a TP. I am still at the SP level where I still learn new things, but I thought I had a handle on missiles and target painters and how they work. Am I crazy? Am I missing something? Are they actually trying to hit frigs with their missiles, even with the crazy slow explosion velocity? Little help would be appreciated.
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#2 - 2012-04-17 04:46:54 UTC
Why would you downgrade from a Tengu to a Battleship that makes you stay aligned?
Tengu is better for many reasons.

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#3 - 2012-04-17 04:54:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
What you're missing is the missile damage formula. The long and short of it is that the lower you can push your explosion radius, the more you can overcome a slow explosion velocity. It is almost universally better to fit rigors for this purpose than flares.

-Liang

Ed: Also, please try it in Eve instead of in EFT. :)

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Alara IonStorm
#4 - 2012-04-17 04:54:53 UTC
Edward Longshanx wrote:
Am I crazy? Am I missing something?

I use an SNI with 3 Rigors and a Painter. I use it for Fury Missiles which do full Damage to Battleships. They are a lot cheaper then faction ammo and with the painter and Rigors do more Damage to Battleships then faction.

Cruise Missiles 2 Shot all Cruisers and Battlecruisers which is what faction ammo does anyway while Elite Cruisers go down in three shots. Since I kill all Battleships in a group it's a 10 second reload before I can use the highest damage ammo.

Without the painter Furies do the same Damage as T1 Cruises so it is essential to using them.
Edward Longshanx
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#5 - 2012-04-17 05:04:09 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Edward Longshanx wrote:
Am I crazy? Am I missing something?

I use an SNI with 3 Rigors and a Painter. I use it for Fury Missiles which do full Damage to Battleships. They are a lot cheaper then faction ammo and with the painter and Rigors do more Damage to Battleships then faction.


Aha, that makes sense. Using T2 cheaper missiles instead of faction, and yeah, those T2 cruises have crazy high radius.

Liang Nuren wrote:
What you're missing is the missile damage formula. The long and short of it is that the lower you can push your explosion radius, the more you can overcome a slow explosion velocity. It is almost universally better to fit rigors for this purpose than flares.

-Liang

Ed: Also, please try it in Eve instead of in EFT. :)


That is interesting. Avoid flares in the future, check. Also, I'd try it in Eve, but I am a huge sucker for getting my skills to a decent level before even trying something. I didn't even hop in the Tengu until around 8.5mil SP.

Tarn Kugisa wrote:
Why would you downgrade from a Tengu to a Battleship that makes you stay aligned?
Tengu is better for many reasons.


It certainly is. It also costs a pretty penny, and on the off chance my T2 fitted vanilla Raven gets scrammed and popped (which should never happen with preparation and decent tank of course), I can afford to replace it. The Tengu... well, let's just say I'm not sitting on billions of ISK... yet...
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#6 - 2012-04-17 05:10:23 UTC
Edward Longshanx wrote:


It certainly is. It also costs a pretty penny, and on the off chance my T2 fitted vanilla Raven gets scrammed and popped (which should never happen with preparation and decent tank of course), I can afford to replace it. The Tengu... well, let's just say I'm not sitting on billions of ISK... yet...



If I believe that I might loose my ship when ratting, I pull out my Nice, Cheap Rokh.
When I need DPS and Tanky, I pull out my surprisingly 'cheap' Tengu. Only things non-T2 should be the Shield Boosters, which I run 2x Pithii Deadspace B-Type, which run about 75 Mil apiece.

I had to farm L4's for my Tengu. Now, If I actually stopped spending ISK, I'd probably have a billion or two from loot. (And I could PvP in Tengu'sPirate

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#7 - 2012-04-17 05:14:23 UTC
Edward Longshanx wrote:

That is interesting. Avoid flares in the future, check. Also, I'd try it in Eve, but I am a huge sucker for getting my skills to a decent level before even trying something. I didn't even hop in the Tengu until around 8.5mil SP.


I should mention that only holds true for guided missiles. Rigors don't do anything for unguided missiles (Rockets, HAM, Torps, Cit Torps).

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Edward Longshanx
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#8 - 2012-04-17 06:03:52 UTC
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
Edward Longshanx wrote:


It certainly is. It also costs a pretty penny, and on the off chance my T2 fitted vanilla Raven gets scrammed and popped (which should never happen with preparation and decent tank of course), I can afford to replace it. The Tengu... well, let's just say I'm not sitting on billions of ISK... yet...



If I believe that I might loose my ship when ratting, I pull out my Nice, Cheap Rokh.
When I need DPS and Tanky, I pull out my surprisingly 'cheap' Tengu. Only things non-T2 should be the Shield Boosters, which I run 2x Pithii Deadspace B-Type, which run about 75 Mil apiece.

I had to farm L4's for my Tengu. Now, If I actually stopped spending ISK, I'd probably have a billion or two from loot. (And I could PvP in Tengu'sPirate


I made an alt relatively early in my career, and it really helped with cash generation. I soloed a lot of C2 WHs in my drake with a cloaked noctis eating the sites behind me, and I did a lot of high sec scanning with the alt in a Probe and my main in a drake, and got lucky with a few drops (Invuln fields, C-type boosters, etc). Then I made a Tengu and tried null scanning... and got popped. I now respect (perhaps over-respect) its price.

But yeah, tengus can run pretty cheap with just T2s and a faction booster, I might try that too.

Thanks for the info regarding the OP everyone.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#9 - 2012-04-17 06:38:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
I run 2x Pithii Deadspace B-Type, which run about 75 Mil apiece.


Either there's been a major market adjustment or you need to double check something there....

Edit: ~170mil for the B-types. ~75mil for the C-types.
Niko Takahashi
Yoshitomi Group
#10 - 2012-04-17 11:57:13 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
What you're missing is the missile damage formula. The long and short of it is that the lower you can push your explosion radius, the more you can overcome a slow explosion velocity. It is almost universally better to fit rigors for this purpose than flares.

-Liang

Ed: Also, please try it in Eve instead of in EFT. :)


After doing both I can say it is correct.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-04-18 12:20:20 UTC
Edward Longshanx wrote:
stuff



T2 fitted Tengu is the way to go, you will have a decent dps 450/500 witch is enough to clean DED6 alone.
Faction/dead space Tengu fits exist because some players (a lot in fact) have far too much isk so a 3B fit might as well be a standard for them but in fact it isn't at all.

A fully effective T2 Tengu fit will require you many many lvl5 skills so, eventually buy only a Dead space SB, it will help and it's price is relatively acceptable.