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[Suggestion] +1 attribute point awarded after 1 year's worth of game time (Like Bonus remaps)
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#21 - 2012-04-16 22:28:37 UTC
Thats another thing bitter rookies vs rookies looking forward to the perk.

The same could be said about the new remaps that get issued to you.

Now the problem with +1 attributes is the gapening effect, and its going to be seriously bad if we give it reto issued to the 9 year vets in eve. Now if we all started clean slate and clock starts now. It may not be that bad but youll have more bitter vets at first than bitter rookies but as time moves on youll wind up with the migration.

I'll mull over more additional rewards as I get other things done Ill see what I can come up with that would be favorable for vets and not bitter inducing for rooks.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
RosieRotaru
F.R.A. Corp
#22 - 2012-04-17 01:17:53 UTC  |  Edited by: RosieRotaru
Looking at the replies, I was not expecting everyone to be stating that the extra attribute points would widen the SP difference between old and new players. But I can understand the viewpoints that everyone has brought so far. I APPRECIATE the feedback you have all given.

If the SP widening effect is indeed the main cause for concern, then why do we players of EVE Online have IMPLANTS to begin with? Since the SP widening effect as you all state in your replies functions essentially the same within the very implants we buy, sell and implant into the characters we make.
To be honest, in reflection, the suggestion of additional attribute points would essentially become a Non-implant variation of attribute enhancement.

The only main factor to consider is TIME. How late a player starts within the EVE universe appears to be the only concern brought up.
The argument of bitter rookies vs vets has been ongoing for a long time and rookies will ALWAYS be bitter towards vets.
Once a rookie puts enough time and effort into the game, they get to be just as good as the vets were at that level of progress.

Heck, I recognize that there maybe players out there with over 400 million SP. I am only just approaching 29 million SP.
Am I bitter? No. I'm playing the game.
RosieRotaru
F.R.A. Corp
#23 - 2012-04-17 01:28:09 UTC  |  Edited by: RosieRotaru
Another thing I wanted to bring to you attention is the fact that skills only use 2 of the main attribute areas (Such as Intelligence, Memory, Charisma, Perception and Willpower).

Meaning that even if you was to max out all of your attribute points, you would only receive a benefit of +6 attribute points added to the training time of that specific skill (Since you'd only get +20 instead of +14)

I do like the idea of having to use up a remap in order to place the attribute point.
As well as adding an additional year for every subsequent point awarded (Such as +1 after 1 year, then +1 after 2 years, then +1 after 3 years and so forth).
I also like the idea that vets should not get the FULL amount of points awarded. Maybe half of the amount of points they would've earned.

But at the end of the day, this suggestion does not completely mean that vets will be able to strap on a MicroWarpdrive to their SP training times. It just means that as they progress, the need for remaps will decrease.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-04-17 02:32:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kusum Fawn
RosieRotaru wrote:
Looking at the replies, I was not expecting everyone to be stating that the extra attribute points would widen the SP difference between old and new players. But I can understand the viewpoints that everyone has brought so far. I APPRECIATE the feedback you have all given.

If the SP widening effect is indeed the main cause for concern, then why do we players of EVE Online have IMPLANTS to begin with? Since the SP widening effect as you all state in your replies functions essentially the same within the very implants we buy, sell and implant into the characters we make.
To be honest, in reflection, the suggestion of additional attribute points would essentially become a Non-implant variation of attribute enhancement.

The only main factor to consider is TIME. How late a player starts within the EVE universe appears to be the only concern brought up.
The argument of bitter rookies vs vets has been ongoing for a long time and rookies will ALWAYS be bitter towards vets.
Once a rookie puts enough time and effort into the game, they get to be just as good as the vets were at that level of progress.

Heck, I recognize that there maybe players out there with over 400 million SP. I am only just approaching 29 million SP.
Am I bitter? No. I'm playing the game.


The subject of when a player joins eve is coming up because its a time based stat addition. so that's one of the concerns what will come up often. It is a fairly obvious one when you consider the way one gets this attribute buff.

I quoted this post because it has the part about implants. Everyone has access to implants, +4 implants (the standard use ones) are 20 million each on most markets. People generally plug in 4 because charisma isnt that useful. but, it is available to everyone.

This new attribute buff is only on year long players, and it adds after that, why you want this im not sure, you surely must understand that many older players already have +4 or +5 implants in their heads, on at least one of their jump clones at least.
Why adding this new attribute point wont increase the gap between vets and noobs is kinda beyond me, i guess because your reasoning is that vets will be training capital skills and thus not be in competition with noobs? I dont understand where it is you are coming from on this.

RosieRotaru wrote:
Meaning that even if you was to max out all of your attribute points, you would only receive a benefit of +6 attribute points added to the training time of that specific skill (Since you'd only get +20 instead of +14)

I do like the idea of having to use up a remap in order to place the attribute point.
As well as adding an additional year for every subsequent point awarded (Such as +1 after 1 year, then +1 after 2 years, then +1 after 3 years and so forth).
I also like the idea that vets should not get the FULL amount of points awarded. Maybe half of the amount of points they would've earned.


But why add this at all? you recognize that it has logistical problems, it doesn't serve noobs any better then it serves vets. and im not sure it even serves vets that well. back when we had learning skills, i got the second tier to 4 and stopped there, a friend of mine got his to all 5's. about a 4months before they cleared the learning skills from the game , he passed my main in sp. we both had +4's and rarely got podded, replaced implants after pod, keep skills running etc, cept he started playing a full year after i did, i started in 2008, him in 2009.

Course i have another friend , who started 6 months before me, and has ~3/4 the sp i have (im not 100% sure how many he has now). he never trained learnings or used implants. Getting to the game first shouldn't give you extra bonuses. and choices you make in game affect your outcomes.

Higher base attributes do matter. and they mattered a lot more before the learning skill changes and the neural remaps. since you have remaps, you tend to train things faster then i ever did before. and you dont have to plan as much, the impacts are less for you. It also will mean that every year ill still be training faster then you with every remap. you want a wider gap in sp?
RosieRotaru wrote:

But at the end of the day, this suggestion does not completely mean that vets will be able to strap on a MicroWarpdrive to their SP training times. It just means that as they progress, the need for remaps will decrease.

remaps are already a perk, and you are right, its not a mwd, its more like a deadspace ab.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
RosieRotaru
F.R.A. Corp
#25 - 2012-04-26 19:15:48 UTC  |  Edited by: RosieRotaru
I'm given this idea some thought and I think I might have come up with a far more "manageable" way for this idea to work.

1:) Everyone starts from scratch.
This means that vets don't get the buff immediately and only start at the same time as the rookies.

2:) Players must be active for 12 months to gain the attribute point.
This means if you play for 11 months, don't play for a month, you have to play an extra month to get the attribute point.

3:) If you are podded, you lose 1 attribute point
This means that if you gain 5 attribute points for playing for 5 years and you get podded, you lose 1 attribute point and are brought down to 4. If you are podded a further 5 times, you will only lose the remaining 4 attribute points you have gained and it will not be taken out of the base amount of 14 points.

4:) Max limit of 6 attributes points awarded.
This means you don't completely max out the points and you still require remaps to place points into the other sections.
Ai Shun
#26 - 2012-04-26 22:26:39 UTC
RosieRotaru wrote:
5:) At the start of year 7, all attributes points gained are "erased".
This means in a basic sense that at the beginning of year 7, all 6 points you have gained are "reset" due to a "malfunction" within the implant section of your brain, this means that the points are not permanent and effectively resets the vets back to the same level as rookies.
Think of it as like the cycle time on weapons/shields/hardeners.

6:) Players get 60 million ISK in "Medical Compensation" for losing the 6 attribute points.
As a way of compensating a player for losing the 6 attribute points, players are effectively awarded 10 million ISK for every attribute point lost. This does NOT mean you can buy the points back. This is very much in the same vein as being paid the insurance on your ship after its been blown up.
Also, if you lose the attribute points by getting podded, you will NOT be "compensated".


Your first 4 points worked well. Points 5 and 6 just don't.

5. Why? Why remove a benefit you so clearly want to give players?
6. Don't introduce free ISK into the game, even if it is a minor amount. It is not needed.

Just cap your addition at 4.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#27 - 2012-04-26 22:34:48 UTC
I think there are better ways to award long play time..

Personally I think something like a non limited skill queue would be more relevant.. When all you have left are those terribly long skills the queue is useless.

Maybe say everyone got upgraded skill queue at certain days of play time..

Also another thing, would say those veteran account that your most likely talking about should get free to play on their account if character had had 10 years anniversary. (They would just open a second, third or more accounts anyways, so no real loss to ccp)

I dont like ingame direct favoritism. Mostly support things like clothing from FF, and those gimmick items like the apop shuttle and similar..
Liliana Rahl
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#28 - 2012-04-26 22:38:04 UTC
Get out.
RosieRotaru
F.R.A. Corp
#29 - 2012-04-26 23:19:13 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
RosieRotaru wrote:
5:) At the start of year 7, all attributes points gained are "erased".
This means in a basic sense that at the beginning of year 7, all 6 points you have gained are "reset" due to a "malfunction" within the implant section of your brain, this means that the points are not permanent and effectively resets the vets back to the same level as rookies.
Think of it as like the cycle time on weapons/shields/hardeners.

6:) Players get 60 million ISK in "Medical Compensation" for losing the 6 attribute points.
As a way of compensating a player for losing the 6 attribute points, players are effectively awarded 10 million ISK for every attribute point lost. This does NOT mean you can buy the points back. This is very much in the same vein as being paid the insurance on your ship after its been blown up.
Also, if you lose the attribute points by getting podded, you will NOT be "compensated".


Your first 4 points worked well. Points 5 and 6 just don't.

5. Why? Why remove a benefit you so clearly want to give players?
6. Don't introduce free ISK into the game, even if it is a minor amount. It is not needed.

Just cap your addition at 4.


I will definitely remove number 6, number 5 I will remove begrudgingly, only because I wanted to put across another method that vets could lose their attribute points so they could be more on par with rookies. (A lot of people have noted about an SP gain between rookies and vets.)
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